The Cheburkov Channel--Picture & Discussion Thread

[K.O.D.]

I only have a Strizh, and while it is steel bearings, once I cleaned the black goop out of it, put some nano oil on, it has one of the best actions I've experienced. The CF is perfect.

Shiros are nice, have some of the best action I've handled, but their overall designs don't do much for me. Best flipper action I've handled was a Biryukov actually,but at 4.1" that was just too big of a blade for me. However 5 months later I'm reconsidering.

 

[sharp_edge]

I notice some of the models of Cheburkov with ti on the lockside and line+cf on the other side where the liner alone has the same thickness as the lockside, which means the show side overall is thicker than the lockside, and also one side is flat while the other side is contoured (specifically the cf scale). Does this lead to an unbalanced feeling when holding the knife in hand? I know I am almost nitpicking. BTW, the liner is usually also ti, correct? In other words, they are just like Hinderer's but not like ZTs.

 

[ChazzyP]

To chime in here on the recent discussion I'll first mention that I have, at this point, 6 Cheburkovs and 9 Shiro's. To quote my OP, "...I thought I'd start a new thread for Alexander's work as it is excellent, there is great variety amongst his offerings, their pricing represents great value, and his knives certainly deserve recognition and discussion on their own merit." To that end, I'll just re-affirm that without making any direct comparisons between the two maker's knives, but will react to a few points made here earlier.

To address some of sharp_edge 's concerns, the only difficult break in of any of my Cheb's was with my Leader Light that I discussed in an earlier post responding to his query. This was due largely to it's unusual liner-less liner-lock construction and it's come around nicely now. None of my Cheb's had rough action to start or needed any break-in other than what one would normally expect in any brand-new knife.

Shirogorov also uses steel bearings. Their rep Tom has told me that's because they can't source ceramic bearings that consistently conform to their tolerances. I've not had any edges on any of my Cheb's that felt uncomfortable or in need of additional chamfering. As to the pocket clips, as much as I like Russian knives--I also have a few Biryukovs and CKFs--I'm not the biggest fan of sculpted clips as they all seem to have lower clearance than I'd like and are pretty stiff when new. They all seem to break in over time, though some better than others. My Shiro Tabargan has an old-style spring clip on risers and my new Cheb Leader has a hybrid sculpted/spring clip that I like a lot.

Sharp_edge wrote "The latter [Shiro] does not have these (minor) issues am I correct?" Well, all knives have their little niggles or things we'd like different or prefer not to deal with. None of my Shiro's came particularly sharp--all needed at least some touch up. None of them save my budget-line Quantum Ursus NL, were drop-shut when I received them. (Side note, is a $650 piece really a budget knife?). All Russian knives seem to come with black, gunky grease in 'em and all mine benefited greatly from disassembly, clean-out, re-lubing with NanoOil, and adding a dab of fluoro grease to the detent ball or hole. All flip much better and drop shut nicely after a little cleaning and tune-up.

sixplymaple , at least some Cheb's come with internal milling. My Frieze is extensively milled out and I know that some Scouts are, though mine is not. Alexandr also seems to be making more "Light" models like my single CF-side Hudson (Gudzon) and all-CF Leader. I know that the limited run Bear (Medved) is and wonder if the regular model is as well.

I'm a little confused about Chronovore 's distaste for detent-ball ramps. I love 'em and am particularly taken with the construction of a few of my Cheb's that have their ramps and detent ball engagement situated at right angles to the blade's long axis for better leverage and negligible engagement. I usually close so the flipper tab hits my thumb nail after the detent ball is engaged, but the aforementioned Cheb's are up on the ricasso before that for a smooth and safe closure--just the opposite of something like an RHK with its long flipper and the ball slamming up against the lock ramp edge.

Well, that's a wall of text and more than 'nuff said here for sure. hhmoore had it right, "It's all about choices...so ymmv."

 

[sharp_edge]

Now you are really making it difficult for me to decide which one to get first. Specifically, I am looking at Cheburkov Leader with milled titanium on both sides and Shiro F95 Zero. I know the latter is much more expensive but there happens to be one on sale now at the Exchange (though not sure if still available).

 

[Chronovore]

Not trying to rain on the parade because I have been researching into this brand and thinking about buying one or two its knives, but a few things make me hesitate based on what I read here and on youtube: the action out of the box could be a bit rough/stiff that needs a break-in period, steel bearings rather than ceramic bearings are used, sometimes handle edges could be chamferred a bit better to make it more comfortable in hands (e.g., ti Scout), and the pocket clips on some models do not provide enough clearance for easy in and out of the pocket and secure carry. Am I far off about these things?

Part of me is thinking between Cheburkov and Shirogorov (I have not owned knives of either brand). The latter does not have these (minor) issues am I correct? I understand shiros are more expensive (at least $200 but could be more).

This is valid. Unfortunately, crisp edges and pointy corners are a widespread issue for lots of brands. How much of an issue it is can vary by brand and model. For instance, I noticed it a lot more on some Cheburkov models versus others, and none were as bad as my Olamic 247.

I know, lots of tough guys have leather hands, don't care about such things, and think we are a bunch of sissies for complaining. Well, so be it. I just fix the problem when I can. That's fine on budget knives and very easy with materials like G10 and Micarta. Titanium with various finishes is another story and I can't do that at home. I'll often farm it out, like I did on my Frieze (pictured below). Of course, that adds extra cost. I could easily do the mods myself on a CF liner lock like my Leader Light but while it would make for a better user, I'm also wary of putting amateur alterations on knives costing more than $500.

As far as steel bearings and black grease, yeah they're way behind the times versus your average production folder from WE, Kizer, Bestech, etc.. Luckily, $20 can take you just as far in a better direction with vastly superior ceramics from Skiff. You can clean up and apply your favorite lube at the same time. (I recommend the non-toxic gun oil from Lubriplate, which was originally designed for food prep machinery. I've been using for years now. It's fantastic in this role and much more affordable than the leading knife pivot lubes.)

 

[Chronovore]

I'm a little confused about Chronovore 's distaste for detent-ball ramps. I love 'em and am particularly taken with the construction of a few of my Cheb's that have their ramps and detent ball engagement situated at right angles to the blade's long axis for better leverage and negligible engagement. I usually close so the flipper tab hits my thumb nail after the detent ball is engaged, but the aforementioned Cheb's are up on the ricasso before that for a smooth and safe closure--just the opposite of something like an RHK with its long flipper and the ball slamming up against the lock ramp edge.

Don't worry about the wall of text. My previous post above deals with some of the other issues but here is the thing with detent ramps on modern flippers:

1. Detent ramps often interfere with my preferred closure method, which involves me pressing the lock bar with a digit, clearing the detent and stopping the tab on that digit, moving the digit, and then dropping or shaking the blade home. While the exact geometry varies between different designs, there is a relatively small amount of space between clearing the detent and stopping on that digit. Having a detent ramp in that space can often cause the blade to rebound. Whether or not it actually reengages the detent, it usually causes a hiccup in what I'd rather be a smooth process.

2. In the huge number of knives I have without detent ramps, I almost never miss them not being there. It leaves me wondering why they are still a thing. Was there a time or generation of knives where the ball hitting the edge to bump up before the detent hole was really jamming up the action? Again, the exact arrangement, spacing, etc. will vary. I've had a couple without ramps that did clunk a little or didn't offer enough clearance space for my preferred closure method in the first place. However, it just isn't an issue for the overwhelming majority of my modern flippers without ramps. That said...

My $200 WE knives, my less expensive Civivi knives, my Kizers, and flippers from a host of other Chinese companies not using detent ramps actually have better overall action than my much more expensive knives from Russia. They don't all drop shut as nicely but many do. Most have snappier detents and feel better in actuation than my Russian knives. Of course, the Russian knives are getting better heat treatments on their super steels and that shows up in testing. There is also something to be said about pride in ownership. It's just that this remains a valid point of contention.

