Taylor/China LB7: Suck

The 110 is 1/4 " shorter in the handle than the LB7. When open there is less than an 1/8" difference in the knives. Both are great knives. I like my 110's converted to auto's which for some reason was not done to the LB7's. Anyone know why?
Im looking for a dual action 110 which have just started becoming available.
TTYL
Larry
 
Believe it or not, I don't even own a Buck 110. Don't care if I ever do to tell the truth. I'm just fed up with blatant design theft in this industry. It's rampant and obviously it was here long before I even got interested in the hobby. As you mentioned, the LB7 has been out for many years.

One famous designer, not too long ago, right on these forums related how fed up he was with the "buddy buddy" attitude of these design pirates at knife shows. When they see you face to face it's all nicey but behind your back they're ripping your ideas off faster than a wildcat dipped in gasoline. And all you can do is either shut up or get a lawyer for 800 an hour. When privately confronted these guys just explain that it's "business". This came from a very successful knife designer that posts here on BF.com.

Why didn't Buck take Schrade to task on the LB7? Who knows. Maybe the budget didn't allow for the legal fees. Even if they would have "won" some other company could have just started cranking them out. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where the "inspiration" for the LB7 came from. The tang stamp is different. Other than that.....hmmmm..... :grumpy:
 
Carl64 said:
You are obviously referring to me, but also mis-quoting me. I'm not going to bother arguing with you any more if you are going to try to change the intent of my words so you can then make pointless statements of disapproval. Your first post in this thread was off topic anyway, trying to change it from a discussion about the chinese LB7 to your decades-old grudge about the 110 vs other similar knives.
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Actually it was Codger's recently deleted post I was referring to. He was the one that was trying to make it sound like the subtle differences in the handle shape was enough to consider the LB7 a "different" design, which is truly hilarious. But alas, putting an end to this argument sounds like a good idea anyhow. This is all common knowledge stuff. Cheers.
 
Bite me!:D Your touting a twenty dollar chinee knife as being the be-all end-all is enough for me. Cheers.
 
There's nothing unique about the LB7 or 110, all they both are is a roughly 5'' handled lockback folding hunter, of which dozens of companies have been making since the turn of the 19th century. Both are good knives, well the American made LB7 was anyway. Buck's design happened to be popular and sell very well, partly upon Buck's reputation of quality. I hate to be unpopular with the Schrade collectors, but until they were gone, Schrade was always regarded as a low cost everyman's working knife, not a collectible piece. Actually, most Bucks are also. Among the folding hunter patterns, what's the difference in all of them really? Mostly handle shapes, whether it's the clasp style, bowback style, swell center, Coke bottle, whatever. Buck did NOT invent nor perfect this style of knife, but they did popularize it. Design thievery? How could Schrade be accused of design thievery, when building a pattern that had already been in production and popular for over a hundred years? Buck did not build a unique patented one of a kind knife pattern that had never existed before in the annals of cutlery history. Case, Camilllus, Remington, Winchester, and dozens of old line knife makers turned out similiar knives LONG before Buck ever drew up the 110 blueprints. Schrade made good knives, Buck still does, pick one ya'll like and buy one or more. What the heck, buy a Case too, the Mako and Sharktooth are very similiar to all these others. But don't be silly accusing the makers of copycatting, study some knife history: you'll find out quickly that there is very very little new or inventive in the cutlery world, as the largest majority of the knife patterns and designs are over a century old already.
 
Your touting a twenty dollar chinee knife as being the be-all end-all is enough for me. Cheers.
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That's not the point and you know it. I was talking about honor. The Crossbill is a good knife but it is what it is, ON IT'S OWN MERITS. A twenty dollar knife that actually packs some cutting power and wasn't ripped off from someone else's catalog. All the while having excellent ergos and a strong lock.

As for a "real" knife I prefer (and carry) a Military.

But for real, this argument is getting nowhere. Losing Schrade, even with all their faults, was a disaster for the American knife scene. I was just as floored as the next guy. But let's not pretend. The LB7 was not an "in house" design. A refinement of someone else's design, maybe. But regardless, they're now being cranked out in some Chinaman's basement for a few pennies apiece. Buck better get something together quickly. Some kind of attraction. Better blade steel. Different handle materiel. Something.

Non knife people aren't going to continue to pay thirty plus dollars for a knife they can get for fifteen.
 
