The Imperial plant in Rhode Island closed about that time, replaced by the Irish Imperial factory, which was replaced by Chinese production. Yes, the Imperial-Schrade Corp. was having knives made in China even before going out of business, low-end Imperial-brand knives mostly.
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Taylor-Schrade Traditionals: Your Opinions, Reviews and Overviews
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The Imperial plant in Rhode Island closed about that time, replaced by the Irish Imperial factory, which was replaced by Chinese production. Yes, the Imperial-Schrade Corp. was having knives made in China even before going out of business, low-end Imperial-brand knives mostly.
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Maybe it would be helpful to merge this thread with the one from a few days ago (and other relevant threads) into a "Taylor Brands thread" I think the misconceptions and questions are common enough that it would be helpful to have a central thread. Just my 2 cents.
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Interesting. I bet it won't be too many years before people won't even concern themselves between the old USA version and the Taylor product if they are looking for a knife for using. Some Taylor Schrade fixed blades are using 1095 now and many like the performance. Honestly, I liked the old Schrades, but they weren't much different than Case in terms of quality. They weren't what I would consider "expensive knives". I still buy the old Schrades, but sometimes I wonder why I concern myself since I am not a collector.
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It seems that it's already the case that people don't differentiate between them. Time has a way of doing that. That's what Taylor Brands was banking on. I think a "Taylor Brands thread" could do a lot of good in this respect as well as answering other common questions.
With respect to quality of the USA made Schrades, there wasn't much difference between some of the USA-made (real) Schrade knives and more expensive knives made by GEC.
Some photos of a Schrade USA 8OT and GEC 81 for comparison.
Thanks, Frank. You've put it well.
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Always liked the brass liners. Thought they were really classy.
One of the differences I notice between Schrade USA and GEC stuff is GEC has nicer scales overall and the fit and finish may be a touch better. The 440A was a revelation.... I had always thought they used 420HC. Most people do a thumbs down on 440A these days. Frost uses 440A. Frost says its 440A, but I suspect it is the Chinese version.
One of the differences I notice between Schrade USA and GEC stuff is GEC has nicer scales overall and the fit and finish may be a touch better. The 440A was a revelation.... I had always thought they used 420HC. Most people do a thumbs down on 440A these days. Frost uses 440A. Frost says its 440A, but I suspect it is the Chinese version.
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Schrade used 440A till the late 90's, They used 420HC the last few years.
The Chinese alloy used in the Old Timer and Uncle Henry models is very similar to 440A
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Good idea.
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thanks, Frank :thumbup:
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Been reading through this combined thread. I see my lack of knowledge on the steel question could have been answered earlier if I had read that thread.
My take on this is that I think I need to buy a couple of the Taylor Schrades and try them out on everyday kinds of tasks.
What I am reading here is not good news for either Case or Queen. Very competitive world we live in.
My take on this is that I think I need to buy a couple of the Taylor Schrades and try them out on everyday kinds of tasks.
What I am reading here is not good news for either Case or Queen. Very competitive world we live in.
afishhunter
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Since reviews are now allowed, I would like to give a quick review of the "Hammer Brand" Congress, Model HB4RPB in red picked bone, I recently picked up from home. (about a year after I bought it)
The paperwork inside the box is from Taylor Brands.
First off, the box says "Congress", but the knife is 100% canoe in shape.
The red bone is a nice, even burgundy color, well matched side to side. The nickel silver sheild (shaped like a Shield ... go figure ...) is properly inlaid; it is flush with the cover, not "proud " or sunken.
The cover to bolster fit is dead on, on both sides. No gaps at the bolsters or the liners. There are three brass pins holding the covers (2 plus the one that holds the back springs) which are flush to the covers. The back springs are flush with the blades open and closed. There are no 1/2 stops.
This is a four blade, two spring knife. The blades are a master spear point, which shares a spring with a pen blade, and a Spey and a Coping blade on the other. The blades have been ground for clearance, and might have a very slight crink on the pen and coping blades of no more than 3 to 5 degrees. There is no blade rub. Pull is an even 5 or so, on all the blades; very consistant. Walk n Talk is excellent.
There is a small gap in the pile side, between the spring and liner, it might be wide enough for a piece of cigarette paper in.
All four blades came shaving sharp out of the box, and have even grinds.
My example has nickel silver bolsters and brass liners.
I don't remember exactly what I paid for this knife, but I know it was under $15.00.
I think it is an above average knife for what it cost.
IMHO, if you can find this knife, it would be a good one to add to your collection and/or EDC rotation. Like I said, I bought this knife about a year ago. I just did a quick search where I got mine, and it is out of stock.
It is going to displace the Colt carbon steel canoe from my pocket for a week or three.
