Tell me again why we need a knife??

runningboar said:
Even more seriuosly, why would you be lost long enough to eat all the food you have with you to the point that subsetance hunting and gathering is needed? I love woods and primitive skills and try to learn as much as possible but what happened to your bic and firesteel, if my life is dependent on getting a friction fire going I am in some serious merde.

People, I am not advocating everyone leave their knife at home, I have carried one everyday of my life for over 30 years. I am sayng to realistically look at what you may actually need it for and what knife will actually suit those purposes. Chris
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Like I said, it's just one part of a very important kit. But all the pieces work together to help you take care of yourself. You can't know that you won't need it anymore than you can know when you'll get into a survival situation, anymore than you can know the length of time of a survival situation. I definitely carry about 4 means of making fire, spread out over my person, but I still want to be able to start fire with friction if I have to (not that it wouldn't suck).

IF I could only have a limited number of items, would I want (for example) a metal pot before a knife? Or a satellite phone? Almost certainly. But I'm not limited.

My only point is we have no idea what will happen or how long it will last, so a blade is nice insurance.
 
There can be quite a few real life survival scenarios that would each require different "tools" for best outcomes. Middle of the night, auto break-down lonely road,...Big city can't speak the language, hostile locals,....Capsized boat in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico,...Scenic overlook, slip down an enbankment, broken leg, PSK in the trunk,...Dennis Kusinich elected President, terrorists planning a party,.... oops, didn't mean to slip that last one in!
 
Hang_them_later said:
I don’t understand how someone can put a cellular phone higher on the list than a knife in a real life survival situation. You have to cover the basics before trusting something so unreliable as a cellular phone. Bring a cellular phone, it may work if you are lucky but don’t forget the knife and the matches!
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What exactly is a REAL LIFE SURVIVAL SITUATION, for me it is getting lost and having to hunker down for the night, no knife needed. I live on the east coast of the United States, cell coverage is actually very good, so I just call my wife on my cell and tell her I am going to walk out in the morning. This has actually happened more than once out wheeling and a cell phone came in much handier than a knife. Chris
 
This thread reminds me of the old real estate saying ... location, location, location. I live in central North Carolina and there are not to many areas around me where I can't walk out in a half a day. Around here in a survival situation a cell phone may be of more value. If I can call some one and tell them I am in trouble we're not talking about hundreds of square miles, but more likely several hundred acres. In this situation then yes cell phone, extra food, water and some type of shelter/ extra clothing would be higher on my list of needs than a knife.
But if i were in Alaska/northern Canada were I couldn't walk out for several days or weeks it would be different. No cell phone service and the geography would make the search area much larger. I don't think rescue would likely come as quickly. In this type of situation a knife that can help me to make shelter, make fire, procure food, and make tools becomes the most important item I have.
Since I re-watched "the Edge" last night let me also say that I want my knife so I can make my bear spear too!(jk)

Chad
 
I enjoy that movie but boy, that little knife he was given sure did a lot of work!

Its very entertaining though, and certainly inspired me to get a good PSK together.
 
I agree with you Bro---A good knife will never be as valuable if you lose your cool and panic.

However----The knife (any knife) gives the person carrying it a sense of security that few items can match(other than a firearm).

I think most of us here just "feel" better knowing we have a good knife with us-and that allows us to enjoy whatever activity we find ourselves doing more.

Mora or Busse----both provide that feeling.

I do not think there are a lot of RAMBO types here--I think most of these people actually use their knives and I respect their opinion.

As I respect yours as well!!!

Great Post:D

Dr.Bill
 
MEAT57 said:
But if i were in Alaska/northern Canada were I couldn't walk out for several days or weeks it would be different. No cell phone service and the geography would make the search area much larger. I don't think rescue would likely come as quickly. In this type of situation a knife that can help me to make shelter, make fire, procure food, and make tools becomes the most important item I have.
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How the hell did you get out there without proper gear? And if you are flying over the remote far north in your antique bushplane that didn't follow it's flightplan did crash and strand you, and your pack burned up or sank in the wreckage before you could grab it and escape, then yes the knife would definitely be more important than the cell phone but not more important than the strobe and PLB I would have in my pocket.....since we are fantasizing. :rolleyes: Chris
 
runningboar said:
Just exactly how much of these discussions is fueled by machismo and fantasy, IMO pretty much all of it. What is a real life survival situation, and if your in one why do you need a big knife, or any knife for that matter. I think there are a lot of things on my list far above any knife.

