Tell if A Contractor Is Truthful About His Installation Of Bathroom Tile & Window

annr said:
Given interior and exterior problems, it sounds like the exterior problem should take priority in terms of repair?
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Yes, but if you cover it up it won't be a big deal either.

I would wrap plastic over it and fold it into the j-channel on ea side of the window and use a clothespin or gator clamps to hold it in the J
 
I had another funny comment of his that might give you a chuckle: "I gave you that wooden casing in the bathroom for no charge because I was 'trying to do the right thing'." He went on to add that I could ask ANYONE in the business and they would tell me that when you have a window replaced, the original casing is ALWAYS put back--yeah, a 50 year-old casing in a shower--stretches the credibility meter. (I suspect he damaged my casing and had to put up another one...and it went on from there.)

The horror of this is that he is: registered, licensed and has an A+ rating with the BBB. My pictures don't lie.
 
Ya, all of $3 worth of casing.

In an old remodel I do try to reuse the casing, assuming it can be removed without damage and the new component is same size or smaller. Because typically you can't match it.

But I have never seen wood casing used in a shower around here.

Sadly licensing doesn't really govern workmanship.
 
st8yd said:
In an old remodel I do try to reuse the casing, assuming it can be removed without damage and the new component is same size or smaller. Because typically you can't match it.
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This is exactly what I told him, when he wanted to debate the worthiness of the casing, but not in the freakin' shower.

Plastic, clamps, ladder and help lined up for this pm!:) (Is this what they call a 'learning experience'? Yup.
 
I receive this message today (below). Does it sound like our contractor has come around to doing it to a better standard? My impression is that he has. (BTW everyone who has seen his tile job, with the exception of the window, thinks that it looks very good). I can see the advantages of giving this guy another shot, since we ultimately can still re-do it.

"I should have enough tile to piece together back into window and remove the interior casing if you decide to go all tile.The communication gap was a result of me not conveying the correct info to you. I understand now what you were expecting,that tile would go around the jamb right into window and not up to the casing. What ever you decide to do we will complete it the way you want."
 
Good that's probably the best solution if he'll do it right, but his tile job was nothing special from what I saw in your pictures.
 
Thanks. I can see the pros of having the same guy do the job from start to finish. (As I mentioned I DO like the him.) Do you care to comment of the quality of the tile work? I don't know what to look for, I have no feel for this stuff.

(I was also considering the resale ramifications, i.e., when a buyer enters the bathroom are they going go find some strange looking hodgepodge of stuff hanging on the wall that will make them suspicious or turn them off?)

BTW the plastic is up and running:).
 
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It's part of my job to know these things, I shouldn't have stirred the pot.

Good on the plastic, maybe he'll pay closer attention to that also.
 
When I have work I don't do. I research it and try to know whats going on. The tile work looks here. These ppl can tell you what crap you may need to fix or horrors that may show latter if not don't correctly. How did he waterproof you showee anyway? Red guard,latercite some sort of liquid membrane?
Or Moisture barrior behind the Backerboard.? Or none at all?

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php?
 
I install windows every week and about half of the time you can put the casing back but often you can`t.I would never have thought to put wood trim on a window is a shower stall tile right back to the window .Sure it sucks to do but thats the right way to do it if it is going to get wet. We have done a few windows in shower stalls over the years and I have learned to put a smaller window in higher up in the wall and use glass block windows and tile when you can .Keep the final payment until he is done and you have someone else check it out. By the way the "BBB" is just a huge load of crap they sell a A+ rating for around $300 ,and they will let you pay to remove bad ratings.You can look it up online.
 
I finally heard from the contractor--2 days after sending photos of the window and telling him that we put up the plastic to protect the house (and it has been raining, power outage today):
"We are on a job that we should be finished in a couple of weeks. We will schedule to do the work that is convenient for you.
We should be able to do all the work in one day. Once you know how you want the tile (bull nose on window side or or wall side)."

I think that two weeks is a long time to wait for this guy to get back to finishing a job that he left half-a**ed in the first place? (I also think some hint of an applogy would have been in order?)

