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Sorry you are in this unfortunate boat. Sounds like a case of misrepresentation to me. Under the BF forums policy, if both parties are not satisfied with the transaction, it is void - thus the knife should be returned and the funds refunded. Honestly, I would be a little worried too. Probably the safest bet would be to send him the link on BF policy, take pictures with date and time of the "used" knife, and call Paypal first. Then based on what they tell you, my guess would be to send the knife back w/insurance and tracking and possibly signature confirmation. Hopefully his address is a confirmed address. In the meantime, it is probably a good idea to send him e-mails informing of the current status and when the package does arrive, I would give up to 3-5 days for him to do his part and give the refund. I think the Paypal policy changed recently so as a buyer, you could be eligible for refund up to 180 days? Maybe it is 90 days but it is a long time. The thing sounds a bit fishy but if you keep all records and in contact with Paypal, you should be OK. Let us know how it works out BOL


Happy Thanksgiving :)
 
Have you told the member you were going to start a thread here?
 
Thanks for the replies. I will call PayPal tomorrow before I ship the Knife back. I did not let the other member know. Although I felt that he was rude to me when it became clear I wanted to return the knife, I suppose it could be just a case of email communication gone wrong. My intention was not to create an issue, just to see if anyone could let me know the best way to deal with an issue like this "basically someone spending the money sent to them before the knife arrived and therefore not able to make a refund".
 
If you are not happy with the item, and have made a reasonable attempt to work it out and still get no where, then file a claim.
The seller should have made certain that you were satisfied with the item, before running off and spending the money.
If the item is significantly not as described then contact Paypal and file a claim.
The seller should not say, "I'll get you your money when it's convenient", that is not how Paypal sees it.

-Some additional things to be aware of, your first post on the forums (this one) may be greeted with a lot of skepticism, especially if the seller has a consistent streak of good/positive dealings.
-Depending on the knife (based on your limited info here) what may appear to be scratches, dings, and imperfections are actually the way the knife leaves the factory. Chances are they all do and will look like that. Unless of course they are very obvious, for some people it's easy to tell.
-Make sure that you always use caution and common sense when looking at ads that say "mint" to describe an item, that may not always be the case and it isn't more often than not.
-Your due diligence must be done researching the sellers history, post style, etc. Get a feel for the kind of personality you about to give your money to.
-You should send the seller a link to this thread so that he can see what their chosen route has accomplished.
Good Luck to you
 
It's very important that you use signature confirmation and not simply tracking, in addition to sending it back with insurance. Regarding the seller spending your money already. Here's PayPal's statement of availability of funds for sellers:

When some sellers receive payments, we may hold the money in their pending balance for up to 21 days. We want to make sure that there are no problems with the orders, such as disputes, claims, returns, or chargebacks. After we determine that the order was fulfilled and the customer is satisfied, we may release the money earlier.

If we place your money in a pending balance, it belongs to you but isn't immediately available to spend or withdraw.

We'll let you know if payments on your account are held. We'll also let you know what steps you can take to have your money released earlier. If your PayPal account was already limited, you'll need to lift those limits before you complete the steps to release your payments.
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First off - good job sticking with your gut on the goods and services payment. My guess is your seller has limited feedback and/or history here. Otherwise, he would know better than to be pulling this kind of BS. Correct me if I am wrong though.

Otherwise, the "I will refund you at my convenience" idea is unacceptable. The deal is not done until both parties are satisfied. If someone describes a knife as "mint" - it better fit that description. RevDevil is right that some knives will leave the factory or maker with some flaws but if that is the case, a good seller will disclose those details.

Ask your seller again to agree to refund the payment immediately upon receipt of the knife. If he declines, file your PayPal claim and name him here. Hell name him here now anyway and let him know about the thread so we can hear his side of the story as well.

Based on the details so far, you are well within your rights to file through PayPal.
 
Thanks for the advice guys. The seller is only a few months newer than I am. Has a good amount (about 10) of positive feedbacks but they are all for purchasing, never for selling. I called Paypal and they let me know that I should file a claim (which I did not do but may tomorrow). They also told me that I should only return ship to confirmed addresses, and the address that the seller asked me to return the knife to was not confirmed. I emailed the seller to ask they he verify the address with PayPal so I can ship the knife back to him. He basically told me that I was annoying him and I was being difficult (which maybe the truth) and that I have wasted his time and energy. He told me not to complicate things and just send the knife back to the address that he gave me. I kindly reminded him that he was the one that that represented the knife as "Mint". I have separate emails from him, one stating that he thought that the knife was in good shape, and one saying that a "mint" blade would cost a lot more than I paid. I try to see the positive in people but its getting pretty hard here. I am sure he is not a scammer and I know he has completed deals as a buyer before, just probably not the most experienced in selling on forums.

I'll see tomorrow if I want to just ship back to him and trust that this will end soon or file a claim, which i am sure will complicate things.

Sorry about the long post, the In-laws place can be a bit boring. At least there is football and the internet.......... and its almost turkey time!
 
Hkwinger - I think you should name him at this point. His attitude is really not acceptable. It is YOUR time and energy that he is wasting as he was dishonest in the description of the item. You will be doing BF a favor letting him try to explain himself here and so we can avoid dealing with him in the future.
 
