Thank you kershaw.

[KLJTech]

Guys its 2012 and times have changed and the world has gotten a lot smaller. We're all here because we use and appreciate great knives and frankly I think we should be glad that we have the opportunity to buy from great companies like Kershaw/ZT and Spyderco.

The last 3 knives I've bought are American made ZT's (0551, 0560 & 0300) and all three are outstanding...I have some great American made Spyderco's like the original Manix C95 and Native (etc..) but my Taiwan made Sage 2 is as well made as just about any other knife I own. We're not forced to buy any of these knives, support the company that you feel is brings to market the knives that most interest you and if that means nothing made overseas so be it...they're be others waiting to buy those knives.

 

[PURPLEDC]

You might be buying a USA made knife, but where does the steel come from? Kershaw and ZT seem to use a lot of European steels. I have friends and family who were put out of work in the US steel business, and there are towns throughout the rust-belt of America rife with poverty because steel production moved to cheaper locales. It is not always about the final point of assembly.

KAI seems to use steels based on performance and not exactly where it is made. And I dont see KAI descriminating either. Yes they use european steel but they use plenty of US produced steel as well. S30V, 154CM, CPM3V, CPM-D2, to name a few. Knife guys like a variety and I see what your saying but without actually working at one of these companies and being high up on the ladder we will never know the lesser of all evils.

It seems KAI has chosen to use lower cost Swedish steels and utilize their own workforce for making most of their products instead of Spydercos which was to take USA sourced materials and utilize overseas manufacturing. KAI certainly havent boycotted the US steel manufactures. I cant speak for kershaw but it only makes sense that they have a priority with their own employees and factories. They arent going to cut loose their factory workers to ensure that USA steel workers keep their jobs. And honestly the knife business is but a fraction of the worlds steel needs. So if we want to blame anything for the steel industry in this country going south its gotta be big business. From what ive come to understand the demand for high quality specialty steels was what actually saved US steel production from fully going belly up. But because of the cost of these domestically made products that also limits its profitability in lower cost products where its just not able to be used.

 

[Ore_Ele]

I support buying China made knives, it creates a lot of quality control jobs here in the States to catch the bad stuff.

 

[Thomas W]

You might be buying a USA made knife, but where does the steel come from? Kershaw and ZT seem to use a lot of European steels. I have friends and family who were put out of work in the US steel business, and there are towns throughout the rust-belt of America rife with poverty because steel production moved to cheaper locales. It is not always about the final point of assembly.

Hi jimcrom,

When we moved to Sandvik as a supplier for the core steel in our value USA made products, it was based on the fact that there were limited choices on performance steel that could be fine blanked. 440A was a steel nobody was interested in producing, so it was priced out of the market to justify. I suppose we could have used 420HC, but we felt strongly about performance, as this is a product that folks actually rely on. There just wasn't much for options. Perhaps you have suggestions for a fine blankable American steel that I'm not aware of? Really, We're interested. we've asked all the mills...It should be noted that Sandvick has facilities state side, and employee many Americans. We hung out a few of them that attended Blade last week.

While I'm sympathetic to your story, I've come to understand you can't please everybody, no matter what the subject matter. You've drawn a conclusion here, from a perspective I find misplaced, but you're entitled to your opinion. I trust there will be employment improvement with your friends and family in the near future.

To wish every piece, part, and process with every product you produce is all USA driven is almost impossible in big business. To be down on a manufacturer because of that seems unfair. The factory here has been quite supportive of American jobs for almost 15 years, and it runs as one of the largest folding knife manufacturers in the US. We're proud of that. Try not to be too critical because you feel we're not supportive enough. We run a factory 24/7, there is no room for expansion, we're busting at the seams. That sounds pretty USA good to me. The majority of the vendors we reach out to are in the US. Our business with them is profitable. Our benefits to this country run deep. Our business supports hundreds of Americans and their families. We're proud of that. We also have long term plans to continue here in the states if that's of comfort. Kai USA is here for the long haul

Try to look with a little more understanding, it quite possibly may open your eyes to a bigger and better picture than you first thought.

