The “Damascus” Scam

[brownshoe]

I have one damascus knife by Muller Forge (Jody Muller and hhis dad). It is L6 and 15N20 at Rc 61. I use it a lot, rarely needs sharpening, doesn’t chip. As Madcap says, it performs as expected given the mother steels. No scam at all…except the first post.

 

[Chefget]

Damascus is a scam? Hmmm... makes me wonder if 1095 a scam when 52100 is a better, readily available steel? I can get Japanese white #2 sharper than most other steels; are the other steels a scam?

Love me some damascus and have used it for years in a commercial kitchen.

Here are some screaming chef knives; I would venture these are sharper and cut better than most people's mono-steel kitchen knives

I have bought damascus slabs from steel makers (Robert Eggerling my favorite) and sent them around the world to be made into knives.

Some of the damascus bars sent to makers

And here's a bar of scam that went to Thailand and the knife; cuts great!

And also a bar that went to Brasil and the knife, quite sharp!

And also little knife i bought out of Robert Eggerling's pocket, his personal EDC! He used it everyday; don't think he thought it was a scam...

And lastly knives like this just wouldn't have the same impact without this beautiful steel!

Yep, love me some damascus!

 

[Danke42]

Copied from another thread about a delaminated blade.

Allegedly: At one time Damascus or Pattern Welded steel was as good as it gets. A way to stretch premium materials.

Now it is at best art, a way to make pretty patterns in steel. There are much better performing steels. IMHO (like 1095)

My question is why people still think it is desirable in a user.

We wouldn’t accept inclusions, seams, veins, voids, stress risers, or layers in any other material. Yet we are willing to pay extra to get those if it is called “Damascus”?

We are so gullible.

That guy in the other thread got ripped off. If he'd post the maker of that blade we'd be able to see all the blades he makes.

I'm putting my chips on his the non-Damascus being junk too.

If it comes from a quality cutler none of those issues are a concern. If it comes from a scammer, then it's a scam. Just his explanation of how the heat treater he uses (Peters) says it's fine is laughable.

 

[Danke42]

Forged in Fire where it seems like 85% of all knives/swords made are from Damascus.

110% of the winners are Damascus

 

[LG&M]

Wouldn’t call it a scam but for similar reasons I had a rule against buying Damaskus knives.

Then again, a few weeks ago I bought one. The perfect pattern, scales, etc., so much so that the Damascus didn’t bother me, didn’t cost extra and every rule needs an exception … and now I think it’s pretty

That revolver is pretty

 

[calm]

With Damascus the metals bond together, supporting, completing and complementing each other, so that the final product is at least 1000 times better than the sum of the metals used to make the steel.
As an example making Damascus using 1095 and 1075 steel you end up with a product that is superior to Magnacut in all cutting aspects and looks way better.

 

[lambertiana]

A generation ago there were folks saying that damascus, and especially wootz, were magic steels. I never viewed damascus as such, it will perform similar to the component steels. I have a damasteel Urban in my rotation, and I didn't buy it because I believed it to be superior to other steels (and it certainly wasn''t marketed with that claim). I bought it because I liked how it looks.

If anyone markets damascus with claims of superiority, I would expect to see independent testing that confirms those claims before I would believe them.

 

[edgelion]

Damascus is a scam? Hmmm... makes me wonder if 1095 a scam when 52100 is a better, readily available steel? I can get Japanese white #2 sharper than most other steels; are the other steels a scam?

Love me some damascus and have used it for years in a commercial kitchen.

Here are some screaming chef knives; I would venture these are sharper and cut better than most people's mono-steel kitchen knives

I have bought damascus slabs from steel makers (Robert Eggerling my favorite) and sent them around the world to be made into knives.

Some of the damascus bars sent to makers

And here's a bar of scam that went to Thailand and the knife; cuts great!

And also a bar that went to Brasil and the knife, quite sharp!

And also little knife i bought out of Robert Eggerling's pocket, his personal EDC! He used it everyday; don't think he thought it was a scam...

And lastly knives like this just wouldn't have the same impact without this beautiful steel!

Yep, love me some damascus!

There's an important distinction to be observed here between the echelon of materials you have shown and the production grade(s) sold to the rest of us.

 

[Delgadonine]

Compared to Chefget, I'm the scam in a kitchen!

Well done, Sir, well done!

 

[scorpnsnake]

I'll go Damasteel when possible. It performs all day and even looks better imo. Though I have not had any issues with the damascus I do own.