You may have a point Phil. Upon reflection that's probably the reason one company couldn't (or wouldn't) take the other to task. It may have been considered too "generic" of a design.
 
Schrades were indeed a working mans knife and were made as a good user tool sold a fair price made by americans. Of course it is often forgotten but Schrade was 100 when she died. Much of the earlier knives ( Schrade Cuts and Schrade Waldens) in cell pearl ect have been considered as quite collectable for a long time. Buck makes a decent knife Schrade made a decent knife I preferred Schrades but I am prejudiced but at least I admit it. I do not see how either of these knives can be compared to the chinese junk that is in question. However to each his own and while I do understand giving a new product a fair evaluation to be honest even if they were great I would not want to purchase the chinese variety. I do not support products from governments whos values and beliefs are against everything this country is supposed to stand for and have sworn to eliminate us and our beliefs from the face of the planet. I believe that is still my right at least for a while.

I think I have found a possible answer to the leather ( sheath question ) ie. To quote Ricardo Montaban alias Khan, in the wrath of Khan star trek 2 ( I think it was 2 ) . If you recall he used to sell ( we have discussed this before ) a car called the CORDOBA it had corinthian leather seats ( ie plastic ). Could this be a dirivative of the hide being used for these sheaths or perhapes a new herd of the infamous Naugha may have been found as we all know this animals Hide is also quite similar.

As I recall dimly wasen't the Buck 303 actually made by Schrade. Perhapes I am wrong ( it is only by memory and not important enough to look up ). If so apparently Buck had learned to recognize a better product and just decided to let Schrade make them instead of trying to compete with them. It takes a smart out fit to realize when a company makes a better product than they can and just buys them on contract from there competitor.

In the words of Rodney King " Why caint we all just get along " . LT
 
lt632ret said:
I do not support products from governments whos values and beliefs are against everything this country is supposed to stand for and have sworn to eliminate us and our beliefs from the face of the planet. I believe that is still my right at least for a while.
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Amen LT!
Those of us who were in Vietnam dodged too many chinee made bullets & rockets for me to feel right about buying a knife from them. I actually own a 5UH that is chinee, bought on ebay. It taught me a real lesson in CAREFULLY reading the description. To the sellers credit it was there, I just missed it. The knife is still in a box in the bottom of a box or drawer or somewhere, I think. Kinda lost track of it. Maybe some day I will find someone I dislike enough to give it to, perhaps a politician. :mad:
 
You know contrary to popular opinion I believe that there are honest politicians. I have seen them. However I have never seen or met one that was still alive. LT
 
Welcome to the forum, Harry.

I suppose your favorite brand of blade is OK. But in case you're new to knives, here are what a few real ones look like. I only went back 50 years for some of these, if needed, one of our members can show you some samples of the 50 years before that. My point is:

Knives of this caliber inspire passion in a collector. In a hundred years from now, these knives will be in someone elses hands, and they will be just as revered and valued as they are today. The name (and knives of) Schrade (Geo. Schrade, Schrade Cutlery, Schrade Walden, Imperial-Schrade) will most likely be even more respected and highly thought of.

Phil
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I think Harry would do well to re read Phil In Alabama's post. While all this was going on I was wondering just where and WHEN the 110 design was developed. About all I am ready to admit is that Buck made the first 110, that was designated the 110 and I think they still make the only designated 110. Since I am a sheathmaker, I pay close attention to which knives are similar as they will all fit a single design sheath. Using the 110 as a bench mark, there must be 12 or 15 very close variations of lock back knives in ths category from as many different companies. I don't know which of these companies was first with the similar design, but there is a good chance it wasn't Buck. That's it for this thread for me. See you all somewhere else.

Paul
 
Harry Callahan said:
Actually it was Codger's recently deleted post I was referring to. He was the one that was trying to make it sound like the subtle differences in the handle shape was enough to consider the LB7 a "different" design, which is truly hilarious. But alas, putting an end to this argument sounds like a good idea anyhow. This is all common knowledge stuff. Cheers.
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Harry, the lockback is a pattern, its been around since the 19th century in one form or another. The Buck 110, and all the other lockbacks in the stable, are merely pattern refinements also. When Buck's model became all the rage in the 60's every US and most import makers came up with a lockback folder variation to take advantage of market demand. Buck did not invent the lockback design, they refined it.