 

[Scurvy092]

Thomas,

I'm not that familiar with their stuff, but Carpenter doesn't have something that could accommodate? I know you guys must be getting a little bit cozier with all the fancy steel on the new ZTs. Isn't CTS-BD1 supposed to be on the cheaper end of the spectrum and also blankable?

 

[Thomas W]

Thomas,

I'm not that familiar with their stuff, but Carpenter doesn't have something that could accommodate? I know you guys must be getting a little bit cozier with all the fancy steel on the new ZTs. Isn't CTS-BD1 supposed to be on the cheaper end of the spectrum and also blankable?

Yes we've spoken with Carpenter, there is no steel currently that can replace 14C28N.

 

[svrider3]

Your questions and comments are out of line and uncalled for.
If you wish to keep tossing dogs on a pile, please do it elsewhere.
They're not welcome here. And don't forget to take your damn dog
with you.

How much of KAIs line is made overseas?
What is the profit margin on this segment of the line?

I support buying China made knives, it creates a lot of quality control jobs here in the States to catch the bad stuff.

 

[Scurvy092]

Yes we've spoken with Carpenter, there is no steel currently that can replace 14C28N.

I had a sneaking suspicion considering we haven't seen anything. If you don't mind, can you touch on the differences between CTS-bd1 and 14c28n?

 

[Thomas W]

I had a sneaking suspicion considering we haven't seen anything. If you don't mind, can you touch on the differences between CTS-bd1 and 14c28n?

Haven't played with bd1, so I can't comment.

 

[mattmanyam]

Your questions and comments are out of line and uncalled for.
If you wish to keep tossing dogs on a pile, please do it elsewhere.
They're not welcome here. And don't forget to take your damn dog
with you.

My comment wasn't intended to be a "flame"... more thought-provoking when taken in context with the OPs comments in the other, "sister", thread.

Sorry if they came across otherwise.

 

[jimcrom]

Hi jimcrom,

When we moved to Sandvik as a supplier for the core steel in our value USA made products, it was based on the fact that there were limited choices on performance steel that could be fine blanked. 440A was a steel nobody was interested in producing, so it was priced out of the market to justify. I suppose we could have used 420HC, but we felt strongly about performance, as this is a product that folks actually rely on. There just wasn't much for options. Perhaps you have suggestions for a fine blankable American steel that I'm not aware of? Really, We're interested. we've asked all the mills...It should be noted that Sandvick has facilities state side, and employee many Americans. We hung out a few of them that attended Blade last week.

While I'm sympathetic to your story, I've come to understand you can't please everybody, no matter what the subject matter. You've drawn a conclusion here, from a perspective I find misplaced, but you're entitled to your opinion. I trust there will be employment improvement with your friends and family in the near future.

To wish every piece, part, and process with every product you produce is all USA driven is almost impossible in big business. To be down on a manufacturer because of that seems unfair. The factory here has been quite supportive of American jobs for almost 15 years, and it runs as one of the largest folding knife manufacturers in the US. We're proud of that. Try not to be too critical because you feel we're not supportive enough. We run a factory 24/7, there is no room for expansion, we're busting at the seams. That sounds pretty USA good to me. The majority of the vendors we reach out to are in the US. Our business with them is profitable. Our benefits to this country run deep. Our business supports hundreds of Americans and their families. We're proud of that. We also have long term plans to continue here in the states if that's of comfort. Kai USA is here for the long haul

Try to look with a little more understanding, it quite possibly may open your eyes to a bigger and better picture than you first thought.

I'm definitely not being critical of Kershaw. I fully understand the nature of our globalized economy, and am more than happy to try steel from Germany, Sweden, Japan, and America. It is all good to me, and I own lots of foreign steeled knives and domestic steeled knives.

I was just pointing out to PURPLEDC that not everything in an American knife (or an American car, or an American bicycle, or an American computer) is made in America. Like you said, it is not feasible. He was getting down on Spyderco for finishing knives in Thailand with American made steel, but praising ZT for building knives in America with foreign steel. I was just obtusely pointing out the nature of global industry. PURPLEDC has since come to better appreciate why Spyderco has to finish some knives in Thailand, and I fully understand why Kershaw and Zero Tolerance choose to use some great steels from Europe and finish them with trusty American labor. No invective intended.

