The Big One

Joined
Mar 22, 2002
Messages
15,742
The moment I held my first khuk, a BAS, I knew I needed something heavier. And I kept getting them heavier. I've cut quite a few trees down with 2 lbs and over khukuris. They did the job. I can't tell you how great it is to hop into Beater Truck with my sons and ramble down the forest road looking for a hike and maybe a tree along the way.

Yvsa once said he liked the Ganga Ram for heavy cutting. So I held in the back of my mind a Ganga Ram, cheaper than the 25" AK. I asked Bill about it and I believe he said something like 'if you really want to cut, get the 25" AK'. But either one was too much. I mean, my chain saw cost 350, why spend the money if the chain saw takes over the heavy chores anyway? And there was talk here of how Conan was the only type capable of swinging the heavy blade.....

When those tremendous Tarwars showed during Christmas, I almost grabbed one- the heaviest at 56 oz. Family obligations called and besides; ...the chain saw et al.

I was there and watched the marvelous 41 oz AK offered recently. Pen knows which one. The truth was I'd lost interest in the specials, many times not even looking at them. Bill said in a recent thread he had a special 25" AK. (Well, so what? They're all special.) There was the begining of a little clamor; he said he thought munk should have it.

I don't know why, but I emailed him.

Now a puzzle is being completed. There was something missing, and now an answer will arrive. I've been down at the post office so often in the past panting like a dog, and had the frenzy Rusty was just talking about while waiting for his WWll. But this isn't like that. An excitment is growing, but not like before. Not high, not bubbling....

Yeah, I'll be in debt for awhile, and my wife will never figure this out as anything but male stupidity, but I've a quiet hunch something is coming to where it belongs. My hands tell me this.

Sorry I went on so long.


munk
 
Munk-- I'm sure that the khukuri will match your expectations. I used to think it was a bit strange when people would talk about HI khukuris as if they were some sort of mystical objects shrouded in portentous magic, but now that I have a few myself, I understand completely. Plese post a field report once the beast arrives.
--Josh
 
Originally posted by munk
I was there and watched the marvelous 41 oz AK offered recently. Pen knows which one.
:( [whimper...] :(

Munk - sometimes I think you and I understand each other on a much deeper level. Your words describe how I've felt lately better than I could say myself. Thank you.
 
Originally posted by munk
I was there and watched the marvelous 41 oz AK offered recently. Pen knows which one.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


[whimper...] Pen


that 41 oz really hurt. I know.



munk
 
Munk has a way -- now if he could just learn to write his books like he writes here he'd be selling a million copies.
 
I've got to get back to it- writing the books- rejection can take care of itself.


munk
 
Munk,

If it's not too personal, what type of books do you write?

Also, I've found that rejection is a lot easier to take, of you have a large knife to cuddle.

Joe
 
I wonder why people ask that question? Like what make and color of car you drive? I dunno. My wife wants me to write science fiction and make money. While I've had an editor write me along with the rejection slip to please submit again, I haven't pursued it. Only story I ever sold was a true one. I'd like to write about life here in the West. I'm very fond of using a not too distant caricature of myself, AS A BIG FAT IDIOT, the anti-hero.

Only book I've written is loosely based upon my life and drinking down and out days. That is not exactly a untrod theme, so I wait until I have some success before trotting that out. You realize by the time this gets done I'm 65? My youngest son is 5 months old. I'm 46. I'm a dead man.

munk
 
Munk,

Didn't mean to hit a nerve. I know that writing is very personal, but I love to read, and would have made a point of trying to get a copy of one of your books. Still will, when you are published.

Joe
 
You didn't hit a nerve at all. Bill's the writer; he made a living.

I'm flattered you even asked, Aardvark. There are some very talented people in this forum, and I'm sure some published authors.

I'm lazy.


People who love good books are special. If it wasn't for the voices in those pages talking to me when I was a kid, I don't think I'd have made it.

If you're ever killing time in a library some day, see if they've heard of a magazine called, The Sun. Issue 218, Feb. 1994
I sat down one day saying to myself, "what do magazine's want?" and wrote a story; Stuck. That was accepted, to my shock and amazement, and they actually paid me. Since then, rejection slips.


munk
 
Ahhhhhhh yes how many times does the Khurkuri go into the fire. Frist a piece of raw metal goes into the forge it comes out soft and workable. But cools and needs to go back into the fire. Again its workable again it cools.Back into the fire it goes. Finaly it is shaped.Then guess what, Back into the fire for tempering. A writer is is like a Khurkuri. In and out of the fire being burned,being shaped,being hardened.But,when both are tempered you have a story and a tool that will stay with a person for a lifetime.
 