 

[ChazzyP]

Chronovore , it took me a bit to digest what you last wrote, but I think I get what you're saying now. What can happen, then, is the ball engages somewhere along the detent ramp and upon release the lock bar pressure causes "downhill" movement, as it were, moving the blade more toward the open position and you have to push the lock bar again. Is that right? I can't say that's ever happened to me. I do have one knife, a Biryukov, that has detent ramp issues, but that's a whole 'nother, longer story. I'm fine with all the rest of my knives with ramps.

My bigger issue with detent release and closure involves knives with long flipper tabs or ricasso prominences that engage my thumbnail before the detent ball clears the lock ramp, causing the blade to bounce and requiring another push on the lockbar. Hinderers are particularly prone to this and I find myself needing to keep my thumb further back on the lock bar to avoid this annoying hiccup to my preferred closure method. If I'm using a free-dropping knife I let it do so. I rarely shake a blade down to close, generally either forefinger flicking or wrapping my thumb around.

As to your earlier post, I don't know that I'm a "tough guy" but I do have leathery mitts after a lifetime as a carpenter, sheetmetal fabricator, and working construction. After reading your earlier post I got out all my Chebs and discovered a number of them do indeed have crisp edges which I frankly never really noticed.

 

[sixplymaple]

sixplymaple , at least some Cheb's come with internal milling. My Frieze is extensively milled out and I know that some Scouts are, though mine is not. Alexandr also seems to be making more "Light" models like my single CF-side Hudson (Gudzon) and all-CF Leader. I know that the limited run Bear (Medved) is and wonder if the regular model is as well.

Interesting! Thanks for the detailed response. I had no idea that he did any sort of internal milling. I wish it was on every model and every knife. I wonder if there is any rhyme or reason to it? Curious.

Any thoughts on sharp_edge ’s comments below? I’d love to know about hand feel on the one sided carbon fiber handle insert vs. the double insert… Thanks!

I notice some of the models of Cheburkov with ti on the lockside and line+cf on the other side where the liner alone has the same thickness as the lockside, which means the show side overall is thicker than the lockside, and also one side is flat while the other side is contoured (specifically the cf scale). Does this lead to an unbalanced feeling when holding the knife in hand? I know I am almost nitpicking. BTW, the liner is usually also ti, correct? In other words, they are just like Hinderer's but not like ZTs.

 

[Bing Gao]

Hand feel on double sided vs single sided cf can be a personal preference thing as well. My take is, the single sided ones feels more nimble and definitely feels lighter, while the double sided cf model feels a lot more heavy and comfortable. My preference is double sided cf.

 

[Chronovore]

My bigger issue with detent release and closure involves knives with long flipper tabs...

That's part of the exception I mention to most modern knives being fine despite not having a detent ramp. Both the Mini and XL versions of the Kizer Sheepdog do this for me. (I have limited experience with the regular-sized Sheepdog.) It's not so much an issue of spacing for the detent hole versus the edge of the interface as it is the shape of the flipper tab. The tab hooks down in a way that causes earlier contact with the digit pressing the lock bar. So it often rebounds or straight up fails to clear with my preferred closure method.

The answer they took to complaints about this problem was mostly to just delete the flipper tab and offer an opening hole. (Some models use a removeable flipper tab.) This makes me sad because using the tab to throw out such a huge rectangle of steel feels good. The whole thing could have been fixed just by modifying the shape of the tab.

In these cases, I get the idea of engaging the lock bar lower down. Of course, that can require thought and care. Dropping to a digit without care can be bad if the tab misses the digit...

 

[ChazzyP]

I notice some of the models of Cheburkov with ti on the lockside and line+cf on the other side where the liner alone has the same thickness as the lockside, which means the show side overall is thicker than the lockside, and also one side is flat while the other side is contoured (specifically the cf scale). Does this lead to an unbalanced feeling when holding the knife in hand? I know I am almost nitpicking. BTW, the liner is usually also ti, correct? In other words, they are just like Hinderer's but not like ZTs.

sixplymaple , as you asked for follow-up on the quoted text, starting a little ways back in Alexandr's design evolution his knives with different materials on each side were basically frame locks with an onlay on the show side. My CTek Voron is like that and indeed the two sides are different thicknesses, though not by a lot as the CTek is pretty thin. It doesn't feel imbalanced at all in hand. Having one side contoured and the other flat doesn't feel odd to me as the 3D side nestles nicely into my palm while the flat side with its crisp edges and clip locks in nicely against my fingers.

