Teach Me About Scandinavian Knives?

[crossada]

that is what my tommi puukko looks like Thomas, a diamond with a hollow grind and secondary edge bevel.

thanks for the info.

 

[Elen]

I gather from the above posts that a consensus view is that the "Scandi grind" is uniformly a saber grind with a single, flat bevel, a form sanctified by centuries of Scandinavian experience with working wood..

No so.

Start with Elen's post and move to the following comments by the former mod of the Scandinavian Makers Forum at BritishBlades, Trond Petersen, himself a respected maker of custom knives:

I have exchanged emails with a couple of other, patient Scandinavian makers. They agree with Trond that traditional Scandinavian knives come in a variety of grinds. Their posts to that effect at forums are largely ignored.

Add this, please. I have thirty knives made in Scandinavian countries. I examine each one carefully on arrival. Twenty-nine revealed the bright line at the edge that shows the presence of a small secondary bevel OR had an even larger secondary bevel OR were convexed OR were hollow-ground. These included knives by:

Trond
Fiskars
"Sandvik"
Marttiini
Helle
Brusletto
IIsakki
Frosts
Falkniven
Cloudberry [I hear these are probably Brusletto blades.]
"GC MORA"
Karhunkysni [? script hard to read]
Roselli
P. Holmberg
Sharpa
Jonsson

In fact, the only knives I own that arrived with the so-called "Scandi grind" are a single red-handled "MORA" and a Koster.

Finally, my wife's grandfather was a professional woodcarver for Pullman. He created the wonderful scenes and decorations in inlay and carving in the private rail cars of the "swells" of the early 19th century. I have several of his carving knives. They are Sloyds, a form said to have been developed in Sweden -- and still sold by Swedish makers. They are all flat ground with convex edges.

Seems to me that saber with a single, flat bevel is just one way to go.

Yes, it's certainly true that Scandinavian knives can have a number of different grinds, and that this has always been the case. What is rather much open to discussion is what should be called a Scandi grind? Is a full convex grind on a Scandinavian made otherwise traditional blade suddenly called a Scandi grind just because it's on a Scandinavian made knife? How about a full flat grind? A hollow grind? I wouldn't say so. We already have proper names for those, so I see no reason to call them anything but what they are. Sometimes Scandi knives don't have Scandi grinds.

That is especially true for factory knives. Looking at your list, that strikes the eye immediately: Fiskars, Sandvik, Marttiini, Helle, Fällkniven, Brusletto, Frosts and so on, are all factory makers. Scandi knives intended for chopping or other work a bit on the abusive side also often have different grinds: I've seen hukaris with full flat grinds and basic saber grinds, but never one with a "Scandi grind" with just a single bevel. The reasons for that should be obvious. The Sissipuukkos are another example - no Scandi grind on those, and yet they still count as puukkos and in that context Scandinavian knives.

Sometimes I feel there's a rather pointless fuss being made about the Scandi grind. It's certainly not magic, merely a grind that has a lot of history, some advantages (like effectiveness in wood working, ease of sharpening), and some disadvantages (thin edge means weak edge that won't love impacts). On the Scandi knives that typically have that kind of grind, which is the utility type knives instead of those meant for axe work like the hukaris, the Scandi grind can either have or not have a secondary bevel, or "microbevel" like some people like to call it (sometimes it isn't very micro as in small, though). Personally, I would say that the grind stops being a Scandi grind at the point when you can't easily sharpen the blade by laying the primary bevel flat on a stone and sharpenin' away. If the secondary bevel is so large or the primary bevel shaped so that this won't work, then it's not a Scandi grind in any way, although the knife may still be as Scandi as any. My main concern in discussions over the Scandi grind is to keep poking at the people who say no-one actually ever used or uses a "real" Scandi grind with only a single bevel. These people are very wrong - just as wrong as those who say that all Scandi knives have a Scandi grind.

Thomas, I think the "Karhunkysni" one on your list is in fact "Karhunkynsi", or translated into English, "Bearclaw." :thumbup:

 

[blazink]

OK, so I ground out the chips in my carbon mora, took forever on my mediam diamond hone. I had a hell of a time getting the burr to go away, I eventually put just a hint of micro bevel with an extra fine arkansas stone and a strop just to get rid of the burr. I know I don't have the best sharpening technique, but should it be so hard to take the burr off without using a micro bevel?

The edge is definately holding up to wood carving better than before, but I need to do some more testing.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Thomas, I think the "Karhunkysni" one on your list is in fact "Karhunkynsi", or translated into English, "Bearclaw."

Elen, thank you. There is, in fact, a bear's claw stamped into the leather of the sheath. Is that a well-known brand?

A few years ago, BushCraftUK did a test of three (IIRC) knives to see which one was the best "bushcraft" knife. An IIsakki was judged the best. After the test, the author of the report said he removed the secondary bevel. Not proper on a "Scandi" I guess. That's AFTER it won the test, mind you. Perhaps he was seeking "magic."

 

[Elen]

OK, so I ground out the chips in my carbon mora, took forever on my mediam diamond hone. I had a hell of a time getting the burr to go away, I eventually put just a hint of micro bevel with an extra fine arkansas stone and a strop just to get rid of the burr. I know I don't have the best sharpening technique, but should it be so hard to take the burr off without using a micro bevel?

The edge is definately holding up to wood carving better than before, but I need to do some more testing.

Normally, it shouldn't. It should come off easy without any sort of secondary bevel. However, when you're dealing with a blade like that particular Mora, that had a bad factory edge, it can happen. In fact, all kinds of things can happen if you are unlucky and get one of those Moras. Depending on how much of the factory edge is bad, it may take a heck of a long time to get the good steel out to the edge, so it will actually be somewhat resistant to chipping and hold the edge as well as it should. It should get better eventually, though, and it'll be good sharpening practice anyway.

Elen, thank you. There is, in fact, a bear's claw stamped into the leather of the sheath. Is that a well-known brand?

A few years ago, BushCraftUK did a test of three (IIRC) knives to see which one was the best "bushcraft" knife. An IIsakki was judged the best. After the test, the author of the report said he removed the secondary bevel. Not proper on a "Scandi" I guess. That's AFTER it won the test, mind you. Perhaps he was seeking "magic."

Karhunkynsi? Not very - unless my memory fails me, it should be a handmade puukko made in Lapland. Should be pretty nice!

Iisakki Järvenpää makes good knives. They'd work well secondary bevel or no. As long as the secondary bevel stays small, it's not a big deal on any knife, if one asks me. I think a lot of people like the single bevel Scandi grind simply because it's different.

 

[Thomas Linton]

I think a lot of people like the single bevel Scandi grind simply because it's different.

Ah yes; the attraction of the exotic. :thumbup: