Taylor Cutlery...Was: Just how bad are the current Schrades?

[Esav Benyamin]

I used to joke with a friend of mine, who called himself an Antique Book Seller, that he was really an antique bookseller.

If Taylor Brands had developed a line equal in materials and fit and finush to the best of the original Schrades, and packaged it distinctively as the "new Schrade, dedicated to the memory of the great knives of the past", then collectors would have gone on collecting the originals, just as my friend's customers went on buying leather-bound, fragile-paged classics. But the new editions of the old books sell even better, and Taylor would have become a major manufacturer.

But I imagine, in their own estimation they are just that, taking their profits in smaller increments over a greater number of cheaper knives sold.

 

[knarfeng]

The only recent Schade I've bought was about two years ago. I do not remember Country Of Origin. Fit and finish was OK, but not exceptional. The edge retention was poor compared to that of a Buck 301.

 

[Sword and Shield]

Wouldn't that be the point of buying the brand? If they didn't want to trade on the Schrade name they wouldn't buy it and the patterns...

If the would use a better steel I would be tempted to buy a couple, maybe a Sharpfinger in 440c or AUS-8...

Not quite. They bought the brand, sure. However, copying the packaging so closely as to make it easy to mistake it for the US-made originals is a problem. Trade on the name is fine, but leaving the US flag on and putting the true origin in tiny print screams that they were trying to dupe the buyer.

If they changed the packaging, then I'm fine with it. Leaving the flag on is false advertising.

 

[Superdave1]

Not quite. They bought the brand, sure. However, copying the packaging so closely as to make it easy to mistake it for the US-made originals is a problem. Trade on the name is fine, but leaving the US flag on and putting the true origin in tiny print screams that they were trying to dupe the buyer.

If they changed the packaging, then I'm fine with it. Leaving the flag on is false advertising.

I don't care to buy Chinese made Taylor Schrades, but when you buy brands and trade on someones or a companies good name, it would defeat the purpose to change the packaging....leaving the flag on is not false advertising, they say made in China. If the company is American it is American....
I don't know that their intent is to dupe the buyer...they are taking advantage of economies of scale and cheap labor to bring low priced knives to the market.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

I don't care to buy Chinese made Taylor Schrades, but when you buy brands and trade on someones or a companies good name, it would defeat the purpose to change the packaging....leaving the flag on is not false advertising, they say made in China.

They bought the Schrade name with "Made in China" in small type out of sight, not the American flag.

No one is contesting their right to the name or even to manufacture knives in America. But the misrepresentation comes in making it practically impossible to distinguish between original Schrade and the new company in internet sales. Original Schrade are collectible in their own right. New Schrade haven't established themselves in that category, and if they do, they will still not be original.

 

[6.0stroker]

They bought the Schrade name with "Made in China" in small type out of sight, not the American flag.

No one is contesting their right to the name or even to manufacture knives in America. But the misrepresentation comes in making it practically impossible to distinguish between original Schrade and the new company in internet sales. Original Schrade are collectible in their own right. New Schrade haven't established themselves in that category, and if they do, they will still not be original.

Well said I THINK that us collectors have established the FACT that the old ORIGINALS are what we are after and that the "muddy" water is not much fun or right:grumpy::barf:, WHEN IT COMES, to the ORIGINAL Imperial Schrade Corp. and its derivitives and predecesors!

 

[Culpeper]

I'll have to disagree on the intent, Codger. Shortly after Taylor bought the remnants of Schrade, I found several clampacks at my local hardware store. They were the same models that store always carried- the 33OT, the 8OT and the 94OT- and the clampacks were identical down to font and the US flag mark. The sole difference was an 8-point "Made in China Taylor Brands LLC" on the back, buried under the UPC in the corner. Duplicating the original packaging that closely tells me it was wholly intentional.

I've been stuck by a modern remake on EBay. Seller listed a 125OT, new in box, "USA made" Schrade. What I got was one of the first runs of Taylor Schrades, with poor fit and finish, and missing the trademark lock. Said seller has over a 99.5% feedback rating, with over 20,000 buyers. I returned it promptly for a refund, but they still are using "USA made" in the ads.

At the very least, Taylor made it easy for their resellers to misrepresent the new Schrades. I would argue that was wholly their intent.