If you are lost, chances are one maybe two nights is about all you will spend in the out of doors. What do you need a knife for, where I live I don't need one to build a fire, if I am lost long enough to need to build traps I am in very serious trouble, thinking about self defense is almost stupid, again if it comes down to my pocket knife against a determined foe, man or beast, I am in dire straights. If you are injured to the point that you can't walk out, then I would rather have a whistle than a knife.
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Mental masturbation?:jerkit::D My wife likes that analogy...:D

I keep a standard list, some more expansive than others, but they all have a listing of "essential" items for me. We just spent all day yesterday hiking and bouldering around at Enchanted State park here in TX. The only knife I used was my Spyderco Military to cut some sandwiches in half...did I "need" my SAK Outdrider, Fehrman Last Chance or Fallknive WM-1? Nope. Knives are a hobby, but they are also just standard items I throw in the truck, pack or EDC as a habit.

I also CCW and have never used it, but when I'm out and can legally carry, I always pack it...they are numerous items I use more often or would most likely be more productive outdoors or in an emergency situation, but it's a part of my "essentials" list that I've just worked to make a habit of carrying them.

I try not to establish a priority list, as each item is critical in their own right and some are more important than others depending on specific situations.

I use 550 cord, 100mph tape, LED Flashlight, First Aid kit and a good water bottle/bladder with water filter much more often than I do a whistle, signal mirror, compass or emergency shelter; that doesn't mean I would forego packing them, they are an integral part of my "essentials" as is a good, quality fixed blade knife and CCW.

Granted, this is a knife forum after all, but with proper planning (including your EDC), there's no need to have the "you're in a survival situation with just X, Y or Z" scenario.

If I'm planning a backpacking trip I do balance weight with items I consider essential for redundancy. Knives, cordage, fire-making and signaling (I also consider water essential, but it encompasses a good carrier and filter/purification methods, and yes on a planned trip I do have redundancy in those areas as well).

Ignoring the all-in-one compromises, you can't use a knife for a whistle and you can't use a whistle for a knife; you may not use or need either for the majority of your backpacking/hiking trips, but when you need either, you need to have them on you.

ROCK6
 
runningboar said:
1. A detailed plan, with coordinates if possible, and a time schedule, and how long before help is called left with a dependable person before you leave.
2. A cell phone
3. A map and compass and know how to use it
4.The best clothes and shoes/boots you can afford with extra layers in a daypack
5. The ability to make fire now
6. Water and/or a way to purify it
7. Something to use for overhead cover, a siltarp, space balnket, poncho or the like
8. A signalling device, at the least a whistle, better yet a PLB, flaregun with flares, or a can of orange smoke
9. A few power bars or the like
10. The ability to stay calm and think, mental preparedness
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That's a great "real world" list.
Problem is not about the knife, it is generally about not having most of the above.
I would also stress that orientering skills are essential and generally taken far too lightly: if you don't get lost... you're not lost.
 
Good post runningboar, you have helped me decide to NOT buy a new knife. I am sure the two handfuls of knives I already own will cover all my bases......my bank account and I thank you!
 
6,
I started this thread because of all the threads here lately telling people if they don't have x, y or z knife they could not survive, or condescendingly saying that you may trust your life to a 5 dollar piece of crap but not me. The cold hard facts are a 2 dollar paring knife from dollar general is probably good enough.

I love knives and carry them everywhere and in every kit and would not think of leaving home without one, but ridiculing people for not agreeing with my choice of knife is arrogant and elitest. Chris
 
I've been stuck on remote airstrips in the Aleutians waiting on a helicopter, with my gear already stored on the boat I was going to. I had shore leave in the Pribilof's for several hours, to find that our skipper forgot about us until after dusk.
Don't condescend to think that because you haven't had it happen that it can't.
In the first instance, there was no communication equipment around. I had a SOG Tomcat and pried my way into a toolshed, which was the only structure around. In the second, we weren't allowed to take shipboard radios on shore and I had an Old Timer that I used to assist me in climbing a snow bank.
 
Thank You, thank you, thank you for this post runningboar.

It is about time someone inject a little reality into this forum.
This is the main reason I get frustrated sometimes with this forum, because people talk about there knife choices as if they are going to get lost and have to survive for a month, and there knife is going to be the only thing keeping them alive.

When in reality(real life survival), like you said, if anyone has even the slightest clue as to were you're going, it is unlikely that you will have to stay more than two nights in the wilderness.

How on earth did our ancestors survive with there stone knives, and no seeming guarantee to be taken to civilization within a week? Of course, if you do need to use your knife, then the right one might make life a little easier, but if you have the knowledge and skills you will be able to do without some superknife, and live to see your family again. Wheres a moron with a sword might not live through one night in the outdoors.

