Team Gemini grip review... or should you get an LBTG thoughts. PIC HEAVY

[AZTimT]

I thought I would share some thoughts on this design, feel free to share yours. If I don't get one of the new Light Brigade versions, it will only be because I already have one and am saving up for Blade. If I didn't have one already, I would be all over this offering. It is a design that doesn't really shine until you have spent some time with it. Thinking about it without it in your hands or guessing by comparing it to others mentally won't put your mind in the right place for it because your eyes deceive you with the thought it is just too different to work. Jerry has been at this long enough to have worked out most of the potential flaws in this design and it is very impressive.

This is the closest thing to an TG LE that has been offered and I really like it.

You can never go wrong with linen micarta, in this case tigerhide linen, it is my favorite material in hand after res-c. Oh, and my little rant after watching/searching the exchange is canvas is NOT linen though some don't know the difference, but if your bed sheets were made of canvas instead of linen you sure would. Canvas is ARMY tent material with a rough highly visible texture to it you can go feel at a surplus store. Linen is like your cotton bed sheets in look & texture, much finer, and yes you can feel the difference in your bare hand. Canvas is a close second if linen is not an option though I love the look of bruisers and pumpkins. If you are going to buy a non LB version, micarta is lighter, but on the LB, I suspect the added G10 weight won't be as noticeable in hand.

This is not a light brigade version and it weighs 19.3 oz, so a 1/3 lb or 5.3 oz reduction would be very sweet for carrying on a belt all day.

If you have tried a SAR 4/6/8 and wished for magnum handles, or you want an NMSFNO type blade design without a skull crusher this may be the blade for you. The LBTG is pretty much the equivalent of the SARGE 7 with double guards, a fuller and magnum handles at a much lower price point, micarta for micarta, but that is only because it is a CG not offered in satin. If you don't like the guards, you can mod them off like Al-sheik did, hopefully he will post pics of his in this thread. The top guard really doesn't affect any part of function the way you might think it would, but if you focus on it too much you might give yourself the same mental itch when you think of lice... no real problem, but it still bothers you. The bottom guard could get in the way if you were trying to cut with the flat of the blade on a flat surface like a cutting board. This is not unique to the TG and is more of a talon hole related issue you will find on most all Busse designs other than the Muk or SAR 5. You overcome the talon hole issue simply by cutting with the talon hole overhanging the edge of your flat surface and surprise, surprise, problem solved. You can see my SAR 6/DSF grips for comparison from last year here.

Grip options on the TG... ok, here you go, with pics. The guards require slightly different, wrapping of you your hands, but honestly provides a wider range of grips than all of the other Busse designs I have tried. It is different, and it may even be better, but only time and use will determine that on an individual basis.

These grips are all very comfortable despite the guards.

This is the only one that is a little awkward, but still very usable.

Chopping grip, very comfortable, just like the SAR 4/6/8.

This grip is unique to the TG with the fuller that makes it great for precision work with the tip. I can't use this grip safely or securely with my SAR 6 or SAR 8 since they don't have the fuller and they slip too easily while using this hold. Now you know what the function of the fuller is on a satin blade, aside from making it weigh less.

This one is also unique... sort of a lash grip which I have no clue what to use it for in hand, but it is a secure grip. Maybe if my index finger was injured and I needed to improvise? It does also show that you could easily lash the knife securely to a stick for a spear in an emergency.

Of course I have to include a comparison pic of other options in this range.

For those of you who want a sweet 7" blade currently offered at factory pricing in res-c without the guards at a fraction of the cost... the 711 from SYCKO which is basically an improved remake of the Camp Tramp, is the way to go without breaking the bank. SR101, Res-c and a sweet design at less than half the cost can't be beat for a user. Or, get both!

 

[westfork]

Tim, thanks for all the pics and food for thought. That fuller really sets this blade apart.

 

[oge14]

thank's for the review. the in hand pic's really set it off.

 

[<Flux>]

Awesome! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and posting pictures. If I hadn't already placed my order, this would've pushed me to do so.

BTW, the Satin & Tigerhide TG is a beaut! I am still kicking myself for not ordering the Bowie variant from Knoboganza.

 

[RobStanley]

Nice review mate. The TG is certainly one of those under-rated knives. With the advent of Walking Dead and the new release of the TG, I'm sure it's going to go down as one of the classics.

 

[tiburon]

Thanks for taking the time to post this review AZTimT :thumbup:

 

[stjones]

Excellent read with great pics Tim.
The Gemeni is awesome and your satin CS version is SEXY!!!