....maybe I'd better say something about size:

I don't want this AK because it's the 'biggest'. The usual run of blades are able to take care of most tasks. If called upon, they can cut down trees. But if you're going to be cutting down trees often, they are not the right tool, any more than lugging the 25" AK across country would be the right tool for an extended pack trip.

I'd been going up in weight by increments, and not getting anywhere, and I'd been afraid to take this step.

It's still overwhelming. Geeze. Me? With a HONKIN KILLER BLADE?

munk
 
We're all dead men, munk, or at least doomed to die. Certainly inspires one to get out and try new thing, eh?

As a fellow writer, I could comiserate, but I shant. Its a tough job, rarely appreciated, must have thick skin when dealing with the editors. Also, the novel business is set up much like the music business...If they don't think it will be a best seller, they often turn the manuscript away.

Currently, I write technical pubs for software companies, which pays steady, ain't quite as fun as the control you have over your own book. Hafta follow their styles, etc. I do get published often though, but software manuals are seldom read or enjoyed when they are read. It can be a thankless job...

As for bik khuks Im in! My smallest weighs in at 1.5lbs, and the majority are i the 16.5-27" & 2+ pounds category. after you crest two pounds, I think the onnly thing that will increase cutting potential is the khuk's edge geometry. A blade that is thinner at the edge up to the bevel will increase cutting depth, but at the sacrifice of strength. But if you had the weight of an AK and the edge profile of the GS....watch out!

Cutting rawhide rolls is a good test of cutting with mass vs. cutting with slim edge geometry. for instance, If I cut a 2" diameter roll of rawhide with my AK, the cut goes almost all the way thru, then the last bit is ripped apart because the khuk is pushinng down,and the thick sides of the AK are pushing out. If I do the same test with the Widely-fullered HI falcatta, it cuts all the way thur, with less later pushinng because of the much slimmer profile of the falcatta. (I oulld not use the falcatta to cut trees, tho, because it is a sword. I consider light tests against wood, cardboard, and rawhide testing enuf for this piece. )

Am I off topic yet?

Keith
 
Keith, ( you know we named our newest baby Keith?)

What you said about cutting ability- I'd like to ask you a question, and I'm certain I don't know all the correct science to ask it-

but it seems to me that a blade can only go in so far- related to its leverage, weight and edge, and the material it has entered. Attempts to swing harder do not noticably drive the blade in deeper. A heavy, long Khukuri like the 25" will have the leverage and mass to drive in deep without having to use as much strength. Frankly, it should be easier to cut trees down than with a lighter 2lb blade where you have to strike so often and so hard.

Am I right about a blade 'wanting' to go in only so far, and extra effort is disproportionate to the amount it will go in farther?

ulp.

munk
 
munk - it's my understanding that that relates mostly to hollow-ground blades and not to convex or flat-ground knives.

A blade is a wedge, not just a cutting edge. As long as there is force, there will be splitting. As long as there is splitting, the wood should keep moving away from the blade - allowing it to go deeper, etc. (it's only aggravated by poor handling, cutting angle, etc.)

Now, that said, I do think that the force needed to overcome certain materials' desires to stay intact can grow exponentially with the depth desired. ie. it may take "X" force to go 1 inch but "4X" to go 1 inch ~ or something like that. Then, since we are the ones limited by how much force we can exert, it seems that the blade will only ever go so far in.

until the next big guy comes along - like that guy in the latest Blade magazine doing his "double chop"...:eek:
 
Hi, munk:

OI think you're on the right track with your reasoning. In my test cutting experience, there are 3 influential factors (two for the khuk, and at least one for the user):
1. Blade geometry
2. Blade mass
3. User cut proficiency and technique

All three of these factors combined determine blade performance.

"a blade can only go in so far- related to its leverage, weight and edge, and the material it has entered. Attempts to swing harder do not noticably drive the blade in deeper."--Yep, this certainnly runs concurrent with my findings. even with a hi-mass, acute angled edge geometry, and powerful and proper technique, you will still hang the blade in thinker materials.