Hkwinger said:
I called Paypal and they let me know that I should file a claim (which I did not do but may tomorrow). They also told me that I should only return ship to confirmed addresses, and the address that the seller asked me to return the knife to was not confirmed. I emailed the seller to ask they he verify the address with PayPal so I can ship the knife back to him. He basically told me that I was annoying him and I was being difficult (which maybe the truth) and that I have wasted his time and energy...

I'll see tomorrow if I want to just ship back to him and trust that this will end soon or file a claim, which i am sure will complicate things...
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If PayPal tells you to "only return ship to [a] confirmed address," then doing otherwise could hurt your case if you decide to file a claim. In short, I would not ship back to an unconfirmed address. Assuming everything you've told us is true and without glaring omissions, your requests to the seller are not unreasonable. In fact, I would say you're being a bit too passive here.
 
Take pictures of the knife, the scratches, and the knife packaged to be returned. And any others that you could send to paypal if the seller claims that it was not received ect. Keep return receipts and get signature confirmation so he has to sign for it.
 
Ludwig said:
First off - good job sticking with your gut on the goods and services payment. My guess is your seller has limited feedback and/or history here. Otherwise, he would know better than to be pulling this kind of BS. Correct me if I am wrong though.

Otherwise, the "I will refund you at my convenience" idea is unacceptable. The deal is not done until both parties are satisfied. If someone describes a knife as "mint" - it better fit that description. RevDevil is right that some knives will leave the factory or maker with some flaws but if that is the case, a good seller will disclose those details.

Ask your seller again to agree to refund the payment immediately upon receipt of the knife. If he declines, file your PayPal claim and name him here. Hell name him here now anyway and let him know about the thread so we can hear his side of the story as well.

Based on the details so far, you are well within your rights to file through PayPal.
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Ludwig said:
Hkwinger - I think you should name him at this point. His attitude is really not acceptable. It is YOUR time and energy that he is wasting as he was dishonest in the description of the item. You will be doing BF a favor letting him try to explain himself here and so we can avoid dealing with him in the future.
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I agree completely with Ludwig. Name the person and file the claim.
 
Chuck Gedraitis Knives said:
Take pictures of the knife, the scratches, and the knife packaged to be returned. And any others that you could send to paypal if the seller claims that it was not received ect. Keep return receipts and get signature confirmation so he has to sign for it.
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What Chuck said! And only return ship to the Paypal confirmed address.
 
If everything you've stated is factual then file a claim and stop procrastinating. Follow the PayPal policy exactly. Don't return it to any address but the confirmed one he has with PayPal. And yes you are being way to passive under the circumstances. Make sure you insure it require his signature preferably require signature with id. Take lots of photos maybe a video before shipping it back and would you please name this person. I can't understand not naming him so others can decide to deal with him or not.
 
RevDevil said:
If you are not happy with the item, and have made a reasonable attempt to work it out and still get no where, then file a claim.
The seller should have made certain that you were satisfied with the item, before running off and spending the money.
If the item is significantly not as described then contact Paypal and file a claim.
The seller should not say, "I'll get you your money when it's convenient", that is not how Paypal sees it.

-Some additional things to be aware of, your first post on the forums (this one) may be greeted with a lot of skepticism, especially if the seller has a consistent streak of good/positive dealings.
-Depending on the knife (based on your limited info here) what may appear to be scratches, dings, and imperfections are actually the way the knife leaves the factory. Chances are they all do and will look like that. Unless of course they are very obvious, for some people it's easy to tell.
-Make sure that you always use caution and common sense when looking at ads that say "mint" to describe an item, that may not always be the case and it isn't more often than not.
-Your due diligence must be done researching the sellers history, post style, etc. Get a feel for the kind of personality you about to give your money to.
-You should send the seller a link to this thread so that he can see what their chosen route has accomplished.
Good Luck to you
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This! +1

It will be interesting, hearing the other side of this transaction. I'm impressed with the way you have handled this up until now, Hkwinger, & I can appreciate why you have chosen to remain on the passive side (this being your very first BF transaction & ending up in the GBU). Thank goodness you demonstrated good judgment on this transaction, & paid via Paypal Goods.

Best of luck on a positive resolution.
 
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Just to add a quick comment. While I understand you being new here and taking a subtle approach and not wanting to tarnish a person's name uneccessarily. While you hold back other people may be about to conduct a transaction with this person and would appreciate the feedback in advance.You can save another person a big headache. So far with the explanation of events you gave I'm not to impressed the way the other guy is handling it, though it would be nice to hear his side of the story too.
 
Definitely file a claim and wait for a confirmed address. We need this person's user name. We are a pretty tight knit community here and these types of shennanigans are not wanted or accepted here. Also, make sure said user is aware of this thread so that he can give his side of the story if he has one and wants to. And even once everything is said and done, at this point if he accepts the knife back he will be doing the right thing against his will. I think a negative feedback is warranted here.
 
This is just my opinion but you keeping the name from us is almost as bad as what he's doing to you. You came here for advice from the community because you aren't happy about what he's doing to you. Why then protect him and put us all at the risk of being in the same boat? If he cares enough about it or feels wronged, he can come here and clear the air.

If you keep his identity hidden and he screws someone else you've got blood on your hands.

JMO. . .
 
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