Taylor-Schrade Traditionals: Your Opinions, Reviews and Overviews

[supratentorial]

Frank, Sorry if this is frustrating. This will be my last post as well. I thought this was now a central general discussion thread for the Taylor Schrades ("Your Opinions, Reviews and Overviews"). Either way, I was not saying the knives are junk. I was giving my opinion of the quality of the knives and how they compete with other brands at similar price points. I thought I was being very fair. I had both positives and negatives to say about the knife. Also, there can be differences in different models as well as different runs. I am not disagreeing with anything you or afishhunter have said since I have not seen those knives. They don't sell them locally.. I did see the 8OT in store and can tell you with certainty that there were 3 gaps along the spring. I didn't have a camera with me to take photos in the store. The photo above is a still from the video below it. There's a shadow on the side of the spring closest to the bottom of the photo since the spring is lower than the liner.. On the other side, I think it is a gap. It is just a photo. Maybe you don't agree. I know for sure there were worse and more numerous gaps in the knives at the store. Maybe if you inspect 10 knives some would have gaps and others wouldn't. I only saw 4 knives in the store and they all had gaps. Other models and other runs may be different.

 

[Coonskinner]

I love the originals and have a bunch of them.

But the fact is, the fit on those USA Old Timers was all over the map.

Some were very good.

Others were pretty rough.

Their great redeeming virtue was those thinly ground 1095 blades that would easily take a screaming sharp edge and cut like there was no tomorrow.

And they were cheap.

 

[RevolverGuy]

Traditionalists will get their panties all tied in a knot with newer Taylor-Schrade knives but I have owned both and honestly I think the classic models they still offer under the Uncle Henry and Old Timer brands are still pretty close to the originals. Schrade was never a high end brand. They made traditional hunting/working knives at a decent price and the Taylor brand is still doing that today. They might not be the exact same steel but they come sharp and hold an edge, and you are still able to buy them for what they cost 25 years ago. Yes they might be made overseas but the company that is handling everything is in Tennessee.

I took my first plunge last year and bought an Uncle Henry LB7 folder for $20. That knife is solid all around and I was surprised that for the price it came with a really nice leather sheath too. Nicer than some of the over $50 knives I have bought that were made here in the USA. A few months later I ended up picking up one of their large bowie and an Old Timer Hunter (both under $25) and they both feel and look like the originals. Also the Taylor-Schrade customer service dept is excellent. I ended up chipping the rosewood scales from my LB7 and sent it in for repair. They sent me a brand new one in 3 days time, at no cost.

I think for the price you get a lot of knife with Taylor-Schrade, but the true gems are in their newer models (Schrade brand). I just bought a SCHF51 and SCHF52 (both were right at the $35 range). Both are excellent heavy duty knives that are using 1095 high carbon steel and come with sharpeners, ferro rods, and sheath. I've yet to come across another competitor that offers all of that for a camp/survival knife under $35.

My advice is that if you are traditionalist and want to own something that says USA on it, just pay more money for the ones on the used market. Schrade sold millions and they aren't rare. If you want something new at a price that won't hurt the wallet and/or want to try a modern design, then head to their website and browse the Schrade line. They have videos on nearly all their models that gives a good breakdown review. http://taylorbrandsllc.com/

 

[Ballenxj]

Their great redeeming virtue was those thinly ground 1095 blades that would easily take a screaming sharp edge and cut like there was no tomorrow.

That, and their tempering of 1095 was legendary.

Unlike your observation though, I have found their fit and finish was mostly pretty good. I too have collected a few of the originals.
Maybe I will break one of my cardinal rules and buy a Chinese Schrade for comparison.

 

[davek14]

I love the originals and have a bunch of them.
Their great redeeming virtue was those thinly ground 1095 blades that would easily take a screaming sharp edge and cut like there was no tomorrow.

You betcha.

They might not be the exact same steel

That's the point, 'cause

their tempering of 1095 was legendary.

But...

Maybe I will break one of my cardinal rules and buy a Chinese Schrade for comparison.

The new Sharades (charades) got lots of really bad reviews at first. Now they seem to be getting better ones. Might have to give one a try.

 

[Ballenxj]

The new charades got lots of really bad reviews at first. Now they seem to be getting better ones. Might have to give one a try.

This is what I'm sayin, only to put this issue to rest for once and for all. My biggest problem is that by buying one I will be supporting them, even if just a little.
I would have to find one built on the same frame I already own to give it a fair appraisal. I would also have to hold my nose while doing so. :grumpy:

 

[jc57]

I've posted in this thread (and in the RR thread, where we were also discussing the Taylor brands) that the first one I got, a 93OT in Delrin, is a decent knife for the money I spent. Fit and finish was good, knife came quite sharp and I was able to refine the edge further to my regular preferred level of sharpness. Based on my sharpening experience it seemed like a good steel.