More recently, Cheburkov has been making lightweight versions of his knives like my Hudson (Gudzon) with a fully CF, un-lined show side which is weight-saving and makes the knife slimmer overall and about the same thickness each side. On the other hand, the newer double-onlay sided Vorons have liners about as thick many all-Ti frame locks. Not to get to Shiro-y here, but think of the new Cheb lightweights as Hati-like and the double sided Vorons similar to F3's both in construction and feel in hand.

All my Cheb's but my small Strizh are large knives and none feel overly heavy to me for what they are. The Gudzon is actually pretty damn light and the LW Leader is ridiculously so at 3.4 oz. My Voron and Scout are pretty substantial with the interior milled all Ti Frieze somewhere in the middle.

AFAIK, all of Cheburkov's folder handles and liners are Ti.

 

[birdave]

sixplymaple , as you asked for follow-up on the quoted text, starting a little ways back in Alexandr's design evolution his knives with different materials on each side were basically frame locks with an onlay on the show side. My CTek Voron is like that and indeed the two sides are different thicknesses, though not by a lot as the CTek is pretty thin. It doesn't feel imbalanced at all in hand. Having one side contoured and the other flat doesn't feel odd to me as the 3D side nestles nicely into my palm while the flat side with its crisp edges and clip locks in nicely against my fingers.

More recently, Cheburkov has been making lightweight versions of his knives like my Hudson (Gudzon) with a fully CF, un-lined show side which is weight-saving and makes the knife slimmer overall and about the same thickness each side. On the other hand, the newer double-onlay sided Vorons have liners about as thick many all-Ti frame locks. Not to get to Shiro-y here, but think of the new Cheb lightweights as Hati-like and the double sided Vorons similar to F3's both in construction and feel in hand.

All my Cheb's but my small Strizh are large knives and none feel overly heavy to me for what they are. The Gudzon is actually pretty damn light and the LW Leader is ridiculously so at 3.4 oz. My Voron and Scout are pretty substantial with the interior milled all Ti Frieze somewhere in the middle.

AFAIK, all of Cheburkov's folder handles and liners are Ti.

Ditto what ChazzyP said! I've got 7 Cheburkovs and Love all of them.

Below is one of them...

 

[sixplymaple]

Thanks for the follow up info guys! From one knife nut to another, it’s appreciated.

Figures, I start getting into Russian made knives during the midst of a war with economic sanctions!

 

[ChazzyP]

Thanks for the follow up info guys! From one knife nut to another, it’s appreciated.

Figures, I start getting into Russian made knives during the midst of a war with economic sanctions!

You're most welcome--always glad to share what little I know with fellow KK's. As you said, It certainly isn't a good time to be looking for Russian knives--with inflation, prices on everything are up and economic sanctions have made importation pretty much impossible. Prices on the Exchange aren't great either with the overall pinch in availability. There's no stock to speak of at Knifecenter, R1, or the Finnish dealer. I don't know how Alex at BTS is getting his knives, but it's certainly good to have at least one source.

 

[ChazzyP]

A little Hudson Lightweight action on a chilly, windy Friday.

 

[birdave]

 

[birdave]

Hudson Lite in S90V

 

[birdave]

 

[argyle1812]

I recently got my first strizh after years of looking. The knife is great but seems to have pretty late lockup. Is this any cause for concern?

 

[ChazzyP]

I recently got my first strizh after years of looking. The knife is great but seems to have pretty late lockup. Is this any cause for concern?

I don't know as it's an issue unless it moves. How's the centering? If the lockup bothers you, you might be able to scale shift it to make it earlier.