The camp tramp is back !!!

Gravelface said:
The Battle Rat was offered in both DH and TH, I have not ever read a review stating that one performs better over the other.
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Good point J. You never hear of the black & tan handled Battle Rats giving anyone touble...

Either way, my order is in.
 
Bruce, I have no doubt you get more lateral strenght with a DHT, but we are talking about a 1/4" thick slab of steel with an already superior HT, that is approx. 12" over all, how much lateral strenght could a person apply without the benefit of a cheater bar attached to it that would cause failure. And I would love to see actual numbers on what a DHT vs THT Battle Rat could take laterally to the point of breaking.

Either way it WILL be an incredible knife and I do like the DHT knives more, just cause that Line looks great after a beadblast!!!!
 
Did someone say Camp Tramp?? ;)

While I've still seen no official word about the 711 heat treat... kinda like the Ganza Black-and-Tan Battle Rats that were thru-hardened: would I like it better if they were DHT? Yeah. Does it scare me that they're not? Nope.

Like Jason, I do like the look of the DHT when stripped! :)

Jason - didn't you own a B&T Battle Rat? :p (The first dose was free... well, almost. After that, a junky is born.)
 
The Black and Tan was my gateway drug!!! And a wonderous path it has taken me on, thanks again for that one!!!
 
Gravelface said:
I do like the DHT knives more, just cause that Line looks great after a beadblast!!!!
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No argument there, Jason. :thumbup: :D Still, I don't understand why Dan won't publish that spec, especially as he's been asked the question repeatedly.

Edit: Dan just posted and Thrill is correct. The 711 is through-hardened. I also read t1mpani's post on the Swamp Rat forum concerning heat treatment. t1mpani is VASTLY more knowledgable on such matters than I am. And I have no doubt that even though the 711 is through-hardened, it will be strong as hell. But it does beg a question that t1mpani didn't address. If 1/4" thick slabs of Jerry's through-hardened 52100 are stronger than anyone is ever likely to need, why does Jerry bother to differentially heat-treat any of them? :confused:
 
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Well, I can't address it authoritatively as I don't have any connection to the company, but I'll offer this as it might be applicable...

I always use Grade 8 fasteners when I build anything that requires bolts. Always, that is, except for a couple years ago when building a deck/stairs for my sister's house. Arrival at her local Home Depot found an EXTREMELY limited supply of 5/16" Grade 8 bolts (about seven) and as I needed more than 100, my options were two:
1) Go with the available Grade 5 5/16" bolts which were only six times as strong as I required them to be instead of Six and a half times as strong, or...
2) Drive 45 minutes into Nashville and then 45 minutes back to obtain Grade 8s

I ended up going with the first option, and have full confidence in my construction regardless of the "inferior" hardware choice, as the realistic difference came nowhere close to justifying the added effort that option #2 would have entailed. Had I only known that someday I'd have a reason to include that story as a semi-relevant anecdote! ;)

It may be, with rising costs of steel, rising costs of doing business, and a dropping dollar all taken together, the Busse group decided that the added *maybe* 5% of performance (and only in really extreme circumstances) did not justify the added cost of the differential hardening process, especially since the Yard's and Swamp's original company missions were to provide high performance knives at lowered cost.
 
t1mpani said:
It may be, with rising costs of steel, rising costs of doing business, and a dropping dollar all taken together, the Busse group decided that the added *maybe* 5% of performance (and only in really extreme circumstances) did not justify the added cost of the differential hardening process, especially since the Yard's and Swamp's original company missions were to provide high performance knives at lowered cost.
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Yes. That explanation makes sense to me. Thanks for answering my question, t1mpani. :thumbup:
 
In my experience a differential HT gives you better edge retention. All my DHT Rats hold an edge longer than my non DHT ones. I think the edge is run at higher hardness not only because of the increased edge holding Ive noticed but also because its the only SR101 Ive ever had chip on me.