Seemed like an OK knife overall. A regular joe who picked one up at the big box store would probably be happy with it as a pocket knife.

I bought one of the bone handled 440c versions (34OTB) and was less impressed. Maybe I just got a bad one but it didn't seem like it was worth the money. Handle and fit issues.

I'd have no problems carrying the Delrin model as a user, if I didn't already have so many other (nicer, more expensive) knives competing for daily pocket space.

 

[Frotier76]

No Imperial Knives USA started the Front/Double Eagle line which ran from 1976 and was discontinued in 1985...following Imperial's plant closing.The Old Timer Knives originated in 1961 under a few patterns from another knife manufacturer owned by the Baer family called Ulster Knives.

 

[Tdhurl1103]

All this talk about Old Timer has got me curious. The general store in town here has a few, so I'll be down there sometime before Xmas to check them out.
This thread might be parallel to the RR thread but I'm glad I started it. I've always appreciated Old Timer knives and I must confess that a OT skinner is really THE knife that got me liking knives as a kid. It just looked so cool.

 

[leghog]

My advice is that if you are traditionalist and want to own something that says USA on it, just pay more money for the ones on the used market. Schrade sold millions and they aren't rare.

It's precisely because of those numbers made that you don't necessarily have to pay more for an original. I know I haven't.

 

[Peter Parker]

Here is my new 60TW and my OT 3T(use to be my grandfather's) together. I hand picked this one with several others by looking down through the shell package at each one. This new one slightly beats the 3T in F&F...

 

[pinnah]

Every time this topic comes up, I think there are 3 issues and I think the discussion would be better if people sorted out which issue they really cared about.

Fit and Finish - This is the technical aspect of quality. Frank has addressed this well already. All I can add is that cyclists saw this in the bike boom of the 70s which coined the term "ubiquitous Japanese bicycle". Turned out, those Japanese bicycles, like the pristine 1980 Fuji America that I have in my collection were often better than anything made in the US or Europe. IMO, as Frank has pointed out, this is probably a loosing line of argument.

Politics - Economic warfare and politics and jobs... Interesting topics but not for a knife forum. The moderators are right to simply shut down any discussion of this line of thinking.

Tradition - Who here would be interested in an Opinel made in Spain? Or a Victorinox made in Slovenia? Or a Mora made in the Ukraine? This is no dig against Spain, Slovenia or the Ukraine. They all have their own knife culture and their own traditional knives. But an Opinel is tied to France and French culture, a Victorinox is tied to Swiss culture and the Mora, to Sweden. In the same way, Schrade was tied to American knife culture and specifically, to the culture of knife manufacturing in New York state. It seems to me that if you care deeply about not only traditional designs but the culture and traditions that produced them, something significant (not good, not bad, but significant) happens when the production is taken out of that culture.

Some comments...

First, I suspect that nearly all of the complaints generated by people about fit and finish or politics are more accurately rooted in complaint of the breach of tradition. The so-called technical or political justifications just get tossed out because they seem easier to defend.

Second, I think there's a huge difference between the moving of a design and the moving of a brand. The Fuji America in my basement is an example of that. The design is based on the traditional English Clubman style bikes - a style we used to call "sport touring" in the 70s. Examples that people might recall are the Raleigh Gran Prix or the higher priced, International. Fuji producing a higher quality version of the Raleigh International and calling it the America is one thing. Fuji buying the rights to the Raleigh name and shipping the production of the Gran Prix and the International to, say, Japan, would have been another.

To my mind, this second point is the key difference between Rough Rider and Taylor Schrade. The first is made up brand to be put on imported traditional knives. The latter is the selling out of a traditional marque that achieved iconic status in US. For what it's worth... Raleigh of England eventually sold the rights of the Raleigh name to Raleigh USA in the 80s and in the last few years, Raleigh USA has come back on the scene. All of the bikes are made oversees, just like my Wranglers are. <sigh>

 

[Ballenxj]

^^ Very well put. ^^

To my mind, this second point is the key difference between Rough Rider and Taylor Schrade. The first is made up brand to be put on imported traditional knives. The latter is the selling out of a traditional marque that achieved iconic status in US.

And this is my grievance against Taylor Schrades made in China.

 

[davek14]

Every time this topic comes up, I think there are 3 issues and I think the discussion would be better if people sorted out which issue they really cared about.