 

[leafstorm]

Isn't KAI owned by some japanese folks now? If so, it wouldn't matter that it's made in the US other than that they are providing jobs for americans. I'm a big fan of north american manufacturing, being that I work as a machinist up here and all. The truth is as the world becomes more and more globalized, more and more countries will have the capabilities to manufacture to tight tolerances with repeatability. To me, I care about quality first and country of origin second. If some hard working machinist in russia makes a knife that I love the design of, I won't not buy it because he's russian. It's not like all my spydies and benchmades are supporting the canadian economy anyways

On a side-note, I bought my first kershaw yesterday! The random task 2. I love this little guy, so smooth and the blade shape is gorgeous. I think my wallet is in trouble

 

[PURPLEDC]

I'm definitely not being critical of Kershaw. I fully understand the nature of our globalized economy, and am more than happy to try steel from Germany, Sweden, Japan, and America. It is all good to me, and I own lots of foreign steeled knives and domestic steeled knives.

I was just pointing out to PURPLEDC that not everything in an American knife (or an American car, or an American bicycle, or an American computer) is made in America. Like you said, it is not feasible. He was getting down on Spyderco for finishing knives in Thailand with American made steel, but praising ZT for building knives in America with foreign steel. I was just obtusely pointing out the nature of global industry. PURPLEDC has since come to better appreciate why Spyderco has to finish some knives in Thailand, and I fully understand why Kershaw and Zero Tolerance choose to use some great steels from Europe and finish them with trusty American labor. No invective intended.

I would appreciate it if we could leave that thread in that thread and this thread in here. I never mentioned that topic here so id appreciate it if we could discuss that topic in that thread and this topic in this thread. But I do feel the need to state that you need to re read that thread as you missed my point entirely along with the majority who jumped down my throat.

 

[leafstorm]

And when I start to see companies utilizing overseas production yet charging Made in the USA prices It makes me sick.

Why don't you think people in other countries should earn similar wages and thus have the same standard of living as you? Let's take us Canadians for example, since our currency is close in value. If I had my own little production company up here, and let's say I hypothetically manufactured the kershaw leek and Ken Onion never had anything to do with it. This was my design. Would you pay the same money for this knife manufactured by Jean Guy Rubber Boot Knife and Co in Ottawa, ON??

I understand your patriotism, but Canada has the beaver tail and the poutine, plus Elisha Cuthbert is ours. I think that entitles us to the same standard of living as you lads

 

[RevDevil]

It's the misinformation and the resistance to learning that is the saddest part. On another note,
Jean Guy Rubber Boot Knife & Co FTW.

 

[jimcrom]

Kershaw and Zero Tolerance are part of a large multinational corporation. They have a facility in Oregon where Americans come in everyday and work with materials sourced from all over the world. They do this for us, the customer. We want made in the USA knives with G10 and titanium scales, beefy torx screws, steel liners, and the most cutting-edge blade steel. Not all of these pieces CAN come from America all of the time. That is the nature of the beast (a global economy).

The other side of the equation is to use some materials that DO come from America, but for one reason or another cannot, at this time, come together as a knife using American hands. Once again, that is the nature of the beast.

I think everyone in both threads understands and appreciates both sides of this equation. Every manufacturer in the knife game is working for us, the customer. And they are currently cranking out some of the coolest, craziest, most desirable pieces of cutlery any man could want. That is not something we should be particularly upset about.

 

[bh49]

Your questions and comments are out of line and uncalled for.
If you wish to keep tossing dogs on a pile, please do it elsewhere.
They're not welcome here. And don't forget to take your damn dog
with you.

Just wondering on what authority do you make statements like this? Who authorize you to make decisions who is welcome and who is not on bladeforums? Do you own this place or you authorized by somebody who can do this? Just wondering.