In the course of speaking with him he has gone from: (1) I can't do the all tile due to water damage (not watertight), to (2) it won't look good because of the construction of the house; to (3) it won't look good because I don't have any matching tile (though I asked him to buy extra); to (4) now I have enough tile. I had asked him to send me a sample photo of a finished window (so that I could see exactly where he planned to put the tile). Finally I got him to say that the bull nose would be either window or wall side. So I asked about how he would do the corners and I couldn't make out what he was saying. (Bear in mind he had already rejected a photo I showed him as "I can't do that in your context.")

Personally I think that the outcome may look weird because he did not start the tile from the left corner with a full piece of tile-- the tile is asymmetric around the window.

Do any of you guys have any photos of how this should look? I've looked online and most of the images are off-axis or cropped so it's hard to see exactly what was done.
 
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thebrain said:
Keep the final payment until he is done and you have someone else check it out. By the way the "BBB" is just a huge load of crap they sell a A+ rating for around $300 ,and they will let you pay to remove bad ratings.You can look it up online.
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This makes perfect sense and didn't know that about BBB, yikes.
How would someone check it? And what to check? I mean can't he hide a host of sins behind the tile?
 
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This is one of those things I was reffering to earlier. I would have rather seen the tile centered on the window (a focal point) rather than centered on the wall, in this case the corners are not the stronger focal point. Anyway that's too late.
Regardless the cuts have to be neat and clean regardless which side the bull nose is. If you put the bull nose on the face it will look like the window is picture framed, kind of a trim look, which would probably look nicer. If you bull nose the inside, it will just look like an opening in the wall.

If he doesn't show up with a diamond saw don't let him do the work. However, this is not a guarantee it will be done nicely.

Time frame, well not much you can do. Can't really force him but, I would definitely let him know of your dissatisfaction, and pressure him a little.
 
I haven't read through the entire thread so forgive me if I repeat what has been said so far. This is a crappy job. Caulking should never be used as a first line of defence against water penetration. In this instance, caulking just hides poor workmanship. Caulking eventually fails, and this is where the fail-safe membranes kick in. Replacing a window is a huge deal and has to be done properly. The window rough-in must be lapped in a tough material like Bakor Blue Skin, which is then tied into the existing exterior membrane [e.g. Tyvek, building paper etc.] Once the window is inserted and fastened, all the exterior cladding must be replaced along with trim etc. From the inside, all wet areas [e.g. shower walls etc]. must use a waterproof or cementitious wall board [over your studs, insulation, and vapour barrier]. Then, I recommend a membrane like Schluter Ditra be installed [for tile zones], then grout, then tile. Each one of these layers from inside - out is meant to stop water into the interior cavity of the wall. Caulk is only used to seal small gaps etc. It's more of a cosmetic thing b/c you should have the mechanical barriers that actually prevent water penetration. That's the way it's done. Get a building permit too, it's a minor inconvenience, but the building inspector is there to insure the job meets code. If possible, I would use tile on any returns leading to a sill, jamb, or head. The whole job should look neat and professional. Picking a contractor is a tough job, but in the future, call an architect and get them to recommend one, or the city ... and then get references. I'd be very weary of this job; poor workmanship/assembly could lead to major water/mould damage.
 
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redpoint said:
The window rough-in must be lapped in a tough material like Bakor Blue Skin, which is then tied into the existing exterior membrane [e.g. Tyvek, building paper etc.] Once the window is inserted and fastened, all the exterior cladding must be replaced along with trim etc. From the inside, all wet areas [e.g. shower walls etc]. must use a waterproof or cementitious wall board [over your studs, insulation, and vapour barrier]. Then, I recommend a membrane like Schluter Ditra be installed [for tile zones], then grout, then tile.
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Thank you for the excellent information. I have a very bad feeling about this whole thing. If the quality of what I see is any indication of what I don’t see, I’m afraid that I have serious trouble.
There was no permit-- something I don’t know how/when to address, either with him or directly with the city. (I assumed he was doing what was required and I didn’t ask.)

His contract states that he:
-Remove existing window ... and install new vinyl replace window and seal tight.
-Remove all tile and backer board and tile in tube area down to studs
-Install new cement board over same area where tile was removed.
-Install new tile over new cement board and grout.

