The ABS....still suckin' after all these years...

You are awfully hard on the ABS, my friend. Of course the organization isn't perfect but then what organization is. Their mission is teaching knifemakers and they do a good job of that.
The forged blade or even custom knives as a whole would not be where it is today without them. Certainly they aren't what some of us would like them to be but they serve a purpose.

Like any organization that is under the same basic leadership for any real length of time if they don't phase out the old and embrace the new leadership their hands are tied and we all know it's kind of hard to swim that way

I wish the ABS well..... but for me it and the stamps they provide are inconsequential

I agree Joe, every organization needs new energy, new ideas, new blood from time to time if it is going to continue to be successful.

Actually, I would really like to see a third ABS stamp a "Grand Master" to separate the truly elite from the rest.

"There is really no longer a reason to forge a blade. As some say its a great way to ruin a perfectly good piece of steel and I agree with that." I'm curious as to what this means? can someone enlighten me? Thanks in advance!

That's the most ridiculous post I have read in a while.
 
great post, Haley!

Thanks Lorien but that was my better half, I never sign off with hugs and kisses 😉
I'm sorry for any frustration we cause with our shared account. It may be time to quit being cheapskates and pay for two.

Haley
 
you are both so well spoken...er, typed (?)
 
I like the ABS mainly for the fact that it stays true to the forged blade. I hope it keeps the antiquity/history/heritage of that side of knifemaking alive. For me that's what it stands for. I wouldn't count that as one of its weak points, rather a strength.
 
You are awfully hard on the ABS, my friend. Of course the organization isn't perfect but then what organization is. Their mission is teaching knifemakers and they do a good job of that.
The forged blade or even custom knives as a whole would not be where it is today without them. Certainly they aren't what some of us would like them to be but they serve a purpose.

I'm mostly hard on B.R. Hughes, Kevin, and we both know there is a reason for that!

If I didn't believe that the ABS served a good purpose in principle, would never have joined.

Actually, I would really like to see a third ABS stamp a "Grand Master" to separate the truly elite from the rest.

I would too!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Actually, I would really like to see a third ABS stamp a "Grand Master" to separate the truly elite from the rest.

I would rename myself 'Flash', and learn to be the best bladesmith ever if the ABS chose to include 'Grand Master'. :)
 
I thought the thread title was kind of catchy, it was also more than a little "tongue in cheek".

The discussion is good, don't you think?

Bottom line is with things in the knife business changing in the blink of an eye, adaptability is no longer a good quality to have, it is absolutely necessary at the leadership level.

I could become as involved as time allows, but if the body of leadership does not see a need to adapt and change, then my efforts would be wasted and there is only so much life that each of us are allotted.

Would like what time I have left to be used wisely and with concrete results.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

It is a good discussion. I agree that we all only have so much life. That is why I like to focus on doing rather than criticizing. A bladesmith and former Marine and English Professor, and now uber-successful businessman, Dave Stephens quotes Theodore Roosevelt as his sign-off to forum posts.

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly."

What I mean from this is, there are several talented people right here. If you want a change, make it.

I actually just joined the ABS because there is a wealth of talent and information present, and an air of sharing of information. I have only been around the knife community for about 8 years, and I learned from Fogg and J.D., also. Kevin Cashen taught me to forge, at Ashokan (you should all attend). They are all ABS members, too.

Karl Anderson has taught me a great deal in the past few months via internet, and my good friend Matthew Parkinson is testing for JS at Blade this year.

My point - I am too new to see the clouds of the past. I am not saying that they don't exist, because I have heard about them from Dan Mariagni and Don Fogg and others. BUT, there is a serious spirit of empiricism and sharing in the current crop of ABS folks. At least, there is in the ones I know.

Honestly, I do not know enough to comment on what the organization could have done to encourage or embrace collectors as well as smiths. Maybe you have a good point, there. It seems like it is to me, but I am new.

take care,
kc
 
False statment.

My favorite steel is only available in round bar stock, most of it 2"+ diameter. I guess a person could grind a blade out if it, but damn what a waste of time and steel.

Now on the other hand, a person can ruin a perfectly good piece of steel if he doesn't know what he's doing.

Correct. A person can easily ruin any knife cut out of a piece of bar stock during heat treatment.
Any person knowing a tad bit about thermal properties can return a piece of steel back to its original condition after forging.
"Jesus Christ can send a piece of steel down from Heaven.
It will only be as good as the heat treatment it gets on Earth."
Jerry Rados.
(Regardless of forged or stock removal.)

Come on you guys know what I'm talking about!

Calhoon what I was referring to were the old days before steel foundries and power tools. When you couldn't order steel with perfect composition in the right size and thickness and go straight to the grinder with it. In those days you had no choice. Today a knifemaker can buy what he needs grind and heat treat this way his entire career and never forge anything.

Forging introduces problems that are not possible grinding, like melting steel or burning out your carbon. I know this from personal experience :D

That's why I joined the ABS.

-Clint
 
^^
"There is really no longer a reason to forge a blade. As some say its a great way to ruin a perfectly good piece of steel and I agree with that." I'm curious as to what this means? can someone enlighten me? Thanks in advance!

That's the most ridiculous post I have read in a while.

Sorry Calhoon, as I now see you were not the originator of the above statement, you were just quoting Augus7us.
Going forward you may want to utilize the "Reply With Quote" function located in the post's top right hand corner.

I agree Joe, every organization needs new energy, new ideas, new blood from time to time if it is going to continue to be successful.
Actually, I would really like to see a third ABS stamp a "Grand Master" to separate the truly elite from the rest.

In an effort to keep from taking this thread off topic, I will start another thread to discuss the possibility of creating of an elevated designated above the current ABS "Masters".
 