As much as I hate to admit it, but figure many here will get it. I want something different. Something 1/10 holds much value over something 1/10k for me. Not on the practical side but on the feeling those butterflies in my gut side.

Maybe not smart but hard wired in, on some primal level, all the same. lol

 

[Maximumbob54]

Is your knife Damasteel? Well, it'll probably perform like CPM154 on account of the ingredients in it are RWL34 and PMC27, which are more or less CPM154 and 12C27.

That's the best easy explanation I've seen of Damasteel. I need to remember that to explain it better in the future.

 

[Larrin]

I did a big study on this subject if people are interested in testing and numbers. Nerds.

Does Damascus Outperform Super Steels? Testing Different Combinations - Knife Steel Nerds

Nearly every experiment I performed on Damascus surprised me. The behavior of two steels welded together is anything but intuitive.

knifesteelnerds.com

 

[Wowbagger]

I REALLY enjoy looking at my Case knives with Damascus !
Theirs is like fine wood grain / pretty subtle and ALL have been very tight and HIGH QUALITY .
I beat on Case a fair amount in forums and reviews but I have nothing but kind and respectful things to say about Case Damascus .
I will say I am so glad I bought mine (some even two exact duplicates ; mostly Mini Trappers) before the prices took off like a rocket . Still kind of worth it though ; they are that good IMO .

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Case uses Devin Thomas Damascus and this is Larrin's Dad ! ! !

I have many other brands, some of them garish as heck (not going to point fingers / I am glad to have them ) but I don't think I have a single one that I would call poor quality . Some of them were pretty reasonably priced even inexpensive : Boker and Spyderco KnifeJoy

 

[Toooooommy]

How did this pattern be made? I like this kind of fancy stuff. Hahaha

 

[mitchnola]

Copied from another thread about a delaminated blade.

Allegedly: At one time Damascus or Pattern Welded steel was as good as it gets. A way to stretch premium materials.

Now it is at best art, a way to make pretty patterns in steel. There are much better performing steels. IMHO (like 1095)

My question is why people still think it is desirable in a user.

We wouldn’t accept inclusions, seams, veins, voids, stress risers, or layers in any other material. Yet we are willing to pay extra to get those if it is called “Damascus”?

We are so gullible.

I consider the super steel rat race a scam. I would wager very few people, only the kings of knife nerds could tell the difference between say s30v vs magnacut on the same knife after months of regular use. Sure there’s a huge difference between the best and the worst but the differences in the last 10-20 years in the improvement from one steel to the next is completely negligible to even above average knife nerds. It’s just one of the ways to sell the same 35th pm2 to a collector chasing every steel iteration. Considering knives are very simple tools, blade steel just so happens to be where the industry can make/sell innovation regularly. Imo if you buy a quality knife these days, whichever steel it comes with will be more than just fine for regular use.

As far as Damascus, it’s beautiful and artistic. It’s also labor intensive and time consuming to make. And there are makers out there doing things/patterns that only they can make. Now if someone makes absurd claims about magical Damascus performance than it’s probably a scam like all other magical products for sale.

 

[scorpnsnake]

I consider the super steel rat race a scam. I would wager very few people, only the kings of knife nerds could tell the difference between say s30v vs magnacut on the same knife after months of regular use. Sure there’s a huge difference between the best and the worst but the differences in the last 10-20 years in the improvement from one steel to the next is completely negligible to even above average knife nerds. It’s just one of the ways to sell the same 35th pm2 to a collector chasing every steel iteration. Considering knives are very simple tools, blade steel just so happens to be where the industry can make/sell innovation regularly. Imo if you buy a quality knife these days, whichever steel it comes with will be more than just fine for regular use.

As far as Damascus, it’s beautiful and artistic. It’s also labor intensive and time consuming to make. And there are makers out there doing things/patterns that only they can make. Now if someone makes absurd claims about magical Damascus performance than it’s probably a scam like all other magical products for sale.

Don't hold back. Just drop that hot take right on the table. lol

 

[mitchnola]

Don't hold back. Just drop that hot take right on the table. lol

I get a little mouthy late at night when the meds are wearing off!

 

[Scotchmon]

How did this pattern be made? I like this kind of fancy stuff. Hahaha

A low layer count can give the boldness and using fullering dies to draw out the billet can produce the peaks and valleys of the pattern.
I like it!

 

[K.O.D.]

I find damasteel to perform satisfactorily.

 

[jfk1110]

DamaSteel is the best looking IMO stuff going.... Especially with all the different finishing choices..... And it works, sharpens and wears.pretty much in modern steel fashion...................