Nicely analyzed as usual guy. You do have a way of pigeonholing things to clarify. My mind is made up of little boxes as well, although it prolly is as organized as my attic.

Two things here quickly at 4 AM.

1. You kind of addressed this, but not to it's logical conclusion. Since Schrade was an established name, many continued to buy Schrade on the name alone. They expected the same steel and quality and did not know they were made in China now. At first, the new ones got very poor reviews here. I know personally a number of (non-knife-nut) folks who bought the new stuff after swearing by Schrade and were disappointed.

I've run into this myself with work boots. I have big duck feet and am hard to fit in a steel toe. I bought Red Wing for years, trying a few different styles, etc. (at a couple, few hundred dollars a pop) till I got a good fit. I then would go and just request that exact size and model number. This went on for years then suddenly I had a bad fit. Inspection of the shoe showed it was now partially made in China.

So, using an established name isn't just a break in tradition. There's an element of deception as well. They paid good money for that name for a reason.

Now, I don't so much tilt at that windmill anymore. I'm a 60 year old machinist and I am just looking for my best value for my money. Which brings me to...

2. Steel... They seem to be using better steel now. Many moons ago, new to BF I made a post on what knives once were, bemoaning the loss of the "inexpensive carbon-steel slipjoint". After a time I learned that existed in used Schrades. I only jumped on to the Opinel wagon after a certain poster here compared their stainless to Schrades old carbon. Then I found that they too were a decent steel at a decent price.

Franks review showing that their 7cr13mov(?) compare well with Schrade's stainless was a start, although they were not known for their stainless. Hearing that they have some offerings in Chinese 440C impressed me more.

So I might look at the new Schrades and again find good steel at a good price... cool.

I still wish they would do carbon steel though.

 

[Will Power]

Actually, I don't think the tradition analogy holds water. Opinel, SAK and Mora make a particular and identifiable type of knife, very nearly a pattern or niche associated with a country. They are all reasonable to modest cost but very consistently high quality. Schrade US made many knife patterns that their direct American competitors such as CASE, Buck, Queen C also make/made. Many of my American friends have noted that most Schrades were considered low cost unpretentious work-knives with sometimes rough&ready finishes. But they are knives very like those of CASE, Buck, Queen etc but usually simpler finish/patterns or having that odd swinden key construction. Show somebody with little knowledge of knives an Opinel & they are likely to be able to ID it, a Schrade looks like many other mass produced American knives.

 

[Ice Tigre]

Appologies, but I got a question, far outside the current topic ya'll are on...

How do we identify the new imports from the old domestics?

Earlier this year I bought a 123OT, nice little 4" single blade folding hunter. Its a pattern I'd wanted one of for a long time, having know Schrade made it back in the 60s and 70s, but was long discontinued, the only specimens I could find for sale were triple digit collectors pieces, so I gave up.

Then I stumbled upon this one for sale on the bay. less than $20 IIRC. Its Delrin, and stainless, and marked simply Schrade... are all the older domestics marked as USA? I seem to remember that they are not... And aren't imports required by law to have the country of origin marked on them?


I had assumed it was a Taylor made import.
Just wondering what I got, a NOS from pre USA factory closure a decade or so ago, or a new import. Literally, the only marks on it are SCHRADE on one side of the tang, and 123OT on the other. The box did not say Taylor anywhere on it either, just Schrade.

I serriously doubt its verry old if it is USA made, since it was immaculately NIB, and although NIB NOS knives can survive for decades, I still doubt it. The odds are just really against it... But I'd like to know.

are there different tang stamp styles perhaps, like with Case in different eras?

Any help appreciated!

OK, I now return you to your more philisophically meaningful discussions.

 

[brownshoe]

Actually, I don't think the tradition analogy holds water. Opinel, SAK and Mora make a particular and identifiable type of knife, very nearly a pattern or niche associated with a country. They are all reasonable to modest cost but very consistently high quality. Schrade US made many knife patterns that their direct American competitors such as CASE, Buck, Queen C also make/made. Many of my American friends have noted that most Schrades were considered low cost unpretentious work-knives with sometimes rough&ready finishes. But they are knives very like those of CASE, Buck, Queen etc but usually simpler finish/patterns or having that odd swinden key construction. Show somebody with little knowledge of knives an Opinel & they are likely to be able to ID it, a Schrade looks like many other mass produced American knives.

I agree, I don't believe the tradition analogy is correct. There is nothing traditionally American about Schrade knives. The US cutlery tradition has its roots in European (mostly British and German) patterns and manufacturing techniques. As Will says, there is no distinctively "Schrade" pattern.