Why does the blade stop in a target? Well there are a few factors, but here's the two I keep coming abck to: (for this discussion, we will assume the target is a log some 8-14" in diameter, and you are swinging into the side of the log.)
1. Denisty - The denser the target, the harder to cut the target is. Seems logical. The denser the target, the more compression it has to exert on the khuk. See Compression.
2. Compression - Once the edge enters the material, the rest of the knife follows, pushing more and more width into the target. this is causing the log to compress around the sides of the blade, causing friction between the blade & log (which also produces heat that you can feel on a blade you've been using to cut for a while) which stops the knnife. In this example it really doesn't matter how wicked-sharp the edge is, as either way the sides of the khuk are gonna bind in the wood.
Comression is harder to observe when cutting smaller or thinner targets, because they do not have the mass to compress enough of the blade to halt it. The blade just pushes the target material to either side of the edge out of the way, like cuttinng water.
Compression will suck the power right out of a swing dure to the friciton that is hard to overcome (so hard you might hafta really lever the khuk up and down to free it from the target).
Compression can be overcome by having a knife with a more acute edge geometry, but then there are structural considerations which suggest that for the khuk to hold up to such abuse, it must be a certain thickness.
If you can overcome the compressive forces of a target (hey, it's the stuff that holds stuff together) you can cut effortlessly thru any target.


SOme experiments for you to try:
Slowly cut a stick butter with your khuk, near one end as if you're gonna put a pat of butter on toast. As you push thru the material, note that the thinner slice moves away fromm the rest of the stick. Why? Well a few reasons: First, you've inserted a cross sedction of a wedge into a rectangle, and the space where the butter was is now occupied by a khuk. Second, The butter pat has not enough mass behind it to compress against the khuk (unlike the still stationary stick of butter, which could avoid total displacemnt because of its mass), so the butter pat springs free. THis is the same when you cut a limb fromm a tree or a tree from the ground. The limb has the tree on one side to provide compression, while the much lighter mass of the limb side that will be severed cannot compress the khuk enuf to stop it.

Next, try cutting a block of cheese, or a frozen stick of butter. This time, cut in the middle of the block or stick. Note that it is a bit harder to cut the center of the block? That's because the target has mass to compress equally on either side of the blade, and we've simulated an increase in density (or at least material hardness). To verify, cut a piece of the end, and you can see that it is much easier to cut.

The Ideal cutting tool would have a blade arond one molecule thick, and then have a bunch of mass and hardness, frictionless, with good flexibility. Since it is only a theoretical situation, we know that in the real world there is nothing that can be that thin and that resilient (or we haven't made it or found it yet). Until then, we'll hafta make dure with our monkey (munk-ey?) tools.

Damn, munk, that's a lot of text. We'll hafta save the rest for another post. Anyhow, that'll get you started, and I think you'll find a better understanding for cuttinng principlles and blade geomety, and tagets, and all that....

Keith
 
THanaks fer naming yer kid after me! Heeeheehe!;)

Keith is an old Gaelic name meaning woods or forest. Here are some related gaelic word-names:

Heath - The rolling grasslands, plains.
Heather - The tiny flowers that grow in the heath that make up the grasslands.

I named my daughter Heather.

There is also a Scottish Clan Keith, which has as its motto "Veritas Vincit" or "Truth COnquers."

Just some fun facts.

Keith
 
Writing is lonely, worse than long distance running, and probably takes more motivation and self start than any profession. I was not good at it.
 
I'm scotts/irish, so I appreciate that. I didn't need all the prima facea explanation, (self evident) but typical to reading something GOOD, found the word for the idea I needed: compression. Yes, that stops the blade. I'm not worried about blades sticking in, you addressed some of your post to that- but cutting efficiently. I've learned in some cases to LESSON my swing strength for better cuts. The extra force beyond the balance of the physics of the tree and blade actually can get one in trouble, as in bounce backs.

Ferrous, I've wanted to tell you something for a long time. I was rather abrupt with you in our earlier post exchanges because I sensed some political differences. I had no business doing that. I'm glad you're around and will soak up whatever knowledge you add to the pool here.
I notice too that you and I share a common problem between us; knowing when to stop posting. Post run-on syndrome. I suffer from too many posts and post run-on syndrome. Gotta know the world is not exactly poised to hear every breath from the munkster.

munk
 
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