Teaching dying skills?

Diomedes Industries

Diomedes Industries

Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
7,440
I am a college professor for a living (Philosophy and Religion) so I essentially think for a living. In terms of production - I produce little to nothing tangible. In fact, Philosophy is a pursuit of those who have enough materiel and time to think. I am fortunate enough to have been born into a lower middle class family and was taught how to hunt, fish, and work with my hands.

I concern myself with learning with my hands very often as a way to keep my mind off the less tangible subject as well as feel a bit of success when I can see and feel what I produce.

Anyway - in the summer - I do my best to shut my brain off and read books for fun, go camping, hang a few axes or make a knife, and just chill. I was re-reading World War Z (About as deep as I go in the summer ;) ) and got to the part in the narrative where they began rebuilding America after the "Great Panic".

The man in charge talked about how few American's had any usable skills in the world they found themselves living in and that former housekeepers and menial workers were being put in charge of their previous bosses. They talked about how many skills were simply dying and had to be retaught to those who once had 'prestigious' jobs.

This set me to thinking. I have taught myself many skills that are dying (Leather making, wood working, wood and bone carving and so on) but without books and Youtube - I would be lost. Even with these media - I find myself having to really go the long way about learning a skill. If I had a mentor, someone willing to teach me, I know I could learn so much more.

I wonder - what would it look like if everyone who finds themselves like minded, say those on this board, taught another person what they knew - in exchange for what the other person knew - how quickly we could relearn the 'dying arts'. I think you could have a club like this where you got together once a month and a new person taught, hands on, what was his specialty - or what he had learned. Instead of reading books like 'Foxfire'. We would have an active way to preserve this knowledge.

What do you think? I just wanted to open up a discussion to see where it could lead. It seems like these types of skills would go a long way to living well if life became... "simpler".

TF
 
Hello TF
Nice ambitious thought. I’m someone who feels I have some of these outdoor skills you refer to, but like everyone, along with the good comes some ‘lesser skills’ for me, , lacking social skills.
One issue I see is many of us are not near each other to actually get together to teach each other much.
Next I think there are a great many ways to skin the cat and I find a lot of disagreement among people on whose idea is best, and who we will listen to. Teaching methods vary, and some who ‘know’ are not good teachers.
Some who want to talk the most may be the least qualified according to a majority.
Some people have inflated opinions of their skills and then what? What if I’m one!? (smile)
I assume there are organizations, classes to take to learn specific skills. Unsure how trading skills would work. How it would look.
I myself volunteer at the local school and ‘living center’ where native kids board who want an education and there is no school in their village. Some want to go back to the village and wilderness life and want to learn such skills. I work with them after school. I believe in ‘play it forward’ In that we pass on what we know to those who might appreciate it. In return somewhere in life someone else who is like minded, steps forward to help us learn something we need and wish to know. A little similar to your idea.
In the 60’s this concept was what communes were about. I never heard that any worked.
Most people I know with really good outdoor skills are loners. That may be just my own circle of friends. There is already a section on the forum “Have a skill- offer a service , looking for one who needs it, willing to trade”
 
I think the best thing to do is to write and publish books. If it ever comes to a situation where you can't get internet, etc, books are always going to be there. People have lost sight of the fact that even through the technological onslaught of the 20th century, we still need hard copies. WRITE IT DOWN! Then share it. People will pay you for your knowledge.
 
That is a grand and difficult project for many of the reasons stated by the gent from Alaska.
I personally have been accused of lacking social skills at times but have always had the ability to go into the zone so to speak if a subject interest's me and focus on it as the outside world goes away.

That is my Happy place so to speak. I love knifemaking, my Wife, Dogs history and a few other things.
I always enjoy exchanging my knife making knowledge with another maker or teaching a newer one.

I use to post under a slightly different name, but havn't been here for a few years.

I would like to hear more of your thoughts and ideas on this exchange you would like to do?

Laurence
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Books yes. On the subject of books. Some experience here. Written 4 books. Partly ‘how to’ but much of useful skills I think is about recognizing the need to have these skills, to provide the motivation and reason to seek the answers. Getting books into the hands of those who can use them is difficult. Marketing is a whole skill by itself.

Some of the very reasons we might wish to learn ‘old lost skills’ has to do with why it is difficult to get books out. Distribution of books is controlled by distributors and contracts through normal large outlets. (for example). The entire information network is controlled. Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. And there is opposition to knowledge, self sufficiency, skills. Yes possible to overcome, possible to get past all that, but all we speak of is ‘work’ ‘commitment’ It does not just happen because we have a wish. Most will give up. But not all. Success breeds responsibilities, and can need to be defended. But agree yes, it must begin with a shared dream, and like minded people brainstorming. Agreeing on an end result we want in common. So goes my thinking. Perhaps beginning with “So why do we want to know how things used to be done anyhow?”
 
This is the best thread ive read here.

I envy those that live near wilderness and can spend much time outdoors.

my father was born in the mountains and has many skills I do not possess.