 

[fbusmc]

Excellent read with great pics Tim.
The Gemeni is awesome and your satin CS version is SEXY!!!

ah, A TG to the Zombie head.. definitely a game ender! too bad he didn't get there in time. I still say walking dead has got to get an AK to Glenn to do some seriou street clearing ... Love Rick's Python, like the one my dad got me for my 16th birthday.. still got it

 

[Al-Sheikh]

(...) If you don't like the guards, you can mod them off like Al-sheik did, hopefully he will post pics of his in this thread. (...)

With pleasure! Excellent review Tim. I just wish I had a satin beauty like you do :thumbup:

Here the pics.

I have been warned that this mod might cause trouble to the LB version - removing the talon holes might expose a gap between the milled-out handle and the scales that allows moisture to enter and eventually cause rust. I personally think this mod is still possible, but you have to be careful not to remove too much of the talon holes. As a reference I use Jerry's original post when he introduced the LB treatment. Luckily he showed a TG LB without scales: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/845708-The-Science-Behind-The-quot-Light-Brigade-quot-Series-%28Cool-Pics%29?highlight=light+brigade

 

[sar5]

Thanks for a great post!

 

[uyotg]

I have been warned that this mod might cause trouble to the LB version - removing the talon holes might expose a gap between the milled-out handle and the scales that allows moisture to enter and eventually cause rust. I personally think this mod is still possible, but you have to be careful not to remove too much of the talon holes. As a reference I use Jerry's original post when he introduced the LB treatment. Luckily he showed a TG LB without scales: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/845708-The-Science-Behind-The-quot-Light-Brigade-quot-Series-%28Cool-Pics%29?highlight=light+brigade

Removing just the talon holes won't expose the any of those gaps at all. If anyone's having trouble determining what can and can't be removed, look at it this way: The gaps are only under the handles, so don't remove any of the handle material. I estimate the walls of that "I-beam" treatment to be about 1/6" thick, referencing Jerry's pictures (rivet holes are 0.25", and the walls are about 1/3 of that), and it looks like the wall outlines the whole perimeter of the handles. It's possible that's not true, but then again, that wouldn't make any sense at all because it'd create a lot of weakness from lack of support under the handles.

 

[AZTimT]

Here we go gang!!! The following pics should give you an idea of what we have been working on. . . . .

This first pic shows the "Light Brigade" treatment on a Team Gemini. . . .

Here's a cut-away of the handle-lightening work with the Light Brigade anti-vibration web that spans the entire inside profile of the handle while producing an I-Beam effect. This greatly reduces the weight of the handle without turning it into a hollowed out tuning fork. . . Very Cool ! ! ! ! :thumbup:

What isn't shown in this cut-away is the fact that we will be using an end mill with radiussed corners to ensure that there aren't any stress risers introduced into the design. The end mill used on the knife in the pic did not have this radiussed design. (You can see the radius in the above pic along the inside edges.)

The next cool feature is the HUGE diameter shallow hollow grind (42" diameter that's bigger than a hula hoop!!!!!) used on the primary bevel. This ensures a much lighter blade while allowing for a wicked sharp edge. This large diameter also greatly decreases the tendency that smaller diameter hollow grinds have of binding in wood when chopping.

Here's a pic that shows the difference in geometry between a convex bevel and the new Light Brigade shallow hollow ground bevel . . .

The Light Brigade treatment reduced the overall weight of the Team Gemini by approx. 1/3 pound!!!!!

We are looking into "treating" some of our old school models as well as introducing some new designs with these features.

Yours in light weight and bad assed INFI,:thumbup:

Jerry


.

With pleasure! Excellent review Tim. I just wish I had a satin beauty like you do :thumbup:

Here the pics.

I have been warned that this mod might cause trouble to the LB version - removing the talon holes might expose a gap between the milled-out handle and the scales that allows moisture to enter and eventually cause rust. I personally think this mod is still possible, but you have to be careful not to remove too much of the talon holes. As a reference I use Jerry's original post when he introduced the LB treatment. Luckily he showed a TG LB without scales: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/845708-The-Science-Behind-The-quot-Light-Brigade-quot-Series-%28Cool-Pics%29?highlight=light+brigade

The problem area with the mod seems like it would be the top on yours where the handle was ground down (like uyotg mentioned) if it were an LB, but not the bottom from what I can see by comparison of yours and Jerry's pics you linked to. I'm half tempted to mod mine similar to yours, but I don't have a big enough reason to just yet. I'm not sure if making both sides look like the bottom of yours with what is left of the talon hole would work for comfortable use on the top?

