The ABS....still suckin' after all these years...

[Kohai999]

Just really read my "American Bladesmith", the Journal of the ABS, Spring 2016, Issue 46.

Have been an Apprentice Smith for about 8 years....C. Houston Price(RIP, amigo!) drafted me.

Sfreddo "International Master" Knife of the Year on the cover....check/crack on the Ironwood handle, which is not even mentioned as a material in the description. Rodrigo's gift is in steel pattern welding mastery, but he is severely handicapped when it comes to material selection, as in I have handled 4 knives in the last 18 months that have had shrinkage around the tang. Buy what you like, but stop giving flaws in construction a "bye"....this is solely an example, as this was the cover knife.....as a person, I have great respect and affection for Rodrigo.

In 1986 or 1987, I attended my first New England Bladesmithing Guild Ashokan Conference. Two of my classmates were Hugh Bartrugh and Larry Fuegen. Phil Baldwin, Gary Barnes, Dan Maragni and Wayne Valachovich all gave seminars. Everyone there learned an awful lot about the forged blade and diffusion bonded metals. The (prevailing at the time, as explained to me) ABS attitude of "keeping secrets and disseminating misinformation" was discussed at length, and my young brain just sucked it up.

I don't pretend to know everything about knives in general and certainly not about forged blades, but do love them at a very primal level. My teachers/sensei over the years have been Phil Baldwin, Don Fogg, Dan Maragni, J.D. Smith, Jerry Fisk and Larry Fuegen, in that order. My love and respect for Larry is without peer, he is a friend and a mentor.

MOST of the GREAT makers of forged blades that I know who are alive in the USA give credit to each other for knowledge and information FIRST...before crediting Bill Moran, B.R. Hughes or the American Bladesmithing Society. I thought that the ABS would, after Bill died, move on and allow individual makers to shine, but since B.R. seems to have a lock on all ABS published lore and legend, it hasn't happened. Is this to the benefit of the American forged blade as it exists as a movement or thought collective? Not to me.

As a deeply personal issue, the absolute silence of the ABS as an entity concerning the loss of shop and beloved dogs of ABS MS's Adam and Haley DesRosiers and subsequent lack of hue and cry when E.R. Russ Andrews lost his shop as well speaks volumes to me about how little the individual accomplishments of the contributing members is valued and appreciated, unless directly beneficial to the ABS as a body.

Show me how I am wrong, demonstrate in deed and writing my lack of information, and I'll gladly retract....but call for my destruction on principle or lambast the words as heresy at your own risk of intensely illuminated dissection.

Hope everyone has a great Blade Show, and heartfelt apologies for not attending.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[wdtorque]

Is this a "custom" or "whine and cheese" topic?
Dozier


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[2knife]

Quite a sharply worded title, Steven! I think I recall Ed Fowler telling a story of an attempt to vote him out of the ABS early in his membership because he was sharing the benefits of "multiple quench" heat treating and this was considered heresy.
David

 

[AVigil]

Now that is a drunk rant!

 

[Kohai999]

Now that is a drunk rant!

HAHAHA....stone cold sober and ownin' it!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Augus7us]

Steven you are a heretic!!!

I just got that copy of the ABS newsletter myself but I don't have your eye for details, though I did notice a few things that weren't "perfect" per say.

So my intention here is not going to debate you on this. I don't really have a reason to and I haven't been around the custom knife world for long enough to fully trust my instincts as to what is great and what is terrible. But I will tell you why as a new bladesmith I like the ABS. Feel free to offer your thoughts, good or bad on my post.

I've only been attempting to make knives for a little over two years now, as time permits, my shop is about 40 minutes away currently so I don't get to spend near the time at the grinder as I would like at the moment. In lieu of shop time I try to learn. I'm in the technology field working at large enterprise companies so I'm used to constantly updating my skillset and learning new stuff across the board. I try to apply that to knifemaking. However there is only so much you can learn from reading and youtube and only so many smiths that will tolerate a new person standing over their shoulders asking endless questions.

Enter the ABS. They not too long ago partnered with a rather large blacksmithing club here in Ohio and we are now home to the fourth ABS school. Thanks to that I have been able to take several training classes and spend time with guys like Timothy Potier, Butch Sheely and Kevin Cashen. I have many books, have read thousands of pages here on the internet and watched hundreds of hours of video. But none of that compares to the benefits I've gotten from about a month or so worth of class time and hammer ins through the ABS. The amount of time that has cut from my learning curve makes those classes alone worth every penny of my membership dues. Its also been a networking tool for me as I keep in contact with the teachers, other ABS members that assist with the training and my fellow classmates.

