The burr

My method seems to work well enough.

First, find out what "grit" of abrasive you use where you can no longer detect a burr forming. 2 steps from that grit, you start taking steps to take the burr off(typically for me, a quick swipe on opposing sides and a cut or two into a piece of wood). On my Worksharp, I mostly use the 150MX, 240MX, 400MX, and 12000AO belt followed by a Mother's Mag & Aluminum Polish loaded belt. The 400MX belt will form the smallest burr given enough strokes, so for the 240MX and 400MX I'll start swiping once on each side to finish off and cut into wood(or use my glass rod).

A strong light reveals no burrs and the edge is sharp enough to pop hairs.
 
rubiconss said:
There are several things in life I have heard of their existence. People talk about them.... I've never seen them.
They have names, general locations, supposed reactive properties - still have never seen one.
Been searching, maybe even found them (occassionally) by accident.;)
The Burr is one such example.

Dolores! is that you?
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Get a tile rubbing stone from the flooring dept of Home Depot - it looks just like a regular combination silicon carbide stone, but made for Ogres. Get a cheap knife and do some grinding on one side as you would if you wanted to grind a fresh bevel - feel free to use a Sharpie. Then get your handheld infrared camera ready, 'cause you're about to experience a Bigfoot sighting! It shouldn't take more than ten or twenty passes to whip up a burr large enough to finish a cabinet.

http://woodgears.ca/scraper/index.html

There will be no mistaking it. Every sighting from there on out will just be a matter of scale, good lighting, and how much magnification is needed. With good overhead lighting, hold the knife blade perpendicular to the floor, edge pointing down, and slowly rotate the edge back and forth. The burr will appear as a halo just off the apex. Edge grind and apex will be bright, then a microscopically thin band of dark, then a ghostly halo of demonic or angelic metal (depending on where you're at in the process) will appear and disappear based on how you angle to the light. Might even be worth it to extinguish any peripheral lighting that might diminish the shadow cast by your overhead.

The burr is out there and might be closer than you think!
 
HeavyHanded said:
Get a tile rubbing stone from the flooring dept of Home Depot - it looks just like a regular combination silicon carbide stone, but made for Ogres. Get a cheap knife and do some grinding on one side as you would if you wanted to grind a fresh bevel - feel free to use a Sharpie. Then get your handheld infrared camera ready, 'cause you're about to experience a Bigfoot sighting! It shouldn't take more than ten or twenty passes to whip up a burr large enough to finish a cabinet.

http://woodgears.ca/scraper/index.html

There will be no mistaking it. Every sighting from there on out will just be a matter of scale, good lighting, and how much magnification is needed. With good overhead lighting, hold the knife blade perpendicular to the floor, edge pointing down, and slowly rotate the edge back and forth. The burr will appear as a halo just off the apex. Edge grind and apex will be bright, then a microscopically thin band of dark, then a ghostly halo of demonic or angelic metal (depending on where you're at in the process) will appear and disappear based on how you angle to the light. Might even be worth it to extinguish any peripheral lighting that might diminish the shadow cast by your overhead.

The burr is out there and might be closer than you think!
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Holy Crap HH:eek: I'm hiding in a closet calling 1 800-PRIEST to come and bless my knives before I go anywhere near them ... I scared.

But seriously, thanks man, that painted a pretty vivid picture even I could follow.

Who knew sharpening could be so much fun.
 
I'll say this about "Sharpening".... like very few (but a couple) things in life, the only one you can ever talk to about it and hope to be understood - is, someone who has actually done it or tried to do it.
Child Birth and Jumping out of a plane come to mind.

Sharpening is way way more difficult/involved than I ever would have thought it could be.

Now, I'm not saying Sharpening is on par with child birth in anyway other than being able to discuss it with someone, just wanted to be clear on that one.
 
My girlfriend has insisted I join the rest of you in normal society and trim my fingernails. It's been so troublesome detecting burrs lately... With my fingernails I could find them when they were super tiny. I've tried using the tip of a needle like richard j pointed out, but it's not quite the same. Luckily I've convinced her that I need my thumbnails for text messaging... So you know, I can keep in contact with her, but I think she's on to me. I don't think I'll be able to properly detect a burr without them :o

In the past I've sometimes used the cloth trick, but I've always felt it never quite picked up the fabric until the burr was huge, and then I would wind up getting all of the pieces of fabric on my stone. Big problem is that even when the burr gets really big like this, I can still barely see it.
 
KennyB said:
My girlfriend has insisted I join the rest of you in normal society and trim my fingernails. It's been so troublesome detecting burrs lately... With my fingernails I could find them when they were super tiny. I've tried using the tip of a needle like richard j pointed out, but it's not quite the same. Luckily I've convinced her that I need my thumbnails for text messaging... So you know, I can keep in contact with her, but I think she's on to me. I don't think I'll be able to properly detect a burr without them :o

In the past I've sometimes used the cloth trick, but I've always felt it never quite picked up the fabric until the burr was huge, and then I would wind up getting all of the pieces of fabric on my stone. Big problem is that even when the burr gets really big like this, I can still barely see it.
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Couldn't find the burr without my fingernails. I sharpen under a very bright light so I can see as much as possible, but that last thousandth... the tiny burr at the finishing stages is imperceptible to my eyes, even with my glasses. If I couldn't feel it, I would be screwed.