But ive had this discussion with some good friends and it seems hand skills is beneficial.

steel wood medical etc
 
I think the whole issue is a bit overstated. People are intelligent, inventive, adaptive, and creative. If someone, specifically referring to affluent urban residents who are sometimes the butt of outdoor survival topics, can thrive in such a competitive and intense environment as modern business, they will be fine for a few days in the woods.

Sure, they might not be as comfortable initially as someone who's been doing it for years, but most people are perfectly capable of figuring out the basics eventually.

Besides, I would guess that affluent suburbanites are loaded with gear. ;)

-----------

Hope this wasn't an inappropriate location for this semi-rant. It's been on my mind a while...
 
We have a "meetup.com" club in my area. It's just random people with various skills or the desire to learn from others. That Meetup site has a lot to offer if you browse your home area. Could be a great way for people here to find local groups.

Here is one of our local groups.

http://www.meetup.com/primitiveskills/
 
I think most would figure out a way to survive. Even if somehow the majority of the world died off people would probably find a way to group together and thrive.

Id even imagine that since the infrastructure would still be around it wouldn't be too long before these groups move into a small city and have electricity and running water. The human race is fairly resilient gonna take something major (massive asteroid) to wipe us out.
 
Your question brings to mind degrees of contact or networking

I have direct contact with a plethora of folk with all sorts of skills, with a strong bias to craft, herb, and healing skills
And if they don't have the skill set I am searching for, then they will know someone that does

Sharing a way of seeing and believing makes the exchange od skills so much easier
 
Last edited:
Neeman - The Etymology of the word Die, Dying, and Dieing is funny to me.

In the process of death = Dying.

To punch something out with a Die = Dieing

To color something with a dye = Dyeing.

Sheesh...

Who is going to teach English skills? ;)


The concern I have about writing a books is not only the publishing process (I have been published a few times and it is always so darned arduous) as well as the typed word seems to be going the way of the CD. Everything is electronic.



TF
 
Last edited:
Been giving this thought.
I go back to the beginning . A professor thinks it would be great if the world shared knowledge, and we traded skills. So here is a conversation only a tiny bit exaggerated.

“So yes professor it would be cool to have your skills! I’m up for a trade!”
“So woodsman, what skills would you like me to teach you?”
“Well professor I’d have to give that some thought, I’m not sure. It’d be cool to wear one of them thingy’s, what do you call them, oh yes, a tie. And sit in one of them, what are they? ‘swivel chairs’ and sit back and stare at the wall at one of them pieces of paper in a frame with a gold seal that says what is it? ‘PHD’ on it. Yea. That’d be cool” Professor clears his throat and says “Well just to be allowed to enter my classroom you’d need to get a pair of shoes, take a bath, cut your hair, get rid of the lice…..etc” Woodsman is here to visit for his lessons and wonders where he is going to unroll his blanket, where are the trees to cut for the fire to boil coffee, and for that matter (frown) “What tree do I piss on Sir?” . It does not take long to realize this is a very odd place, and this is not fun.

Professor visits Woodsman. Woodsman asks “So what skills would you like to learn” Professor replies “Well you know, all the stuff you know! Knapping flint, skinning bears, making snowshoes, reading maps, all that kind of cool stuff! I wanted to be an Indian chief when I was a kid!” Big grin. Now. Woodsman is open minded and kind and welcomes the professor with open arms. But will his friends? Will mother nature, or even God? Without help the professor’s chances of survival are limited to hours, and he does not even know enough to know that. So will the respected professor understand that in the Woodsman’s world there are 3 years olds who know more? The professor at this point is not even qualified to step in the Woodsman’s canoe to go home. How do we even begin?
who can say “I want a skill – what a cool idea! Teach me please” I’m inclined to give someone half an hour of my free time and say “Now come back in 20 years for your second lesson” Or? “Yes I too wanted to be an Indian chief when I was 5. And I did something about it at 5 years old”. I sold my soul. I walked away from a job a house a family and money. I spent 40 years learning. And never even got there, being an Indian chief. “Rats! I’m the wrong color!” (I had learned by the thinker of the world there is no such thing as discrimination, and I believed my teachers. ) And getting a PHD is not a weekend class and trade of skills. It’s a lifetime of dedication. Even then, some people get there and others never do. I understand “Yes, but I just want to know the basics!” But the basics of what?

On this forum is a conversation about bugging out. What kind of knife I should have. What skills do I need? Where do I get these skills? Sometimes the same conversation includes a government conspiracy, other times it’s the alien invasion, or the fact zombies have already arrived. How we need to be prepared. The skilled mingle with the trolls, who mingle with the angry, the ignorant, the dreamers, the zonked out, and the crazies. So that is why my first question is “Ok so why are we doing this” Like why do you want my skills, and why do I want yours?