If you look at recent knife trends, the biggest one is the one hand tactical folder. With the exception of some lock designs (Axis, compression,etc.) the knives themslves are all just pattern variations. Heck, in order to make my 7OT a tactical lockback all I have to do is add a One Armed Bandit. If I do this am I ripping someone off? Or even just being a copycat? Not likely.

Please dig a little into the history of cutlery and try to understand trends, patterns, and who actually invented what before you ping Schrade's or any other knife brand. This forum is a good place to do that, LT is a incredible resource who REALLY knows about cutlery history.
 
reconstituted leathe ris nothing more than leather scraps glued together with latex. More than likely, without seeing any, these new sheaths are just cheap chinese tanned leather. Overdried, and poorly tanned. I use to do upholstery for many years, at dassault aviation, also for a time when I was in the AF.

The lockback is not a buck design they've been around for over 150+ years. Buck only made a design using the lock, they do not have "exclusive" rights to developing the lockback. I have both the 110 and the schrade lockbacks, and I always liked both.

We should not expect much from these chinese knockoffs using schrades name. We knew when taylor bought the rights it was going overseas. As far as buck, they already make a line of their stockmans in china, oh they still make their usa made ones, but just go to any "wally world" and you'll find a set of buck stockmans made in china.
 
Hopefully they'll think of something quickly.
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Buck better get something together quickly. Some kind of attraction. Better blade steel. Different handle materiel. Something.
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Harry, you sure care a lot about Buck for someone that doesn't own a 110. FWIW, Buck has done something. They've outsourced, and according to responses to a post I started recently over in the Buck forum, they've been doing it for years.

At my local China mart (aka Wal-mart), what took the place of the Schrade knives that were in the sporting goods display case? Buck knives! This was encouraging to me until I looked at one a couple of days ago, rolled it over in my hand, and found "CHINA" stamped into the blade.

On the leather issue, I hate reconsituted leather. I usually use Sno-seal on my leather sheaths to darken them and waterproof them in one process. Seems like the reconstituted leather (leather's answer to presswood) just won't take the Sno-seal as evenly.

Odd story about sheaths: Mike Stewart over at Bark River wasn't satisfied with some sheaths sent out with his Northstar line (I thought they were fine) and had new ones sent to any Northstar owners who sent in a small form. The new sheaths? Made overseas out of reconstituted. I couldn't figure out why BRKT went to all that trouble to send out crappier sheaths. I just use the old one.

The old Schrade sheaths weren't the greatest, but they're functional. The best sheath I ever got came with a Queen Premium Hunter fixed blade (stag/D2). That is one fine sheath.
 
Just thought I'd add. Buck has also recently moved to Idaho--a business move that should help them stay in business a while longer. I care about Buck knives as well. I own 6 110s and will buy another custom 110 once the rush of custom shop orders dies down (they just re-opened after the move). I also have a Buck 112, a Vanguard, and plan to buy a 301 Stockman. Buck makes good knives and gets a lot out of their 420HC. I hope they keep doing what they do.

I know folks, especially Buck collectors, like to say that the 110 is the most emulated knife in the world, but I think there's something to Phil's post about the commonality of this design. In the history of factory-produced folders, plenty of companies have produced knives that resemble the 110 design.

Nowadays, many such knives are made overseas. Nothing new for Buck to deal with.
 
Reconstituted leather I love it, the wave of the future. It reminds me of Hay and grain that is reconstituted when it comes out of the opposite end of which it was ingested by a horse. It should work out fine since the product it ( the sheath) will house is of the same quality. LT
 
I have a lot of respect for Buck and for their 110 folding hunter, I had a 112 for years until it was stolen, replaced with a 422 that I still have and use.

The Buck 110 is a fantastic knife, a general design that maybe did not bring any technological innovation but one that soon became very popular, big strong and reliable, there was nothing like it in the market. It was not granted a patent so anybody could make it and many many did, a ripoff ?, hard to say, I personally have mixed feelings about it. Like when someone discovered that there was a good market for a mini van and a bit later every maker came out with one.

Here's three versions of the famous folding Hunter, right to left: Puma, Schrade and Some Chinese maker. All three are good working knives, each one is in a different price range, the really bad thing to me is that the Chinese cheapo is easy to find around here while any others are not to be seen anywhere.

Luis

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Something I like about the Puma, Luis.. has the hole for your signature fob. I tried to drill a thong... er... wrist thong... hole in a 6OT once, with bad, bad results.

Phil
 
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