My goals in knifemaking are to eventually make collector pieces because they challenge me and I like the idea of spending more time on a single complex piece vs making many of the same piece over and over. The ABS is one of the only organizations I've found that promotes an artistic style of knife. The ABS is one of the only resources I have found that offers advice on things like fluting handles, wire inlay, engraving, gem setting, etc. Shop talk here is great but if it ever was it is no longer a good resource for that type of stuff. If you are new and want to learn basics its fantastic but ask about setting a stone or working with gold and you get crickets or you might get lucky and get a response from Stacy. I've found the ABS site and members to be much more knowledgeable in this area.

There is really no longer a reason to forge a blade. As some say its a great way to ruin a perfectly good piece of steel and I agree with that. I've never melted a piece of steel on my grinder. But I do love history and I truly enjoy the thought of standing in front of the forge and doing exactly what some else did thousands of years ago. I think keeping history alive is important, not just in forging but all facets of life. Regarding forged blades and keeping that skill alive as was Bill Moran's mission, I think the ABS does a better job of that than any other organization. I imagine they are the largest promoter of forging blades in the world.

And I'll make this one the last. I very much like that the ABS has a certification system for two reasons. The first is that it gives me a structure to pattern my learning off of. My education road map runs parallel to the JS and MS programs. Starting with stuff like perfecting fit and finish and working up to daggers and artistic decoration like fluting and inlay. It also is fairly accurate way of judging ones abilities. I know there are masters of all levels and each has their own style but speaking generally you have to have above average skill to make a mastersmith set. Again I'm not saying its the end all be all for ones ability to make a top tier knife but it shows that one can go beyond the basics.

I'll throw a couple questions your way in closing.

I'm curious what information do you think they keep or want to keep secret? I'm not sure I understood that part of your post.

Given my comments above and without having to travel across the country where do you feel I could have gotten this level of training here in the midwest?

I have said this before, I have a high regard for your opinion and thoughts, even when I don't agree with you I know it will always be a good read. I know I'm getting no BS when I read your stuff.

And as a side note some day I will make a knife and I will look it over thoroughly for any signs of imperfection, flaw or anything else that doesn't meet the very high standards I have set for myself. Some day I will make that knife and find no imperfections. When that day comes I will message you and ask if I can send you that knife for you to critique, I hope you will humor me.

-Clint

 

[Kohai999]

I'm curious what information do you think they keep or want to keep secret? I'm not sure I understood that part of your post.

At that time in the 80's...."grain orientation" and "edge packing" were very much in vogue as buzzwords, both of which have been proven to be hookum over time. The last bit I heard promulgated was the magnetic orientation of a quench tank. Kevin Cashen was the first person that I ever read on a personal website who explained things in scientific AND easy to understand sound bites, and he did it vastly before becoming actively involved in the ABS.

Given my comments above and without having to travel across the country where do you feel I could have gotten this level of training here in the midwest?

No doubt the ABS has done an excellent job of training bladesmiths. The have done almost nothing to improve the imbalance of maker quantity to the collector quantity of the forged blade, though, and when challenged on it, will plainly state that the ABS charter is in the training of bladesmiths. In my opinion the charter should have been changed years ago, but that gets punted back to B.R.

I have said this before, I have a high regard for your opinion and thoughts, even when I don't agree with you I know it will always be a good read. I know I'm getting no BS when I read your stuff.

Thanks...it's always appreciated when people at least consider my ramblings.....and it is always unvarnished, lol!

And as a side note some day I will make a knife and I will look it over thoroughly for any signs of imperfection, flaw or anything else that doesn't meet the very high standards I have set for myself. Some day I will make that knife and find no imperfections. When that day comes I will message you and ask if I can send you that knife for you to critique, I hope you will humor me.

-Clint

I don't breath fire and smoke doesn't flow out of my butt....if anyone ever wants me to look at a knife for critique, don't think I have ever said "no", been unreasonable or unapproachable.....do the best that I can....my gripe is and has been that I don't think that the ABS has kept up with the times, been as appreciative of individual contributions as it SHOULD be and done the collecting world as solidly as the maker side of things....those are lost opportunities.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[just-a-hunter]

I don't know the first thing about the ABS, but I've become pals with quite a few folks that are either apprentice, journeymen, or Master Smith. They are all really good guys. I can't see how that many good guys belong to something that is so terrible.