Is the best way to get something, to pay for it? Is it in fact in your power to hand me a PHD? Is it in my power to give you your dream? Or even help? Beyond “Here is a knife, here is a piece of wood, have at it” If I have arrived at adulthood and do not drive, have a credit card, nor know the art of toilet use, how are you going to help me professor? And if you have arrived at adulthood and say to me “I just now decided I’d like to acquire some skills with my hands, that I have not used much in my life” Where would I even begin with you? That you would think was worthwhile? Guessing it requires teaching skills, offered in a safe controlled environment with certified teachers who have insurance. Just for such an exchange to be allowed (legal).
 
Another good reason to hold onto those "Foxfire" collections. I have a section in my scant library that deals with lost skills/arts and try to keep an eye out for such when I go to book sales.--KV
 
Milesofalaska.

So - as I am to understand it. Professors are self absorbed, superficial pricks who sit in chairs and stare at their degrees. While all woodsmen are open armed altruists who know nothing but what is proper and utilitarian.

You big flatterer. ;)

If I were a professor I might say this is a 'straw man' argument, where one defines a position as so weak that it is easily destroyed. Thank God I am not one of those pompus asses. :)

I am kidding.

I do, however, think you have forgotten that professors are humans, come from many different backgrounds and are interested in many many things - just like woodsmen. I have learned at my college how to tig weld (I learned to arc and mig when I was a kid), machining and tooling (from a fellow professor who was in the service like me), a few other languages, (by a professor who knew more about farming than many I grew up with - in a farming town), and a LOT of biology from a professor who learned as a wildlife biologists in the field. In fact, community colleges, were designed to do everything you

I also think that you have greatly restricted the type of knowledge that would be needed in a 'survival' situation - especially if one was protracted. I, for one, would want to move past 'survival' and back into 'thriving' as soon as I could. In order to do this, just like every other culture, building an education system (even if just apprenticeships) would be one of the first things to be established. I am not talking about 'high-faluten' topics either - but metal working, building, basic biology, mathematics to answer many problems, and the like... This seems like it would be along side all of the day to day practical knowledge that would be needed, hunting, fishing, and those types of skills.

I think passing these types of skills back and forth would preserve, thus allow to survive, the skills needed to be human.

However, that is just my two pennies.

TF
 
Wow!

Excellent Thread,

Even the comic strip was thought provoking.


I applaud your desire to help people who wish to trade skills find a practical way of doing it. I definitely agree that as time passes, many once common skills have been, or are currently being lost to the ages.

I too spend as much time as possible in the outdoors. We grow some of our food. We can some of our food. We forage for wild edibles. We try to learn what plants have medicinal properties, nutritional, properties, or other intrinsic value.

To one poster's point, I just love this stuff, but tend to be somewhat solitary. This place is about as social as I get. Partly because I can walk away whenever I want.

I have spent much of my time trying to pay it forward. I believe the best way to carry on traditions is to teach the young. Math dictates they will have the most opportunity to influence others over their lifetimes.

A few years back, I used to go into my old school and take the first grade class out on a mock camping trip on the athletic field. All this with teacher supervision and school approval. We would build shelters, set up tents, cook on camp stoves and fires. You could see that some kids really got it. I kept it pretty basic, hot dogs, marshmellows, hot cocoa, and the like. I just wanted to get them interested in the idea of the outdoors. And get them some exposure to gear and differing techniques at an early age.

But the ever incoaching weight of liability, fear of litigation, and zero tolerance, have brought that to a halt. Even in a rural area like mine. Knives, exposure to potentially explosive camp stoves, fear of someone being burned by a campfire, food allergies, who supplied the hot dogs?, were they safe to eat?, all conspired to shut down my little experiment. I had actually taken a wilderness first responder course, just to be on the safe side.


I believe in the old saying. When you are ready to learn, the teacher will appear.

I see the young as the most viable option. The key is to make it fun, and to get to them before the mind numbing onslaught of video and electronic wizardry overtakes their free will.

Our society places it's value on the wrong objects. That is, and will remain very hard to overcome. Sadly today the Kardasians and Honey Boo-Boo, are given way more importance than growing your own food, or making your own clothes. Most folks just don't see the value in living simply.

Good luck on your quest sir. It is a noble one.
 
I'm not sure the skills are dying. I think there may now be a revival of sorts, more as hobbies now versus a long time ago when people actually needed to use the skills. There seems to be an ever increasing number of primitive skills gatherings (like Rabbit Stick) and survival schools all around the USA. I think all this stuff is even trendy.

As an example, I recently took a class on flint knapping and have read a couple books on the subject. From what I understand, interest in flint knapping has increased exponentially in the last 50 years.
 
I agree on the skills becoming hobbies. I can work cattle and farm still do; however, I know it is a hard way to make a living and the current society does not reward me as well for it when compared to my preferred method of making a living. I still have the skill just not the need to use it frequently.
 
I wonder how much can be learned by those not exposed. It seems that exposure to new things could open a lot of potential learning.

TF
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top