Thanks for the comments & thoughts everyone, keep em coming. The other thought I have is whether or not the hollow grind appeals to me. I think the hogged out handle is sweet, but maybe just a flat grind up to the fuller would work best for me. The full flat on my FBM LE is great for chopping & splitting yet easy to remove on the rare occasions that it sticks. How well would the shallow hollow grind actually work for chopping/splitting functions?
The TG's that Al-Sheikh and I have are like the one on the left, the new ones are like on the right... what about splitting the difference or is it going to be sweet as is? What do you think?

 

[uyotg]

Picture's worth a thousand words...

Here, I've superimposed a picture of the production Light Brigade Team Gemini over the blank from Jerry's post on the Light Brigade tech. Assuming that blank and the production knives have no differences whatsoever, this looks to be pretty accurate.

As you can see, the whole perimeter of the handles are supported by steel, including at the front of the handles (right behind the ricasso). From this perspective, it's difficult to tell if the same is true of the rear end, but I think it's a safe assumption to say it is (but a more nonsense assumption to say it isn't).

That said, here's what you can grind off. Yellow is the wall, the points of contact between the steel and the scales; orange is where the gap is.

You can't grind anything over the oranges, and grinding over the yellows is a big risk as there isn't much room for play there, and who knows what else could happen through some obscure phenomenon of engineering destruction.

I also have a slight problem with using this picture as a reference for anything other than the grinds:

On the completed TGs, you can tell that there's a bit of flat between where the primary grind starts and the fuller ends. On these, the grinds go all the way to the border of the fullers. Jerry made these just to demonstrate deep dish shallow grind, but these aren't accurate of either the TG or the Light Brigade TG.

Tim, I'm still on the same conundrum as you over the hollow grind...

 

[westfork]

Tim,
I just unpacked a TG from the Dayton show that has liners under the handle scales - The grip on the TG is great, but for large hands the liners just make it fantastic! They used a heavier looking fastener for the scales also, maybe for the extra girth.

 

[AZTimT]

Uyotg, the cutaway pic looks like two parts of the same TG blank to me. The tip looks to have been cut off before the hollow grind work was done to the back portion then the tip was turned to point backwards and is held together by a little magnet. Seems fairly accurate, and there could be up to about an inch missing based on dimension differences, or I could just be way off.

westfork, now you know you can't tease us like that. That linered TG needs to not be shy and make an appearance here now, along with all of it's siblings.

 

[cricketdave]

As for the hollow grind and chopping or splitting I have used several other knives with deeper hollow grinds for that with no problems at all. Mainly the Chris Reeve green beret, yeah I know if you blink at it wrong its supposed to break but that wasn't even remotely my experience with it. Chopped and split wood just fine, actually better than my ESEE 6 did.

 

[uyotg]

Uyotg, the cutaway pic looks like two parts of the same TG blank to me. The tip looks to have been cut off before the hollow grind work was done to the back portion then the tip was turned to point backwards and is held together by a little magnet. Seems fairly accurate, and there could be up to about an inch missing based on dimension differences, or I could just be way off.

That's possible... hard to say since the background is so blurry and obscured. The area behind the fuller on the hollow ground one also looks wider (by blade width, not by thickness) to me than the one on the left, but it could just be perspective. Suffice it to say, it doesn't really mean much to point out these observations

As for the hollow grind and chopping or splitting I have used several other knives with deeper hollow grinds for that with no problems at all. Mainly the Chris Reeve green beret, yeah I know if you blink at it wrong its supposed to break but that wasn't even remotely my experience with it. Chopped and split wood just fine, actually better than my ESEE 6 did.

Being a heavy TG user as you are, I would take your word over any other's on the TG's hollow grind, even if you haven't used it yet... but I'm not into hollow grinds for aesthetics too. And before I get too off topic, one thing that the hollow grind could help out with is the blade grip:

Seems like the hollow grind would give a nice place to grab if the fuller is too close to the spine/your palm for your liking, something you don't have on the convexed TGs.

 

[westfork]

westfork, now you know you can't tease us like that. That linered TG needs to not be shy and make an appearance here now, along with all of it's siblings.

Well Tim, It is just like your Alaska-Ganza TG except for the handle treatment. It has black canvas which has been smoothed at the edges, yellow liners, and different fasteners. The yellow liners make a nice accent and don't stand out as boldly as these pictures in the bright sun would indicate. Really fills the hand well and the canvas is nice and grippy. Here it is with its cuz from the Knob-O-Ganza:

 

[FTR-14c]

Great thread, Thanks

 

[roenman]

Nice stuff!
The yellow liners rock.