ANYTHING man orginizes and runs is going to be imperfect.

Can't please everybody..

Todd

 

[Don Hanson III]

The ABS is made up of very good people. But it's kind of like a man made religion, it just doesn't work for everyone.

 

[Karl B. Andersen]

The ABS is made up of very good people. But it's kind of like a man made religion, it just doesn't work for everyone.

It works for me.
When I joined I had hopes.
Those hopes were exceeded 10X and my life has become enriched in ways I never thought of.

 

[HTMD]

I've responded within quoted portions of your heart-felt post below:

Sfreddo "International Master" Knife of the Year on the cover....check/crack on the Ironwood handle, which is not even mentioned as a material in the description...stop giving flaws in construction a "bye.
I also noticed this. If it is indeed a 'flaw' the bidding could be negatively impacted. It's not a knife submitted for judging though, but rather for raising funds. Could it be that different standards apply? This is a legitimate question about which opinions might vary and an issue not limited to the ABS per se. Would make for a good discussion in it's own thread.

The (prevailing at the time, as explained to me) ABS attitude of "keeping secrets and disseminating misinformation" was discussed at length...
I'm not a maker or blade smith so my experience is limited. However, the myriad of seminars, hammer-ins and courses put on by the ABS, many of which I've attended out of interest, would suggest otherwise.

I thought that the ABS would, after Bill died, move on and allow individual makers to shine...
Yes but I imagine it would take quite a while for any organization to re-set it's course after losing its long-time revered leader - more time than has yet passed.

...the absolute silence of the ABS as an entity concerning the loss of shop and beloved dogs of ABS MS's Adam and Haley DesRosiers and subsequent lack of hue and cry when E.R. Russ Andrews lost his shop as well speaks volumes to me about how little the individual accomplishments of the contributing members is valued and appreciated, unless directly beneficial to the ABS as a body. Show me how I am wrong...
Many of us could've done more to help, including me. But I just searched the ABS forums and found substantial threads about both of these incidents and others. Your own response STeven, was outstanding and gracious - a model to be emulated and I salute you.

Hope everyone has a great Blade Show, and heartfelt apologies for not attending.
Laura and I will miss you at BLADE this year! You're only a phone call away and it's my turn so expect to hear from me after BLADE.

 

[Gary Mulkey]

Steven--

Since we've never met, I have only gotten to know you through these posts online. I must admit that initially my impression was that you were a true malcontent but I have eventually seen more to your rants. I do believe that you are sincere in your ramblings with a goal in mind though you must admit that your style can be a little course at times (You DO enjoy "stirring the pot".).

My reaction to your lambasting of the ABS is that any organization is only what you make of it. It's very easy to demean something or someone but difficult to bring about change without effort. If you truly want to see change in the ABS then spend the effort to do so. If it disappoints you that nothing was said of the tragedies that occurred with Adam & Hailey as well as Russ then I suggest that you write an article for the journal. Carolyn Hughes is one of the most caring people that I know and would probably welcome any articles about this that get submitted.

All this being said, I welcome the day when I get the chance to sit down with you over a cold adult beverage and reflect on "things"..

Gary

 

[JParanee]

I'm skewed on my opinion of the ABS

As you know I am good friends with Bill Bagwell and as most of you know he was a founding member

As most of you know he also turned in his MS stamp and told them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine

I'll be honest.... I love forged blades so I'm glad there is a society that promotes them

But in my own buying choices I could care less about MS or JS stamps in most cases

Like any organization that is under the same basic leadership for any real length of time if they don't phase out the old and embrace the new leadership their hands are tied and we all know it's kind of hard to swim that way

I wish the ABS well..... but for me it and the stamps they provide are inconsequential

 

[Lorien]

As you know I am good friends with Bill Bagwell and as most of you know he was a founding member

As most of you know he also turned in his MS stamp and told them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine

now you got me curious...

 

[Calhoon]

"There is really no longer a reason to forge a blade. As some say its a great way to ruin a perfectly good piece of steel and I agree with that." I'm curious as to what this means? can someone enlighten me? Thanks in advance!

 

[DesRosiers]

Steven,
You and I have discussed all of these issues at length durring many excellent conversations. I understand your frustration, and I understand that it comes from your true desire to see improvement, progress and greatness in the knife world, both forged and not, and I love you for it. I think I can speak for many of us when I say thank you for saying publicly some of the things throughout time that many of us have thought or said in private. On the other hand, since youve called out the ABS with your side of the argument, you've given us a venue to defend it, which I will.

