Texaco Quenchtec type A found...

Hi will52100, this is DaQo'tah

I have a question for you -

"I read lots and lots of stuff about the right oil for 52100 steel. there are the guys that say only Tex type A, or nothing,,,,then there are the guys that seem to swear by mineral oil.

then, there are guys that say, they just dunk in used tranny oil, or whatever is around the shop...

my question to you is....think this is all in the mind?

think the reason so many swear by this or that oil is how good it worked for them, and not really based on any science?

think it matters that much?

every time I heat with a torch the cutting edge of a blade in a heat treat,,,I cant be sure I got this blade just as hot ,,,as the last one I did,,,,and I would bet that with even the smallest change in temp it could change the effects of any oil correct?
 
You can believe what ever you chose to believe. Should you wish or need to find the best technique or knife -
The questions to ask include:
How do you evaluate cutting performance?
What do you cut?
Why?
What is your reference Blade?
How many edge flexes can the edge complete without chipping?
How many 90 and 180 degree flexes will your blades pass?
How strong are the blades?
What comparisons have you made?
Do you have any laboratory results to indicate what you have acomplished?

There are a lot of armchair knifemakers out there who simply regurgitate what they read,some have never made a knife but have plenty of opinions. Others have made knives for years, completely devoid of origonal thought and fortified by an unshakable ability to ignore knowledge.

One day the devotion that goes into a knife may make a difference, most will go untested and backed by legend, will remain champions.
 
As far as believing what I want to believe... I am in the process of forging and heat treating my first blade so I have to rely on other peoples experience. For me, it is extremely difficult to look past the results that Ed has published and shared with all of us. He has done his experimentation and verification through scientific analysis and again shared with all of us. I would find it very hard to believe that a person of Ed Fowler's status in the knife world would risk his reputation on anything but facts from his own personal experiences. Therefore, if Ed says it's so, then until I can prove otherwise, it's so.

This all leads me to a question that I came up with last night while laying in bed. I had read a post on another thread by Rex Walters and was wondering if he would share his insight with us in regards to slow versus fast quenching of 52100 and 5160 steels. Is the slow quench fast enough (due to a thin cross section of a blade)to change the Austinite to Martensite yet avoid a lot of the violence of a faster quench? Does the slower quench work better with a deep cryo treatment than a fast quench would? I'm sure that there is some science behind the Texaco type A that Ed uses.

Ed, Maybe you can lead Rex to this question incase he doesn't read it. I'm not questioning the results, just trying to understand how it all fits together.

Rick
 
In general, the slower the quench, the less violent. This means less stresses and subsequent failures in the quench (water is notorious for this of course). But, as you mentioned, if the quench is too slow for the steel, one risks missing the "pearlite nose" and not getting martensite. This is where alloying elements come in. 52100 has enough chromium to push the pearlite nose back, giving you a few extra seconds to get from critical to below @900F (an opposite example would be 1095 where you have only one second to do this, typically resulting in less than full martensite in an oil quench).

More later,

John
 
Thanks Rick,

Well, I got tired of waiting on oil and I also got tired of frezzing my but off in the shop so I fired the forge up and tried an experiment with vet grade heavy mineral oil. From what I understand it's pretty close to Type A in speed of quench.

Well in forgeing a blade for a test I tried some quenches in the mineral oil to keep the edge of the blade cool. It is a lot slower than my old oil. My old oil would harden 1095 and damascus just fine, but the mineral oil was too slow for that. I also quenched a piece of 1095 and it didnt' get very hard. This leaves me to beleive that my previouse oil was too fast for 52100. I'll know when I test this blade, hopefully befor I go back out next week.

I still want to get some Type A, but tonight looks like I'm on the right track.

DaQo'tah, I had many of the same doughts that you have. I didn't even beleive in the multiple quench until I tried it and found a great increase in edge holding. I still find it hard to believe that a special oil is necisary, but it is one varible that can be eliminated. Not to mention I found out the hard way about quench speeds, I tried my on mix of Goddard's Goop a while back and seriously warped some L-6 blades-the quench was just too fast for the steel(think I had too much bacon grease in the mix). It seems the more I learn the less I know.:confused:
 
The proof of the knife is in the performance. Just pray you are never in the position where you need a knife to do more than the usual cutting of tomatoes!!!
angie fowler:D
 
OK everybody, I have received verification from the engineers at Chevron/Texaco that the formula has NOT changed. We hit paydirt!!!I'm not sure how long I have been chasing this stuff, but it's been a very good learning experience to say the least.

I will be ordering a barrel of this stuff on February 5th. It will deliver on the 11th and it will a couple of days after that before I will be setup to start shipping this stuff.

I'm going to send out an email to everyone that said that they were interested. It will have all of the details as far as costs.

Feel free to PM or email me if anyone else is interested.

Rick
 
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