It sounds like he:
-may or may not have tied the window into the existing exterior membrane, etc.
-did not fix the exterior
-did put in cement wall board (this I saw)
-may or may not have used a membrane under the tile

Does anything else stand out?

Bottom line: does it sound like I need to tear this down to see if it was done right, that means in essence, re-do the job? Do you suggest calling the building inspector?


I liked your suggestions about finding the contractor (and I know you couldn’t weed through the entire thread) but we have used this guys 3 times already. He sub-specialty is masonry and waterproofing so one would think he has a clue about water control? On paper he has the credentials, including a Construction Supervisor Liscense so it was logical to call him, but what a mistake!!! We were hasty to get water damage under control.....:(
 
Well it's difficult to tell what's happening beyond the wall/tile etc. All I see is crappy workmanship on the outside. He may have clad the window rough-in in building paper or Blue Skin - it's hard to tell. It's not your fault, finding a good contractor is really hard, there are lots of great ones, but probably more horrible ones. A good job has to be tight on the inside and outside. Making something look good is hard so maybe he did a decent job behind what we see - hard to say. If he seems to have decent credentials, you may want to have a "heart to heart" with him - "listen this work is unacceptable, for a guy with credentials and a reputation such as yours ..." He must recognize that it looks pretty bad!?

It depends on what a municipality requires re: building permits, but most people try to evade them. The fact remains, in most municipalities, a BP is required and it's in place to ensure the job gets done to code. You wouldn't believe the stuff that gets built - it's shocking. At this point, I wouldn't mention it to the municipality, but you might want to hire a third party home inspector [like you might hire for a house purchase] and get him to look it over. You might want to research this carefully and find someone who really knows his stuff. A building envelope engineer could also check this out pretty quickly. You've spent a lot of money so it may be time to get a professional's opinion.

Keep us up to date.
 
The caulk looking like crap is just a huge red flag IMO. I haven't done alot of construction but have done enough when job market fell to pieces. One of the things I was taught about caulking in bathrooms is the magic of painters tape. Outline where you are going to caulk, be it the frame of a glass shower door, a tub to the wall, etc. Outline it with the tape and caulk, then pull the tape away. Makes it look beautiful. The idea was, if someone took the time to do something that simple with that manner of professionalism, it was usually a good indicator that he did things right "behind the scenes" also.
 
redpoint said:
but you might want to hire a third party home inspector [like you might hire for a house purchase] and get him to look it over. You might want to research this carefully and find someone who really knows his stuff. A building envelope engineer could also check this out pretty quickly. You've spent a lot of money so it may be time to get a professional's opinion.
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I agree that I need a expert opinion to establish the quality of the installation. I learned that home inspectors in this State are legally prohibited from making these kinds of assessments. I haven't had success finding an envelope engineer--as luck would have it the only residential company folded. I had one window installer to the house and he didn't seem to have any idea about special treatment of shower windows....

We have decided to have the tile demolished and rebuilt (correctly, we hope) and the tile specialist does not do windows. He is not sure that he would be able to determine if the window is installed correctly, even after removing the casing, etc. You mentioned
The window rough-in must be lapped in a tough material like Bakor Blue Skin, which is then tied into the existing exterior membrane [e.g. Tyvek, building paper etc.]
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Do any of you know if these types of window installation measures may be confirmed (from the interior after demo, or from the exterior before the flashing is replaced) without removing the window itself? or does this mean that the window should also be removed and reinstalled?
 
going to make somebody mad ...
Sounds to me he is not much of a contractor.
Bathrooms were my specialty for years.
Having 100's of references and letters of appreciation.
You can just look at most bathrooms and know the extent of any issues.
Plus once one is gutted ... you pretty much have a blank canvas to work on.
Most states have HOME IMPROVEMENT LAWS ... might want to make sure all is legal etc.
 
Every tile should be perfect ... no cracks or tilts or wide grout spots.
Tile is an art ... and should be done to exact standards.
there is no "can't see it from my house" involved.
W/C
 
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