 

[RevDevil]

Just wondering on what authority do you make statements like this? Who authorize you to make decisions who is welcome and who is not on bladeforums? Do you own this place or you authorized by somebody who can do this? Just wondering.

He was refering to the comments, not the person. Is it alright in your opinion to ask manufacturers how much their profit margin is? Obviously not, it's no one's business what it is but their own.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Why don't you think people in other countries should earn similar wages and thus have the same standard of living as you? Let's take us Canadians for example, since our currency is close in value. If I had my own little production company up here, and let's say I hypothetically manufactured the kershaw leek and Ken Onion never had anything to do with it. This was my design. Would you pay the same money for this knife manufactured by Jean Guy Rubber Boot Knife and Co in Ottawa, ON??

I understand your patriotism, but Canada has the beaver tail and the poutine, plus Elisha Cuthbert is ours. I think that entitles us to the same standard of living as you lads

See judging by your response I can only come to the conclusion that you are yet another person who didnt actually read what I wrote and simply skimmed through it to find something to disagree with and are bringing that discussion which I asked not to be done here. But since you have put words in my mouth I feel as always the need to defend myself against ridiculous claims of which are your own fabrication. I never said America was superior. I never said that humans in any other country dont deserve the same wages for the same work. Im simply calling a spade a spade. And that spade is the fact that for many years it has been widely known that the main motivating factor for companies to produce in asian countries is one of cutting costs. Most companies openly admit that. Others say that its a matter of finding the best for a job no matter the location. But In most cases its to increase profit margins. If you dont like it that is fine but its still the way it usually works. So dont jump on my nuts for how the world works, get mad at those who make it that way. I actually believe in the theory that we are all equal. That no human being is beyond the capabilities of another. But Im also not blind to the fact that while I dont feel their is a limit to ones potential there is a limit to the actual skill that people actually posses. And china and Taiwan have been known for less than stellar quality yet increasing profitability to the point where the profits outweigh the potential risks of producing there. As time gos by and they get more practice at such things they like any human learn and get better. I dont feel china is fully there and taiwan can produce great stuff but just like anywhere else it isnt always the case.

Fact of the matter is that what and how I feel is much different than what is. What is your point with the bit of the kershaw leek. Would I buy it if it was from an unknown manufacturer from another country? No. But not because it was made in another country. But its because I dont know who the hell Jean Guy Rubber Boot Knife and Co is. And this has nothing to do with patriotism. Frankly I could give a rip about the politics between nations. The issue is that many knife companies including Cold Steel, SOG, and others moved more and more production over to asian countries as a way to save money. They openly admitted that the cost of making things in the USA no longer was acceptable. So they went to asia. Now with prices of USA made knives and Taiwan knives being equal and manufacturing quality being the same, why even go through the hassle of shipping raw materials to taiwan and china if the first motivating factor is to cut costs and thats no longer possible. And if it IS still in fact about cost cutting and they are paying less than they would to make it in america then why are they charging a price as if it were.

You can pick apart what I say about this topic all you want and go over it and nit pick every little aspect all you want. All Im saying is that "made in the USA" still means something to some of us even if there is no rational explanation for those feelings of pride. Somtimes people simply like what they like because they like it. And I still go back to the ferrari analogy. Which if you didnt all ready know is an Italian car. Would ANYONE still hold it in the same prestige as other ferraris if it were made in china? No, its the heritage of that car that makes it special.

It's the misinformation and the resistance to learning that is the saddest part. On another note,
Jean Guy Rubber Boot Knife & Co FTW.

What referencing here?

 

[Thomas W]

The other side of the equation is to use some materials that DO come from America, but for one reason or another cannot, at this time, come together as a knife using American hands. Once again, that is the nature of the beast.

What is your point with the bit of the kershaw leek. Would I buy it if it was from an unknown manufacturer from another country? No. But not because it was made in another country. But its because I dont know who the hell Jean Guy Rubber Boot Knife and Co is. And this has nothing to do with patriotism.

Speaking of hypothetical, what if the Leek was assembled in China and had the same materials, specs, and performance of it's current state? Couldn't tell the difference. Same monies...

That cool? I'm not sure anymore.