I am curious what the hardness of DHT edges are. I am guessing they are probably in the 60-62 range as opposed to the normal 58-60 standard.
 
I'll let the company jump in and correct me if needs be, but I just don't think that's the case. The variance that will be produced in an edge geometry that's even one degree per side more substantial than another is far more likely to be the culprit in terms of that kind of noticed difference, or even several knives in your collection being towards the low end of the 58 HRC range while a couple are more towards the 60 HRC. Every single differentially treated Rat was thru-hardened at one time. They temper the entire blade and then protect the edge with a heat sink while they draw down the hardness of the spine/tang. From the standpoint of sanity in manufacturing, I have trouble seeing them arbitrarily assigning a different hardness to a select group of knives, requiring that those SR-101 blades be kept separate from all others. My logic aside, the other reason I doubt that the DHT edges are in the low sixties is because my ancient (80+ years) kitchen steel so readily realigns every SR-101 edge I've ever tried over the last decade, and that kitchen steel is softer than a CPM M4 hunter I have that's run at 61-63 HRC.

Of course, all of that said, I've certainly been proved wrong in my assumptions on more than one occasion, even when they're based on something more than a guess. :)
 
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While I'm not sure I agree that Jerry's DHT yields little more than a trivial increase in performance, I would agree that the 711 meets the Yard's and Swamp's original company missions of providing high performance knives at lowered cost. I'd also point out that, to the best of my knowledge, Jerry Busse has never produced a knife he wasn't willing to stand behind with the best knife warranty in the industry. So anyone interested in purchasing a 711 would be well advised to do so. But is the 711 a Camp Tramp re-make? It's close. But it's no cigar as far as I'm concerned . . . at least not until the man himself steps up here and says it is.
 
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Hey, I don't blame you---there's only one true authority on this.
 
I'm trying to decide between one of these and the Rodent 9, or trying to get a hold of a differentially hardened blade. The primary use will be banging away on wood (chopping and batoning) when I decide not to bring a hatchet with me, so I want it to be super tough. Yes, I know that both of these are very tough, I can tell that from my howling rat ... but like discussed above, the DH does add lateral strength, etc. I guess my only question is what is the price point like if you want a great knife like this AND differentially heat treated? The busses that I am seeing are in that $400 and up range that I am not willing to go to.
 
Kirk_Ferentz said:
I'm trying to decide between one of these and the Rodent 9, or trying to get a hold of a differentially hardened blade.
The primary use will be banging away on wood (chopping and batoning) when I decide not to bring a hatchet with me, so I want it to be super tough. Yes, I know that both of these are very tough, I can tell that from my howling rat ... but like discussed above, the DH does add lateral strength, etc. I guess my only question is what is the price point like if you want a great knife like this AND differentially heat treated? The busses that I am seeing are in that $400 and up range that I am not willing to go to.
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Well, no Busses. None of the INFI Busses are DHT.

You'll need to start looking at the Exchange.
 
Yeah, on second look, it was a Swamp Rat Rat Daddy LE on the exchange, for $430. If I have to pay that much to get a DH blade that is in the same class as a swamp rat, I'll go with the Rodent 9 or scrapyard 711. I'm not sure if there are any other DH blades that fit the bill out there.
 
Unfortunately, I didn't know about the Camp Tramps when they were being produced, but I'll be more than happy to settle for a 711. :D
 
Keep in mind that some alloys have enough inherent lateral strength that they don't need to be differentially hardened. Among them are S7 (or SR77), INFI and CPM-3V. These alloys are used most famously in knives produced by Scrap Yard (SR77), Busse Combat (INFI) and Fehrman Knives (CPM-3V).
 
yeah I wonder if it is a pretty obsolete technology given the steels that we are working with today. I'm guessing it adds at least something to SR-101, otherwise I don't think the swamp would have ever done it to those blades. But how much does it really offer and at what cost?
 
That's easy. It's always cheaper to buy Busse Kin knives directly from the factory.
 
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