Thanks Lorien but that was my better half, I never sign off with hugs and kisses 😉
I'm sorry for any frustration we cause with our shared account. It may be time to quit being cheapskates and pay for two.

Haley
Dang Haley, I was drinking coffee when I read that. Too funny! :D
 
The ABS is a living entity that, much like its individual members, grows, ages, and changes over time. The pace and direction of those changes may not always be to everyone's liking, but such is the way of things in just about any organization.

But when we discuss an organization like the ABS, I think it's very important to understand the distinction between its leadership and its membership. The Board of Directors is in essence the "brain" of the ABS, while the general membership can be viewed as its heart and soul. There may be times when the brain doesn't listen to, or overrules what the heart is saying, just as there are times when the heart doesn't care one bit for the brain's logic, but the health of the organization depends upon the ability for the two to work in concert towards a common goal. Openness, transparency, and communication here are critical towards those ends.

In my own experience with the ABS, I can say without any doubt or reservation that some of the finest people I've ever met are counted among its members. Their contributions, both individually and collectively, to both the art and science of knifemaking cannot be understated.

I can also say that there are individuals within the ABS leadership that are very open and receptive to the input of the rank and file. These people clearly want to move the ABS forward, and they give me great hope and encouragement about the future of the organization because, let's be honest, a lot has changed since the ABS was founded some 40 years ago. The advancements in science and technology alone are enough to make us all far more knowledgeable and capable than we ever could have been even just a generation ago.

That said, there are also some folks who are very resistant to change. This is as true in life as it is within the ABS; some folks simply view any kind of change as a threat, rather than the opportunity that it can represent. It is therefore up to those of us who wish to move the organization forward to present our ideas in an open, thoughtful, and rational manner to let brain of the ABS hear what the heart is saying.

So I put it back to you, STeven - what would you like to see change within the ABS, and how would you propose to effect said changes?
 
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So I put it back to you, STeven - what would you like to see change within the ABS, and how would you propose to effect said changes?

Hello my good friend.

1. Recognize individual accomplishments.....Bill Moran was not the only trailblazer. There should be a mechanism to give credit to 'smiths who develop steel patterns, knife patterns and heat treat methods. Catalog them, credit them, and teach others how to do it. The ABS pretty much only does the third.

2. Foster collectors actively. The charter should be changed to specifically regard this. Offer deals to collectors who attend ABS events, hold seminars that offer real substance to collectors....go to schools, colleges, churches, civic organizations....tell people about forged blades, maybe do a demo....make it so they can't live without a D. Wulf blade!!!

3. Ditch the Moran idol worship.....balance it out....what is happening now is a very kinetic time, and the ABS is STILL plugging a lot of antiquated designs vis a vis the press given in the newsletter and what is publicly praised during the banquet. I'm very interested to see what happens with Samuel Lurquin's MS knife judging. Some of the judges in that room are likely not going to "get" what he is doing, but it accurately reflects where the ABS could be going if it paid more attention to current market trends and desires.

This is a starter for continued discussion.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Hello my good friend.

1. Recognize individual accomplishments.....Bill Moran was not the only trailblazer. There should be a mechanism to give credit to 'smiths who develop steel patterns, knife patterns and heat treat methods. Catalog them, credit them, and teach others how to do it. The ABS pretty much only does the third.

2. Foster collectors actively. The charter should be changed to specifically regard this. Offer deals to collectors who attend ABS events, hold seminars that offer real substance to collectors....go to schools, colleges, churches, civic organizations....tell people about forged blades, maybe do a demo....make it so they can't live without a D. Wulf blade!!!

3. Ditch the Moran idol worship.....balance it out....what is happening now is a very kinetic time, and the ABS is STILL plugging a lot of antiquated designs vis a vis the press given in the newsletter and what is publicly praised during the banquet. I'm very interested to see what happens with Samuel Lurquin's MS knife judging. Some of the judges in that room are likely not going to "get" what he is doing, but it accurately reflects where the ABS could be going if it paid more attention to current market trends and desires.

This is a starter for continued discussion.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Interesting

Sam should be judged on fit ,finish and execution of design ....... Nothing more nothing less ...... I'm sure he will be
 
"There is really no longer a reason to forge a blade. As some say its a great way to ruin a perfectly good piece of steel and I agree with that." I'm curious as to what this means? can someone enlighten me? Thanks in advance!

That is only true if one is not a forger. To me, as a forger, its the difference between creation and operating a cookie cutter.
 
That is only true if one is not a forger. To me, as a forger, its the difference between creation and operating a cookie cutter.

When you are a hammer everything looks like a nail ;)

Just hope that nail does not get its carbon burned out or has cracks found in it at the worst time possible :D
 
I would rename myself 'Flash', and learn to be the best bladesmith ever if the ABS chose to include 'Grand Master'. :)

Not sure if that's a good idea. You'd be even closer to the edge. Wouldn't want you to lose your head.

(Sorry for going off on a childish tangent...I couldn't help myself):)

Ian.
 
well played, sir.
 
That is only true if one is not a forger. To me, as a forger, its the difference between creation and operating a cookie cutter.

I love making cookies. :thumbup:
 
Are we still stuck on forging VS stock removal debate? The steel doesn't really care!!
Forging opens more possibilities and it is a great time/tooling saver when you know how to do it.
 
Ben Tendick makes awsome cookies! :)
People within the ABS have been great help in learning the craft. Being able to call and discuss problems with a Mastersmith has brought me far down the road. I personally haven't run into much of the "secretive", as a rule we're willing to share. Beyond the educational aspect, I really wouldn't want to rely on an organization to bring me my customers. That should be an individual responsibility. I'm sure as with anything there is room for improvement. The forged vs stock removal argument is ridiculous, imo. Some people need to get over themselves...I really don't think an elitist attitude is a good selling point.
 
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