The paperwork inside the box is from Taylor Brands.
First off, the box says "Congress", but the knife is 100% canoe in shape.
The red bone is a nice, even burgundy color, well matched side to side. The nickel silver sheild (shaped like a Shield ... go figure ...) is properly inlaid; it is flush with the cover, not "proud " or sunken.
The cover to bolster fit is dead on, on both sides. No gaps at the bolsters or the liners. There are three brass pins holding the covers (2 plus the one that holds the back springs) which are flush to the covers. The back springs are flush with the blades open and closed. There are no 1/2 stops.
This is a four blade, two spring knife. The blades are a master spear point, which shares a spring with a pen blade, and a Spey and a Coping blade on the other. The blades have been ground for clearance, and might have a very slight crink on the pen and coping blades of no more than 3 to 5 degrees. There is no blade rub. Pull is an even 5 or so, on all the blades; very consistant. Walk n Talk is excellent.
There is a small gap in the pile side, between the spring and liner, it might be wide enough for a piece of cigarette paper in.
All four blades came shaving sharp out of the box, and have even grinds.
My example has nickel silver bolsters and brass liners.
I don't remember exactly what I paid for this knife, but I know it was under $15.00.
I think it is an above average knife for what it cost.
IMHO, if you can find this knife, it would be a good one to add to your collection and/or EDC rotation. Like I said, I bought this knife about a year ago. I just did a quick search where I got mine, and it is out of stock.
It is going to displace the Colt carbon steel canoe from my pocket for a week or three.
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meako
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Agreed on the Del but I have a China made 227UH with great Staglon- every bit as good as the original stuff.
The 227UH is the largest folder they ever made/make I believe -could be wrong.
But whats with that yellowy coloured nickel sliver?? bolster metal?.
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After the recent posts, I decided to take another look at Taylor's foreign made version of the "Schrade" Old Timer 8OT Senior. And my opinion is unchanged. In my opinion, the quality is most similar but perhaps slightly lower than the quality of Rough Rider knives. I much prefer the original USA made Old Timers. In the $10 range, I think it is an OK purchase but for that price I think a similar model from Rough Rider may be a slightly better choice.
No photos unfortunately since I just stopped by a local sporting goods store (name withheld since they aren't a Bladeforums dealer) to look at the knives. The Taylor "Schrade" 8OT was priced at $24.99 which is more than I think it's worth. And I wasn't going to buy it just to take some photos. I haven't checked in a while but I thought they cost around $10 shipped online.
The knives were in blister packs so I was not able to handle them or check the mechanics. The main blade was open but the spey and sheepfoot blades were closed and I could see how they fit in the well. Looked good. The blades weren't touching which is a common problem on 3 blade knives, especially inexpensive 3 blade knives. Any rub would be caused by pushing on the blades instead of opening them straight up. I've had some issues with crossed blades on some Rough Rider stock knives and others have been fine.
The main blade was open and I could see the surface of the blade. It looked similar to Rough Rider blades except that it was not as highly polished.
The springs had very noticeable gaps. I was not able to check if the blades had any wobbliness associated with the gaps. The gaps may or may not have affected the mechanics. A few gaps aren't the end of the world. I've also seen gaps on some Rough Rider knives and not others.
The plastic handles had some overspill from the molding that hadn't been trimmed off but they were generally well shaped. The color is different than on the original USA made Old Timers. I don't know if they feel different as well since I wasn't able to remove the knives from the packaging. I have noticed that the yellow delrin on Rough Rider knives is not uniform and has some swirls. It also feels very different than the surface of the delrin on Case knives. I think Case's yellow delrin has a much better feel. In general, the materials always look cheaper to me on these inexpensive imports. I suspect it may be the quality of the materials but I haven't ruled out the possibility that it may just be the amount of finishing.
In my opinion, the Taylor made "Schrade" Old Timer 8OT looks a lot more like a Rough Rider than a USA made Old Timer.
I still have not seen the Taylor version of the Uncle Henry knife that Frank reviewed or the Taylor version of the Hammer Brand knife that afishhunter reviewed. And I can't comment on those knives. The store also had a Taylor made "Schrade" Old Timer muskrat. It looked similar to the stockman. Some of the packages had a lot of yellowish/greenish dried oil on the clear plastic. Not a big deal but I thought I'd mention it for completeness.
No photos unfortunately since I just stopped by a local sporting goods store (name withheld since they aren't a Bladeforums dealer) to look at the knives. The Taylor "Schrade" 8OT was priced at $24.99 which is more than I think it's worth. And I wasn't going to buy it just to take some photos. I haven't checked in a while but I thought they cost around $10 shipped online.