Under a bright light and with my glasses I can see the burr if it is big enough by pointing the edge at the light. Sometimes it will reflect back as a dulled edge would do, but I know better.

I never really look for the burr anymore. We are old friends; I know he is there. My thumbnail lets me know. On a really small knife, I pick at the burr with my index finger when I am at the polishing stage.

I keep the bright light over my work to make sure my grinds are even, as scratch free as possible, to make sure I have ground out any minor nicks, and to ensure good polish.

Robert
 
One way I've detected burrs that were otherwise too small to see or feel with a fingernail, is to 'strop' the edge on my jeans or other fabric, or on the rough side of my leather belt. If a burr/wire is there, it will pull fibers from the material, and they will collect in greater excess on the upward side of the blade, opposite the side the burr is leaning to. This also works pretty well on strops coated with paste compounds. A wire that's leaning into the strop will scrape compound off of it, leaving a little line of compound clinging to the edge behind the burr. Same as if you had scratched the strop with your fingernails; compound would collect under your nails.

I've also found some tiny burrs by wiping the edge of the blade with a damp paper towel or tissue. The wet tissue clings to the blade, and any burrs present will snag fibers from the tissue, leaving them hanging at the burr location like little flags. Very convenient. I've also found burrs this way, when slicing into paper. If you pay close attention, paper fibers will sometimes be found hanging on the edge at the location of burrs or dings/chips in the edge.

In all cases, use a magnifier to find the evidence described as above, for the really, really small burrs & wires.

Edit:
BTW, if you strop the edge on the smooth side of a darkly-finished leather belt, even the smallest of burrs on the downward side of the edge will leave some pretty obvious scratches in 'trails' on the leather behind the blade, as you strop. Assuming the belt is able to clean them up, you'll see those trails fade and diminish, as stropping continues.
 
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I will add this method which I found completely by accident (the Burr was There!) When stropping a knife on newspaper IF the Burr IS NOT present, the sound will be very "normal" to the ear and the resistance to knife edge glide will be minimal if any at all.
IF the Burr IS Present, the sound will be noticeable (almost scratchy) and the resistance will be noticeable to the degree that the burrs size and strength BUT if having stropped an edge "sans burr" you will notice an edge with one.
Just another test per/say.
 
rubiconss said:
I will add this method which I found completely by accident (the Burr was There!) When stropping a knife on newspaper IF the Burr IS NOT present, the sound will be very "normal" to the ear and the resistance to knife edge glide will be minimal if any at all.
IF the Burr IS Present, the sound will be noticeable (almost scratchy) and the resistance will be noticeable to the degree that the burrs size and strength BUT if having stropped an edge "sans burr" you will notice an edge with one.
Just another test per/say.
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Good point. I noticed this on my leather belt as well. Definitely 'noisier' on the burr side, as it scrapes the leather. Makes perfect sense.
 
I work my edge up from 600gt, 1000gt, 4000gt to an 8000gt waterstone. It is at this point that I begin to "deburr". With no pressure but the blade itself, I glide back and forth contacting the edge on the backstroke or strop. There is a point when I actually see the burr start to flake off and suspend in the water. At that point, I flush the surface of the stone and repeat until I no longer see any debris coming off. From there I simply strop on prepared leather and finally on wet newspaper laid across the stone. Sharpening has actually become less of an obsession with me. I used to carry on with lapping film and diamond paste... but I'm now "at peace" with the sharpness I get using a less involved process.
 
Rick Marchand said:
I work my edge up from 600gt, 1000gt, 4000gt to an 8000gt waterstone. It is at this point that I begin to "deburr". With no pressure but the blade itself, I glide back and forth contacting the edge on the backstroke or strop. There is a point when I actually see the burr start to flake off and suspend in the water. At that point, I flush the surface of the stone and repeat until I no longer see any debris coming off. From there I simply strop on prepared leather and finally on wet newspaper laid across the stone. Sharpening has actually become less of an obsession with me. I used to carry on with lapping film and diamond paste... but I'm now "at peace" with the sharpness I get using a less involved process.
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Thanks Rick. I believe most of your knives are convex. Do you use a water stone to sharpen a convex edge, and if so, is your technique the same? I always assumed stropping for convex and stones for other grinds.
 
My knives seem to be getting flatter and flatter these days... though they are not "true flat". I use a paddle board hand sander and stones to set the bevels and sharpen my knives. When I refer to a "stropping" stroke I am talking about any movement AWAY from the edge(drag). Maybe that is a semantic error on my part but it is how I keep it straight in my head. I never use a soft backed surface when sharpening. There is a slight lifting motion that happens as I drag the blade across the stone. I used to mentally think about it and my edges were inconsistant. After a bit you start to work from muscle memory and "feel". I went from one (back and forth) stroke every 2 seconds to 2-3 strokes a second without ever digging the edge into the stone. Whenever the human element is left in (no jigs or guides) you will get convex edge. The oldtimers who sharpen their pocket knives on hard stones with a circular motion always nail that shallow convex. If you look at the edge you can see no visable secondary bevel. The rocking/lifting movements are very slight.
 
Excellent thread Knifenut! Thanks to all that posted all this info. Very useful
information. I learned a good bit...

Jason
 
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