Testing Edge Angle.

I would like to see a youtube video of just how you are doing this but I still have my doubts about its accuracy even wood deflects and deforms. My biggest concern is that if the wood is soft enough to be cut into it isnt very stable But if its hard enough to be stable I doubt it would be easy enough to cut without any wobble. I still like the coated blade and molten wax for greater accuracy. A drill press would also work wonders if you worked a way to perfectly mount the blade to it and also confirmed the table is 100% flat And that your clay support is 100% square to the table.

Edit: I would also like to add The best perspective for any video you might post would be looking at the knife straight on so we can watch for an side to side movement.
 
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Knife_Geek said:
I would like to see a youtube video of just how you are doing this but I still have my doubts about its accuracy even wood deflects and deforms. My biggest concern is that if the wood is soft enough to be cut into it isnt very stable But if its hard enough to be stable I doubt it would be easy enough to cut without any wobble. I still like the coated blade and molten wax for greater accuracy. A drill press would also work wonders if you worked a way to perfectly mount the blade to it and also confirmed the table is 100% flat And that your clay support is 100% square to the table.

Edit: I would also like to add The best perspective for any video you might post would be looking at the knife straight on so we can watch for an side to side movement.
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Well I would like you to calculate what kind of side to side movement and at what level affect angle marked left in the clay. All this requirement - like 100% flat 100% square etc idoes not seem reasonable.

Also I feel like you are giving me orders or something - feel free to do your own experiments - it should not be very hard to do as well as does not require too much effort. This kind of help will be more useful then telling me to do this and that.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
you couldn't be more wrong what I am doing is called brainstorming. I am throwing out important bits of information to maintain an accurate test environment. To be completely honest I dont care at all what exactly an angle is on a knife I am simply trying to assist something that seems of a lot of interest to my fellow forumites.

And for someone who seems to be so concerned with absolute scientific reasoning and fact your method has such a level of imprecision its directly at odds with your stance on accurate testing. You have put so much time and effort into your ultra scientific thread cutting rig its strange you dont want to use that same thought process to obtain as accurate a measurement as possible.
 
Also no math done on my part but it seems to me every one degree of wiggle would cause one degree of missed measurement. since we are basically talking about a wedge.

Just look at it like a wedge out of a circle. If you move that wedge 2 degrees to one side your total area is now that actually angle + that 2 degrees of slop and I think that is what it would look like when measured. so when talking about angle measures this small just two degrees of wiggle could be as much as a 5-10% error in the measure of your angle.
 
It's very easy, and probably more accurate, to just measure the width of the edge bevels and thickness immediately behind the bevel, then use basic trigonometry to calculate the angle.
 
i agree with what markksr said. the clay looks deformed and there is no way to tell if you are getting a true reading. i have a way to make an accurate pattern but its a secret that i'm not sharing :p.
 
Richard J has a way to do this that is perfect every time. Not sure he wants anyone to know how he does it, but I've seen it, and you cannot argue the accuracy of his results.
 
richard j said:
i agree with what markksr said. the clay looks deformed and there is no way to tell if you are getting a true reading. i have a way to make an accurate pattern but its a secret that i'm not sharing :p.
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lol, quite true, you do. :D
 
I did this first actually (in different thread which I do not want even talk about) before with Busse Wame warden:

edge-for-Busse.jpg


Clay gives 28 degree as well (vs 28.96) which is same for that protractor's precision.

But problem with trigonometry is that sometimes this triangle way smaller that on I have on that Game Warden, it is also in many cases not ideal but convexed to certain degree. Also with sholders being widen it is hard to find base to measure.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
richard j said:
i agree with what markksr said. the clay looks deformed and there is no way to tell if you are getting a true reading. i have a way to make an accurate pattern but its a secret that i'm not sharing :p.
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In this case you probably should not even be part of this discussion. Because it may looks like you just arguing competing method, protecting one you have.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
i just have methods i dont share with just anybody. i could say this about you too. "In this case you probably should not even be part of this discussion"
 
Knife_Geek said:
you couldn't be more wrong what I am doing is called brainstorming. I am throwing out important bits of information to maintain an accurate test environment.
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Then use what everybody use during brainstorming and say "What if" rather that "I like you to do". Simple rule which will keep you in brainstorming session. But honestly you indeed throwing out important bits of information to maintain an accurate test environment. Just throw it bit softer :)

Thanks, Vassili.
 
PatriotDan said:
Catra's machine seems use a similar idea of pressing the blade into a medium. Perhaps it uses the wax mentioned by few here?

The machine: http://www.catra.org/pages/products/kniveslevel1/bet.htm
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I may try candles. Drop wax from candle on blade stick into wood, and then remove blade after it does harden. It is not too long to wait.

Thanks, Vassili.

P.S. So far I tried coke can, folded aluminum foil and with try wax and I think I may try soap - it is not sticky for sure.
 
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nozh2002 said:
Recently I had to develop some method to measure edge angle. Idea is to make clue in the clay and make shot of it using digital camera close up. Having picture of this clue it is easy to measure it on the screen using protractor.

I tried first thin piece of clay, but found that it easy to deform, because it kind of stick to edge. So I deside to make thicker piece, but with it being thick side should be flat so it will not affect look of the angle. I uses piece of wood with clay to make sure one side is flat. It is easier to show then explain.

1. Stick clay to wood:

EA-01.jpg


2. Cut top with knife - make sure edge is perpendicular to wood surface:

EA-02.jpg


3. Remove clay from wood - better delicately shake it off, preventing any deformation. Shoot close up using Digital Camers:

EA-Busse_GW-02.jpg


4. Check angle with protractor.
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This is Busse Game Warden in two parts of the my edge (in the middle of the belly and at the bottom of the belly) both about 28 degree (you may check it for youself):

EA-Busse_GW-02.jpg


EA-Busse_GW.jpg


This is Busse Meaner Street Red G10 with factory edge 31 degree:

EA-Busse_AD-FE.jpg


This is my edge on Yuna Hard II 26 degree:

EA-Yuna-Hard-I.jpg


This is my edge on Spyderco Mule CPM M4 22 degree:

EA-Spyderco-Mule-2.jpg


This is not yet final method - just some experiment and I like to discuss this if you have any idea, is it good or bad or anything wrong and may be improved, may be someone try this too and report his/her observations?

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...

I just measured all his angles and he is about 6 degrees to high on all these knives...lol. The first one is 20 degrees included. This is where his mistake is, but he will never know. If all of you take a protractor put it on the screen and match the bottom line, then run a ruler along the other you will see he is off on every measurement..lol...
 
Two words: Bevel Gauge

Bevel%20Gauge%201.jpg


But I'm pretty certain that some way could be found to distort the results of this as well in order to prove what you want to prove...
 
you're probably right about that mark. "But I'm pretty certain that some way could be found to distort the results of this as well in order to prove what you want to prove" (or distort the truth in his favor);):D
 
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