The knives were in blister packs so I was not able to handle them or check the mechanics. The main blade was open but the spey and sheepfoot blades were closed and I could see how they fit in the well. Looked good. The blades weren't touching which is a common problem on 3 blade knives, especially inexpensive 3 blade knives. Any rub would be caused by pushing on the blades instead of opening them straight up. I've had some issues with crossed blades on some Rough Rider stock knives and others have been fine.
The main blade was open and I could see the surface of the blade. It looked similar to Rough Rider blades except that it was not as highly polished.
The springs had very noticeable gaps. I was not able to check if the blades had any wobbliness associated with the gaps. The gaps may or may not have affected the mechanics. A few gaps aren't the end of the world. I've also seen gaps on some Rough Rider knives and not others.
The plastic handles had some overspill from the molding that hadn't been trimmed off but they were generally well shaped. The color is different than on the original USA made Old Timers. I don't know if they feel different as well since I wasn't able to remove the knives from the packaging. I have noticed that the yellow delrin on Rough Rider knives is not uniform and has some swirls. It also feels very different than the surface of the delrin on Case knives. I think Case's yellow delrin has a much better feel. In general, the materials always look cheaper to me on these inexpensive imports. I suspect it may be the quality of the materials but I haven't ruled out the possibility that it may just be the amount of finishing.
In my opinion, the Taylor made "Schrade" Old Timer 8OT looks a lot more like a Rough Rider than a USA made Old Timer.
I still have not seen the Taylor version of the Uncle Henry knife that Frank reviewed or the Taylor version of the Hammer Brand knife that afishhunter reviewed. And I can't comment on those knives. The store also had a Taylor made "Schrade" Old Timer muskrat. It looked similar to the stockman. Some of the packages had a lot of yellowish/greenish dried oil on the clear plastic. Not a big deal but I thought I'd mention it for completeness.
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afishhunter
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Strange. I've been to the Schrade website. They list all the knives for each of the brands, complete with specifications and MSRP's.
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Basically, both sites are the same. They forward surfers to where they can buy knives. Not a bad business plan. 
The Rough Rider website is basically just a referral page for the retail store. Similarly, Schrade redirects automatically to the Taylor Brands website. I kept it short (and didn't include links) since I don't think it's within the forum rules to discuss where to buy knives.
The Rough Rider website is basically just a referral page for the retail store. Similarly, Schrade redirects automatically to the Taylor Brands website. I kept it short (and didn't include links) since I don't think it's within the forum rules to discuss where to buy knives.
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I was looking at their videos and I noticed the version with bone handles looks even more like a Rough Rider than the version with plastic handles. The one with bone handles has more highly polished blades as well as match strike pulls and nail nicks like a Rough Rider.
I suspect, they probably pick the best knife available for a video demo but you can see a gap in the spring. The ones at the local store had MUCH more noticeable gaps in the springs. It looks like the MSRP is over $30+ which I think is more than its worth. For around $10, I think they may give some competition to Rough Rider.
[youtube]zwIAZA9LSDY[/youtube]
I suspect, they probably pick the best knife available for a video demo but you can see a gap in the spring. The ones at the local store had MUCH more noticeable gaps in the springs. It looks like the MSRP is over $30+ which I think is more than its worth. For around $10, I think they may give some competition to Rough Rider.
[youtube]zwIAZA9LSDY[/youtube]
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So, Jake. Are you comparing pictures or knives-in-hand? That looks like a shadow from a slightly uneven spring, not a gap.
I have two of the Taylor Schrade knives, both with plastic covers. Neither has any gaps.
I haven't tried the Rough Riders. I haven't compared their steel to what Taylor is using for the plastic handled ones. But I have compared the steel Taylor is using to what was used on the US Uncle Henry knives. And it's pretty darn close. (So close that it might be a bit superior to the original. But if there is a difference, I would not expect anyone to notice in daily use.)
This is the last time I'm going to post in this thread. I find I am repeating myself. The original question was, "Are the new Taylor Schrades any good or are they junk?"
My opinion, based on a direct comparison, is that they are not junk and are reasonably similar to the originals, especially in performance of their stainless steel.
I have two of the Taylor Schrade knives, both with plastic covers. Neither has any gaps.
I haven't tried the Rough Riders. I haven't compared their steel to what Taylor is using for the plastic handled ones. But I have compared the steel Taylor is using to what was used on the US Uncle Henry knives. And it's pretty darn close. (So close that it might be a bit superior to the original. But if there is a difference, I would not expect anyone to notice in daily use.)
This is the last time I'm going to post in this thread. I find I am repeating myself. The original question was, "Are the new Taylor Schrades any good or are they junk?"
My opinion, based on a direct comparison, is that they are not junk and are reasonably similar to the originals, especially in performance of their stainless steel.