Well of course Taylor Brands did this. They purchased every single bit of intellectual property from the sellers' of Schrade to them. That gives Taylor the absolute right to package their products as they see fit including using all the Schrade markings, which was included in the sale of the company. Any prudent business person would have been crazy to think otherwise. That includes all patents as well. What people don't understand is it was the owners of Schrade USA that sold all they had to Taylor Brands. Some might say Schrade USA sold out but that doesn't make it so. Schrade USA was no longer a going concern by the time the owners and heirs of Schrade sold what they had left. It was a banner day for a little company out of Kingsport TN. As an aside, the Schrade-Walden knives are manufactured stateside through SMKW. Objectively, Schrade is now owned and operated by Taylor Brands. That makes them Schrade. It is on the subjective side that people have opinions. One subjective opinion I have concerning Schrade knives is that they always have been hardware store grade knives. That goes for Schrade USA as well as Schrade now owned and operated by Taylor. There is nothing wrong with that and Taylor has maintained the same target market. They know they can't win over the knife knuts but the market itself for the company isn't suffering because of it. One thing knife knuts are doing to Taylor is motivating them for better quality. I'm starting to see that with some of their cutlery. They are making improvements.

 

[Blues]

Since this discussion has devolved from the original posters question to a discussion of Taylor Brands and their business practices, this is being moved to the "feedback" section.

 

[sunnyd]

Since this discussion has devolved from the original posters question to a discussion of Taylor Brands and their business practices, this is being moved to the "feedback" section.

Yup, agreed. Thanks for doing the right thing, Elliot.

 

[blackfly]

Foilist,
You have an email/pm.

blackfly

 

[Knife Outlet]

I would say the quality of Chinese-made Taylor Schrades is all over the board. In general, the traditional pocket knives are pretty good overall. Some of the other knives like the OTF mentioned above are pretty bad. If your purpose is to buy a traditional slipjoint, you will probably be impressed with the quality for the price. In other words, I think these are pretty good values.

I'm not going to join the argument over country of origin. I'm not a fan of Chinese imports personally but they are a way of life. Will a Chinese Schrade perform like an American one? Possibly not. But it will be serviceable and it won't cost as much either.

 

[Knife Outlet]

They bought the Schrade name with "Made in China" in small type out of sight, not the American flag.

No one is contesting their right to the name or even to manufacture knives in America. But the misrepresentation comes in making it practically impossible to distinguish between original Schrade and the new company in internet sales. Original Schrade are collectible in their own right. New Schrade haven't established themselves in that category, and if they do, they will still not be original.

Of course they bought the Schrade name to put on imported products. Imported knives is what Taylor does. Taylor isn't trying to deceive anybody. they don't manufacture anything. They are importers and marketers of knives. They are now Schrade. You need to deal with the brand as having different owners at different times with different products. How many owners did the Winchester (firearm not cutlery) brand have before it disappeared? To this day people trade in Winchester rifles and shotguns as pre-this and post-that.

The reality is Schrade should have gotten into importation themselves and phased out of U.S. production. If they had done so in time, they would still be with us. And, if this were the case, the collectors would still have to deal with pre-this and post-that without a change of ownership in the brand.

We have imports from all kinds of American knife manufacturers like Gerber or Buck that have both a domestic and an imported line. Collectors of those brands deal with exactly the same issues. Gerber, incidentally, changed hands a few years ago. They are now a subsidiary of a Scandinavian scissor manufacturer. So the Gerber brand has changed not only in terms of country of origin but in ownership - exactly the same situation you see with the Schrade brand.

 

[Knife Outlet]

But I imagine, in their own estimation they are just that, taking their profits in smaller increments over a greater number of cheaper knives sold.

I would guess Taylor's margins on imported Schrade knives are quite a bit more than those of the domestic knives for Schrade. Taylor is a powerhouse in the industry. They are far, far, far more effective in business terms with the Schrade brand than Schrade ever was. You or I may not like knives but you have to respect the success they've had with them.

 

[bubinga]

I'm not going to make any friends by typing this, but the Uncle Henry and Old Timer pocket knives by Taylor seem as good or better as the 90's-00's era US Schrades. I'm not familiar with anything older than that. Were it not for the "ROC" it would be difficult to tell the difference.

 

[sunnyd]

I'm not going to make any friends by typing this, but the Uncle Henry and Old Timer pocket knives by Taylor seem as good or better as the 90's-00's era US Schrades. I'm not familiar with anything older than that. Were it not for the "ROC" it would be difficult to tell the difference.

