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This has been my experience as well. I enjoy vg10 but it is a bit rigid, I'd be worried about snapping a section of the blade out if it twists in the wood.
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Temperance 2 and the Fallkniven F1. HELP ME!!!
- Thread starter cab10
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This has been my experience as well. I enjoy vg10 but it is a bit rigid, I'd be worried about snapping a section of the blade out if it twists in the wood.
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I have not handled a Temperance but it is a sweet looking knife. I do however own a F1 and S1 and I don't hold back when I beat on them. I have not had any chipping problems with them but I can understand that it may be possible as the factory edge is very fine. Once you get the first sharpening out of the way I don't think that chipping will be an issue.
Just for fun I took the F1 out back and pounded it through this hard ass piece of fatwood. I was aiming for as many knots as I could find.
This knife has been sharpened and started off shaving sharp and was still shaving after this session. No chips.
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Just for fun I took the F1 out back and pounded it through this hard ass piece of fatwood. I was aiming for as many knots as I could find.
This knife has been sharpened and started off shaving sharp and was still shaving after this session. No chips.
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Check out the Fallkniven A1 destruction test on you tube. Its pretty crazy.
You can skip the beginning and get right to the part where he hammers it through the steel bar.
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I'm certainly not saying that it couldn't handle it in moderation. I'm just saying that I, personally wouldn't designate any of my vg10 blades as choppers. I'd prefer to use something better suited for it. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.
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Perhaps you didn't realize that you are pounding the edge into the wood, not the 5mm thick spine. Impact toughness plays more a factor than spine thickness does. Edge thickness and grind certainly play a role.
The F1 was designed as a survival knife, not a batoning knife. Just because it may be "widely used" to baton does not mean that it was designed for that or that it is the best choice for same. As I said, I wouldn't worry about light batoning with either knife, but there is a reason why axes are not made of VG-10, 3G or many other steels but rather made of softer more impact tough steels. The current F1 is laminated and the cladding is 420J2 which provides greater flexibility strength of the blade. It also provides Fallkniven a lower cost of materials and makes it easier to grind. The cladding does not extend down to the edge and thus offers no added resistance to edge chipping from impact during batoning or from torquing the blade during removal.
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as much as I'm a Spyderco fanboy, I think overall I would take the F1. Depends on how you are carrying, but the temperance is just a much larger package for barely any more blade, and the F1 looks to still have decent ergos.
yablanowitz
Platinum Member
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My only experience with VG-10 steel has been with Spyderco blades. They tend to run their steels on the hard side, which gives them better edge retention at the expense of being a bit more brittle than they would be if run softer. I have no idea what hardness the Fallkniven might be or how prone to chipping it may be. I do not consider Spyderco knives to be poorly made. I do believe that if your problem solving skills top out at "beat it with a stick", what I consider a good knife for my use will probably not be suitable for you.
Well I asked for advice and I get some destruction testing!! Absolutely awesome thanks!
But I am glad you didn't snap your blade. Lol!
To me it's an issue of what's the right tool for the right job.
There's no problem with batoning a knife, it's not lazy or crude or anything else. It's a means of using the right tool to perform the specific task.
You wouldn't use a machete to do surgery and you wouldn't use a scalpel to chop through vegetation. My point being we all know some knives are good for one thing and some for another, I didn't intend for us to all fall out about it lol.
Anyway, I have decided the custom route is the only way to get what I want- watch this space!!
Ok: you don't understand how stresses in materials work. The spine thickness of a knife is a very significant factor while batoning.
This is like saying "Paris is the capital of France, not a French city."
The knife was designed so that crashed aircrew can stay warm in the arctic circle even without an axe.This means batoning wood and then feathersticking it for tinder. This is what countless F1's have been used to do. They have not exploded. You are being silly.
Yes, there are reasons axes are not made of VG10. However you don't what they are. You are using bs to justify your opinion.
To give an idea of how silly you are being, just consider the butt of the of the F1's handle: the tang is exposed so that you can use it as a hammer. This is not a knife that is meant to avoid whacking wood!
It's nice that you imagine that you are a very clever fellow - I'm glad for you, really. But if you think that a 5mm spine convex grind knife of laminated steel designed for survival in Scandinavian forests is not designed to baton, then I'm afraid I do not share your opinion of your intelligence.
Really - what do you people imagine the knife is designed to do? Spread jam on crackers until the pilot is rescued? And if the knife is too delicate to baton wood, why isn't the pilot issued a $15 Mora Clipper instead? Because getting firewood is pretty important to staying alive inside the Arctic circle!
Hello? Mr Reality is saying "Look at me!" Look at the d-test. Batoning through wood is provably trivial compared to what these knives can take.
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I have an F1 and if the handle was bigger, it would be one of my favorite knives of all time. I'd like to see how the re-handled Bark River custom versions feel. (I have XL hands.) I have absolutely NO doubts as to the durability of the F1. I think it will handle anything you throw at it (with the possible exception of the handle, which I don't doubt will hold up to my uses). The VG-10 laminated, convex-ground blade is wonderful and really holds an edge.
Stay sharp,
desmobob
Stay sharp,
desmobob
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I never said it wasn't a factor and there are certainly many factors involved. I was responding to your comment, "The knife is 5mm thick and it is being batonned into wood; impact toughness isn't really a factor" which implies that you hold the belief that the 5mm (actually 4.5mm at the spine) thick blade was all that mattered and the blades impact toughness did not. I think many would disagree with that claim as well as the one you made about the benefits of lamination.
I find it curious that you expressed pretty strong reservations about the F1 due to reported incidents of edge chipping as well as Fallkniven's response to same in this Fallkniven thread http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/980584-Not-sure-what-to-think-of-Fallkniven?highlight=fallkniven+breakage yet you seem steadfast with the hammer away at the F1 comments in this thread. That seems to be quite a reversal of opinion on the F1 in a relatively short amount of time. I also got the impression from your comments in the same thread referenced that you did not own an F1 which leads me to ask, do you actually own either of the two knives that we are discussing on this thread? Just curious. I posted photos of mine in case you were wondering the same.
Your impressive display of geography facts aside, this is not a valid comparison as batoning is not necessarily a prerequisite to survival nor are they one and the same. It's not like battoning with a knife is the only method of processing wood in the outdoors. I never said the F1 wasn't capable of batoning, I just choose not to baton mine mostly because I have other options I prefer, those being carbon steel bushcraft knives and axes. The preference of non-stainless blades for this task is shared by many, but to each his own. If you have something different that works for you like that Mtech Rescue Team you recommended, then good for you and thanks for sharing. I enjoy reading the differing thoughts and preferences of others, especially those that that can communicate them without resorting to personal insults. The OP indicated light batonning use, which it seems most everyone participating in the discussion including myself would have no reservation in using the F1 for.
Here we go again. No sense letting a reasoned response get in the way of another personal attack I suppose.
