The “Damascus” Scam

I don’t quite agree. In my experience, some Damascus blades have a “sawing” ability that works very well for hunting. Additionally, they can be very easy to sharpen. At the same time, they tend to lose their edge a bit faster than regular steel. On the other hand, I think they perform better when they are dull, than regular steel.
 
Alec Steele did a billet of some very...uh...interesting mosaic damascus recently....
 
mitchnola said:
I consider the super steel rat race a scam. I would wager very few people, only the kings of knife nerds could tell the difference between say s30v vs magnacut on the same knife after months of regular use. Sure there’s a huge difference between the best and the worst but the differences in the last 10-20 years in the improvement from one steel to the next is completely negligible to even above average knife nerds. It’s just one of the ways to sell the same 35th pm2 to a collector chasing every steel iteration. Considering knives are very simple tools, blade steel just so happens to be where the industry can make/sell innovation regularly. Imo if you buy a quality knife these days, whichever steel it comes with will be more than just fine for regular use.

As far as Damascus, it’s beautiful and artistic. It’s also labor intensive and time consuming to make. And there are makers out there doing things/patterns that only they can make. Now if someone makes absurd claims about magical Damascus performance than it’s probably a scam like all other magical products for sale.
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Darn, kids, stay off of Mitch's lawn!
 
madcap_magician said:
It's just up there with katanas being the most superior edged weapon ever made, or that 'folded steel' is better. There's a lot of good damascus. It's really not that hard to figure out what's good and what's not. Is it a reputable maker who is open about where he or she sources the steel, and if he or she is forging the steel themselves, what steel they used for it? Are they charging prices commensurate with the materials and quality of workmanship?

Damascus is currently a looks-only sort of thing. No one buys damascus for pure performance. The best damascus, the way we make it now, is just the sum of its component parts. Did you make it from 1085 and 15N20? Well, unless you buggered up forging the damascus billet, the knife is going to perform pretty much like it would if you'd made it from 1085 or 15N20. Is your knife Damasteel? calcolo codice fiscale Well, it'll probably perform like CPM154 on account of the ingredients in it are RWL34 and PMC27, which are more or less CPM154 and 12C27.
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Yes i see this and follow
 
eveled said:
Copied from another thread about a delaminated blade.

Allegedly: At one time Damascus or Pattern Welded steel was as good as it gets. A way to stretch premium materials.

Now it is at best art, a way to make pretty patterns in steel. There are much better performing steels. IMHO (like 1095) 😂

My question is why people still think it is desirable in a user.

We wouldn’t accept inclusions, seams, veins, voids, stress risers, or layers in any other material. Yet we are willing to pay extra to get those if it is called “Damascus”?

We are so gullible.
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I can be mistaken about this, but . . .

It has been my understanding the "original" Damascus that 18th and 19th century folks said was so good was actually not pattern welded, but rather "Wootz" steel. This steel was batch made in crucibles from ores local to southern India and exported as blades or billets to the Middle East . . .Damascus.

The appetence of Wootz steel can be somewhat like wood grain or running water depending on the blade examined and how hard you squint. Historical sources sometimes call it "watered steel" . the superior qualities are said to be due to the inclusion of Vanadium and other trace elements found in the source ores.

Pattern welding can look great, but performance depends on what metals are folded together.

I would have a really nice-looking pattern welded knife in my pocket if wearing a suit and not expecting to do a full gay of ranch work with it.

How much of this do I have right?
 
I am under the impression that the traditional Japanese swords were/are laminated in several ways from steels of different properties rather that "pattern welded" as the term Damascus Steel is popularly used today.

I understood that folding in japanese forging was primarily for removal of inclusions to ensure a uniform piece of steel.

How much of this do I have right?
 
I haven't met these people who still think "damascus" is mythically good steel, at least when it's on a modern knife, especially for the prices you generally see. It's not marketed for its cutting performance from what I've seen (beyond what every company says about the steel they use, basically that it's suitable for cutlery), it's just marketed as a cool-looking blade option. If a company were to specifically leverage the myth to sell knives then I'd definitely consider it scummy.
 
VorpelSword said:
I am under the impression that the traditional Japanese swords were/are laminated in several ways from steels of different properties rather that "pattern welded" as the term Damascus Steel is popularly used today.

I understood that folding in japanese forging was primarily for removal of inclusions to ensure a uniform piece of steel.

How much of this do I have right?
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I can tell you what I saw at a museum when I was about 9 years old. There was a display of Japanese swords (no handles) and I got about three inches away with my near sighted eyes. There were extremely tiny lines in the steel and it looked like thousands packed tight together all the way to the edge.
It didn't look like anything I'd ever seen, it looked alien. There was an element of craftsmanship that was unreal.
 
ferider said:
That being said, Hap40 (Rex45) cladded in stainless has made a lot of sense to me (the right two below). Most people will not call this Damascus, though.

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These are the best looking Damascus blades I've seen. I still need to acquire a Police Hap40.
 
navman said:
I would not call that damascus. that is San Mai (3 layer). Damascus, by definition, has a damascene pattern.
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I agree. It was my way of being nice about not liking the look of Damascus. I don't understand the appeal. It's subjective, like everything else, and the more options, the better. Who knows, someday there may be a design that I can't resist.
 
Quiet said:
I have several damascus knives and I bought them singularly because they're pretty. That's it, that was the purchase reason. I know and understand completely that a blade of a modern steel would outperform in every conceivable metric, but as my cutting needs just aren't that serious these days, I'm not concerned by it.
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Same. I buy damascus for its looks not it's performance. Also, it should be noted that not all damascus is created equally. Damascus by Chad Nichols or Devin Thomas will perform outstandingly well, compared to your run of the mill Pakistani pot steel folded up to look pretty.
 
The patterns can be beautiful. No doubt about it. Pure art.

If you isolated one spot on the pattern and placed it onto a blank blade, it would be considered a flaw.

When I see Damascus I see a pretty pattern of flaws.
 
The look still takes me back to my first impression as a kid, when I thought it was wood that had turned into metal. I dunno, petrification, fossilization, or something. I liked dinosaurs, there was no such thing as internet, and the library was 45 minutes away. I found out later.

But it looks like metal woodgrain to this day, and I can't unsee it.
 
SWED said:
I don’t quite agree. In my experience, some Damascus blades have a “sawing” ability that works very well for hunting. Additionally, they can be very easy to sharpen. At the same time, they tend to lose their edge a bit faster than regular steel. On the other hand, I think they perform better when they are dull, than regular steel.
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Agreed. The Thomas' Damascus I have in Case knives, work best sharpened up to 600 grit. I've found they performed better with a "toothy" edge as opposed to a 2K grit mirror finish.
 
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