Unless you are at minimum of 30 years old and have the good fortune to have had and used said 1990's-2000's for a an 18 year period regarding the USA Schrades, and comparing like(same model knives) both side-by-side and travel into the future for another 18 years to see how the Taylor China knives stand up to the USA Schrade knives... Then I submit to you, you are merely speculating at best.

 

[sunnyd]

Of course they bought the Schrade name to put on imported products. Imported knives is what Taylor does. Taylor isn't trying to deceive anybody. they don't manufacture anything. They are importers and marketers of knives. They are now Schrade. You need to deal with the brand as having different owners at different times with different products. How many owners did the Winchester (firearm not cutlery) brand have before it disappeared? To this day people trade in Winchester rifles and shotguns as pre-this and post-that.

The reality is Schrade should have gotten into importation themselves and phased out of U.S. production. If they had done so in time, they would still be with us. And, if this were the case, the collectors would still have to deal with pre-this and post-that without a change of ownership in the brand.

We have imports from all kinds of American knife manufacturers like Gerber or Buck that have both a domestic and an imported line. Collectors of those brands deal with exactly the same issues. Gerber, incidentally, changed hands a few years ago. They are now a subsidiary of a Scandinavian scissor manufacturer. So the Gerber brand has changed not only in terms of country of origin but in ownership - exactly the same situation you see with the Schrade brand.

You are comparing apples and little round balls of sh!t with this. Sorry, I just don't agree.

 

[Knife Outlet]

Thanks for the colorful language.

 

[wolfmann601]

You are comparing apples and little round balls of sh!t with this. Sorry, I just don't agree.

What a stupid hit and run post!!!

Now, please explain the difference. Who/what are the apples and who/what are the little round balls of shit.

 

[sunnyd]

What a stupid hit and run post!!!

Now, please explain the difference. Who/what are the apples and who/what are the little round balls of shit.

I thought I made it quite clear in post #35, and #36. But since you asked and I have never hit and ran from anywhere in my life, let me spell it out for you.

The real Schrades were made by real cutlers in America until they shut down after over 100 years and they're reputation preceded them. They stood for quality and longevity. Which is why offshore overseas knives exist in the first place. They are posers IMO and facilities of the real thing and many folks who cant tell the difference and that aren't very knife savvy are being duped.

The apples being the real thing and the little balls of...

.. Well, I think you are catching my drift.

 

[Knife Outlet]

No, I don't catch your drift. I'll try to explain why you feel the way you do since I don't think you understand it. Schrade is a brand. Gerber is a brand. The ownership of the Schrade brand changed and so did the country of origin. The ownership of the Gerber brand also changed (to another country by the way) and so did the country of origin for at least the majority of the product line.

The difference is you don't like Taylor Cutlery and you don't dislike Gerber for whatever reasons you have. That's why you view them as apples and oranges. In fact, they represent very similar situations. You are viewing my comparisons subjectively and I view them objectively.

I'm sure you wish Taylor had put some other brand on the Chinese made Schrade knives but that would be a poor business decision after having spent the money to buy the brand. The fact is, the first thing Taylor did, was to take the entire Schrade line - all of it - and have it manufactured in China. And, while you may not like the knives, those that were part of the U.S. Schrade line were pretty well done as far as quality goes in China. In fact, most of them are pretty decent knives. Taylor has grown the line way past what he bought from Schrade but that's just growing the business. Some of that growth is in knives of lower quality. No argument there. But overall, Taylor did the right thing with the line. It is the same thing Schrade should have done with it.

You can argue the quality all you like. Personally I think the the Old Timer Schrades with the carbon steel were better performers but I don't see much difference in the stainless models. But quality wasn't my point. My point was that collectors of Schrade knives face about the same situation collectors of Gerber knives do. And except for the fact that Buck is still owned and managed by the Buck family, Buck collectors have to deal with domestic and import lines also.

I'll grant you one point. Schrade was a manufacturer and Taylor is not. Taylor is an importer and marketer. So that is a difference to be sure. However, SOG, Cold Steel and a host of others aren't manufacturers either. They are designers, importers and marketers of knives. You may like one product line better than another but that isn't the point. The point is the similarity in the business environment for these companies and their customers.

I'm not trying to sell you an Taylor Schrade knives. I don't care. I'm just trying to add some perspective to the thread. Feel free to disagree. No problem there. We all have opinions.