P.S. I understand that this is a knife forum, and we all like talking about knives, me included, but please don't tell someone that they will surely die because they are/are not using a certain knife. Bushcraft, and knives are a hobby and when talking about knives, certain ones may be a bit more beneficial than others in those hobbies, but when it comes to real life survival, the reality is, your knife is probably one of your least important items. So, it would be nice if we could unblurr the lines between real life survival, fictional could happen survival, bushcraft, and personal preference, when talking about knives on this forum.
 
mymindisamob said:
I've been stuck on remote airstrips in the Aleutians waiting on a helicopter, with my gear already stored on the boat I was going to. I had shore leave in the Pribilof's for several hours, to find that our skipper forgot about us until after dusk.
Don't condescend to think that because you haven't had it happen that it can't.
In the first instance, there was no communication equipment around. I had a SOG Tomcat and pried my way into a toolshed, which was the only structure around. In the second, we weren't allowed to take shipboard radios on shore and I had an Old Timer that I used to assist me in climbing a snow bank.
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Did you have a daypack, why not, did someone know where you were and would come for you in a matter of hours?

Hardly condescending and hardly a situation that you need to walk weeks to get out, build snares, traps, fishbaskets and fireboards. I won't condescend if you don't make mountains of mole hills. Chris
 
runningboar said:
6,
I started this thread because of all the threads here lately telling people if they don't have x, y or z knife they could not survive, or condescendingly saying that you may trust your life to a 5 dollar piece of crap but not me. The cold hard facts are a 2 dollar paring knife from dollar general is probably good enough.

I love knives and carry them everywhere and in every kit and would not think of leaving home without one, but ridiculing people for not agreeing with my choice of knife is arrogant and elitest. Chris
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Never mind my last post. You just said what I was trying to say, much better. In fact you pretty much took the words right out of my mouth, but in a better way than I could have said it.
 
runningboar said:
I started this thread because of all the threads here lately telling people if they don't have x, y or z knife they could not survive, or condescendingly saying that you may trust your life to a 5 dollar piece of crap but not me. The cold hard facts are a 2 dollar paring knife from dollar general is probably good enough.

I love knives and carry them everywhere and in every kit and would not think of leaving home without one, but ridiculing people for not agreeing with my choice of knife is arrogant and elitest. Chris
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This, I agree with very much. I've not ever grasped a debate about which knife is the true holy grail or would be more likely to 'save your life'. I use and enjoy knives a lot, but they are worthless without knowledge and experience, just like every other piece of kit. I like my mora 510 because it will do what I need a knife to do. What I need/want.

Certain aspects are still fun to debate as steel junkies, but having something is what will likely make the difference.
 
runningboar said:
Did you have a daypack, why not, did someone know where you were and would come for you in a matter of hours?

Hardly condescending and hardly a situation that you need to walk weeks to get out, build snares, traps, fishbaskets and fireboards. I won't condescend if you don't make mountains of mole hills. Chris
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I have had coworkers stranded 1-2 weeks on remote airstrips because of storms, etc. In addition, in many of the helicopters and bushplanes you are not allowed to carry gear since getting workers to and from boats is the focus. If you seriously think that I'm making mountains of mole hills out of situations that arise while working in Alaska, you have much to learn. You don't have to crash to be stranded.
Loss of life and limb is very frequent up there, especially in crab season.
 
The most likely situation I would be in is to trip/fall and break a leg or ankle preventing me from getting back that day.
Would I need a big knife? Probably not but I'd still want one I could depend on !
The main thing for me would be the comfort in having one with me for the night knowing that there are Cougar and bear in the area ( roll your eye's if ya like everyone has their own opinion ). The comfort I get from the knife is like that from having a fire, most times of the year I could probably get through the night in a quickly thrown together debris shelter but you get that security blanket feeling from having a fire !!!

In saying all this maybe a better reason is because I like knives, they are my hobby along with hiking, and if you are happy with a Mora or made in China SAK then that's ok but I work hard and think I deserve something a little better !!!! JMO !!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
pitdog said:
In saying all this maybe a better reason is because I like knives, they are my hobby along with hiking, and if you are happy with a Mora or made in China SAK then that's ok but I work hard and think I deserve something a little better !!!! JMO !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Come on brother, nobody is saying that you shouldn't have a very nice knife in the style you prefer. Go back and read your thread, Knives you trust, as soon as someone mentioned a Mora they were pounced on and ridiculed. I have asked many times what people need such tough knives for and am treated like I am an imbecile, I feel like Sly Stallone not knowing how to use the sea shells. If someone would just say that is what I like, it would be enough for me without running others down or trying to come up with false justification. Chris

I think I will leave this thread to run it's course, I knew I was starting a sh!t storm but felt someone needed to say it.
 
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