First, I think its critical to point out that the ABS is more than just a few mysterious old board members acting as a dark and dysfunctional governing agency. The ABS is all of "us" "the membership", and collectively, we dont suck Its also critical for us all to understand that the ABS is a limmited organization with clearly stated goals. It has more than successfully achieved those goals of "preserving the art of the forged blade" and "promoting education about the forged blade". Sadly, that leaves a void for all the things we wish the ABS was and unfortunately, is not.

Since you used our own misfortune as an example of shortcoming, I feel compelled to say on the record that the ABS as an organization responded promptly with care and support for us directly, and also with public writings on their own website. I also want to be clear that the ABS as an organization did not give us financial aid to help with the shop rebuild, and I would have been very upset if they had. The ABS is definitely not a charitable organization, and it would have been a betrayal of the membership to spend their money on anything outside the betterment of the ABS as a whole. Individually, both the membership of the ABS and the greater knife community came to our aid in an outstanding and overwhelming way that humbled and lifted us up all at once. No small part of which, you yourself were instrumental.

The ABS may not be what we would all like it to be, but as Larry Fuegen once pointed out to me, there is not a bladesmith alive today that has not in some way benefitted from the existance of the ABS, myself included.
The ABS newsletter may not be a glamour magazine, but at least it shows up to often enough to remind us of all our blade brothers and sisters that are out there living this knife life.
I too noticed the crack in the Ironwood handle on Rodrigo's knife, but I can assure you that he didn't send it out that way. It is unfortunate that it was not fixed before being photographed. I know you and he have had your difference of opinion on material choices, but those are opinions. we're all entitled to have them, and as you pointed out, we buy what we like.

It may be the apropriate time in history to found a new organization with a different set of goals, but maybe as Gary pointed out, we all just need to to give more to get more.

I would like to point out that I joined the Knifemakers Guild atthe ICCE show last year. I did so in hopes to expand my horizons and network with many of the worlds best "non forged" makers. Since that date, I have recieved exactly one communication from the guild, and that was a receipt for my $200. dues. On counterpoint, in that same time, I have received 3 ABS newsletters, and no less than one or two monthly email newsletters, all included with my voluntary $60. membership dues. I am not saying this to disparage the Guild, simply to point out that for all that it is not, the ABS is still the best we have. I have high hopes that the ABS will continue to be an active force for good in the knife world, and that hopefully they will make changes and progress to keep relevant in our ever changing world.

It is obvious that you, Steven, will put your money where your mouth is. You are active in your community, although as often as not, you choose the stick rather than the carrot to exhort the rest of us into action and self betterment. I would ask that the rest of us take Gary's advice to heart and seek out ways we can all promote this community positively, rather than sitting on our asses and complaining that more isn't being done for us.

Love and kisses.

Adam.

 

[Don Hanson III]

"There is really no longer a reason to forge a blade. As some say its a great way to ruin a perfectly good piece of steel and I agree with that." I'm curious as to what this means? can someone enlighten me? Thanks in advance!

False statment.

My favorite steel is only available in round bar stock, most of it 2"+ diameter. I guess a person could grind a blade out if it, but damn what a waste of time and steel.

Now on the other hand, a person can ruin a perfectly good piece of steel if he doesn't know what he's doing.

 

[Karl B. Andersen]

False statment.

My favorite steel is only available in round bar stock, most of it 2"+ diameter. I guess a person could grind a blade out if it, but damn what a waste of time and steel.

Now on the other hand, a person can ruin a perfectly good piece of steel if he doesn't know what he's doing.

Correct. A person can easily ruin any knife cut out of a piece of bar stock during heat treatment.
Any person knowing a tad bit about thermal properties can return a piece of steel back to its original condition after forging.
"Jesus Christ can send a piece of steel down from Heaven.
It will only be as good as the heat treatment it gets on Earth."
Jerry Rados.
(Regardless of forged or stock removal.)

 

[Kohai999]

I thought the thread title was kind of catchy, it was also more than a little "tongue in cheek".

The discussion is good, don't you think?

Bottom line is with things in the knife business changing in the blink of an eye, adaptability is no longer a good quality to have, it is absolutely necessary at the leadership level.

I could become as involved as time allows, but if the body of leadership does not see a need to adapt and change, then my efforts would be wasted and there is only so much life that each of us are allotted.

Would like what time I have left to be used wisely and with concrete results.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Lorien]

great post, Haley!