The cutlery industry died out in New England first, except for Lansom & Goodnow which only makes kitchen cutlery. However, Union cutlery still exists in New York. Don't they still make a few pocket knives? Pennsylvania has three factories making slipjoints, Queen, GEC and Case. When did the last New England pocket knife manufacturer close?

 

[pinnah]

If this is the case, there is no traditional American anything (knives, literature, whatever) other than those produced by the Native American nations.

Nearly all American traditional patterns are products of immigration, which is entirely different from simple purchase of IP for the purpose of competing in the globalize do production world.

Baer's brown saw cut Delrin was certainly distinctive, the trapper and stockman patterns are clearly American derivations based on European predecessors but clearly American, as were many of Schrades iconic fixed blade including the Sharpfinger and Loveless drop point.

If Schrade didn't achieve the status of iconic American tradition knives, nobody did, IMO.

 

[jc57]

Appologies, but I got a question, far outside the current topic ya'll are on...

How do we identify the new imports from the old domestics?

Earlier this year I bought a 123OT, nice little 4" single blade folding hunter. Its a pattern I'd wanted one of for a long time, having know Schrade made it back in the 60s and 70s, but was long discontinued, the only specimens I could find for sale were triple digit collectors pieces, so I gave up.

Then I stumbled upon this one for sale on the bay. less than $20 IIRC. Its Delrin, and stainless, and marked simply Schrade... are all the older domestics marked as USA? I seem to remember that they are not... And aren't imports required by law to have the country of origin marked on them?


I had assumed it was a Taylor made import.
Just wondering what I got, a NOS from pre USA factory closure a decade or so ago, or a new import. Literally, the only marks on it are SCHRADE on one side of the tang, and 123OT on the other. The box did not say Taylor anywhere on it either, just Schrade.

I serriously doubt its verry old if it is USA made, since it was immaculately NIB, and although NIB NOS knives can survive for decades, I still doubt it. The odds are just really against it... But I'd like to know.

are there different tang stamp styles perhaps, like with Case in different eras?

Any help appreciated!

OK, I now return you to your more philisophically meaningful discussions.

I have two of the newer Taylor Brands Old Timers. Both boxes say "Taylor Brands LLC, Made in China" on the outside (printed in different locations, on two different styles of box). I have one older USA-made Schrade Old-Timer. The box has "Imperial Schrade Corp" and the address of Ellendale, NY, and says Made in the USA in two places. The UPC code panel also shows country of origin on all three.

On the knives themselves, my USA-made knife says SCHRADE above "USA 104OT" on one side of the main blade tang. The China-made knife just shows SCHRADE on one side of the main blade tang, and 93OT on the opposite side. It does not mention country of origin on the knife itself. Also, the base color of the Delrin near the bolsters on the Taylor knife is sort of an odd pinkish gray, whereas the USA Delrin is more of a tan with hints of brown.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Appologies, but I got a question, far outside the current topic ya'll are on...

How do we identify the new imports from the old domestics?

Earlier this year I bought a 123OT, nice little 4" single blade folding hunter. Its a pattern I'd wanted one of for a long time, having know Schrade made it back in the 60s and 70s, but was long discontinued, the only specimens I could find for sale were triple digit collectors pieces, so I gave up.

Then I stumbled upon this one for sale on the bay. less than $20 IIRC. Its Delrin, and stainless, and marked simply Schrade... are all the older domestics marked as USA? I seem to remember that they are not... And aren't imports required by law to have the country of origin marked on them?


I had assumed it was a Taylor made import.
Just wondering what I got, a NOS from pre USA factory closure a decade or so ago, or a new import. Literally, the only marks on it are SCHRADE on one side of the tang, and 123OT on the other. The box did not say Taylor anywhere on it either, just Schrade.

I serriously doubt its verry old if it is USA made, since it was immaculately NIB, and although NIB NOS knives can survive for decades, I still doubt it. The odds are just really against it... But I'd like to know.

are there different tang stamp styles perhaps, like with Case in different eras?

Any help appreciated!

OK, I now return you to your more philisophically meaningful discussions.

Since 1965 anyway, U.S. trade law has required that products made in the U.S.A. be marked as such. So 1965 and later Schrade USA knives will have such a mark/stamp on them, as will domestically-produced knives from Case, Buck, etc. The absence of country of origin mark on the newer imports are a dead giveaway that they're not made here. Many other products NOT made in the U.S. may or may not have a country of origin marked on them; knives from Germany & Japan are usually marked as such, but many others from Asia/China might not be. Country of origin marks for imported products are not yet required by U.S. law, so far as I know.


David