The Choil - Why or Why Not

Cereal_killer said:
I like them but sometimes they get in the way. One of the issues I have with them is when cutting cardboard or thick plastic, if you go all the way threw the material up to the choil it tears the heck out of it getting back onto the cutting edge.
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It's really a bear when your knife blade gets "stuck" on the choil. Certain folders have a small "guard" at the front edge of the choil to prevent this from happening...
In the first pic, the Spyderco PM2 has a delightfully efficient "50/50 choil" which solves the "getting stuck" problem.

OTOH, the second pic...of the TAD Dauntless, would be so very high on my list of favorites...EXCEPT for this very accessible choil...with no guard to prevent the accidental hangup. I like a choil...when I want to use the blade for close-up work, but this is not ALWAYS the case. I really love the TAD Dauntless, but sold it quickly due to this one design problem. My opinion, of course.


Sonnydaze
 
I like it on the sng and dragonfly, but most of my knives either have an integrated guard or the ergos are so good it isn't needed.
 
I like em. Looks good, makes fine detail work easy, makes sharpening easy. Not a fan of the elf choil though. Go big or don't have one.
 
I copied this piece of wisdom for the people who haven't seen...this is wisdom by John Frederick. Mods respectively moderate as I am a bag if the douche at times.



While I am talking blades I should move on to one of the most iconic features of the SMF, the blade choil. I know there are a lot of people who dislike or even despise a blade choil but these folks are just wrong (if you count yourself among that sad crowd I apologize for the pain this truth may cause you but with time your butthurt will heal and you may even realize the error of your opinion). The large choil in the blade combined with the smaller sharpening choil does take up a fair amount of space that would normally be reserved for more cutting edge but this is a small price to pay for all the advantages these choils offer.

But before I get into these advantages let me address the two choils from a design aspect, as many people have asked why Mick has not offered a model with one or both choils removed ... both of them are absolutely necessary to the design of the SMF as it is. First the main finger choil provides the relief necessary to allow the blade to fully close... without this void in the blade it would collide with the backspacer before the blade was fully closed, or with standoffs, that section of the blade would stick out past the coverage of the scales. Next, the smaller sharpening choil is there because it doubles as both the blade stop when the blade is closed and because it is one of the requirements of the DOD which purchases SMF's for issue (if you didn't know, SMF actually stands for Strider Military Folder). It also creates some space between the main choil and the edge of the blade which allows the user to take full advantage of the finger choil, regardless of the size of the finger or the ferocity of the cutting action... if you have ever used a finger choil that flows directly into the cutting edge you know that too much aggressive use can lead to blood shed in the finger parts. So if you insist on not liking the choils at least understand that they are there for a good reason and they are utterly necessary to the design.

Now with that little sermon out of the way let me touch on the advantages provided by the choil... safety and versatility.
Safety is always appreciated and with folding knives this cannot be over emphasized... even though proper handling of the knife should preclude any incidents the fact is that shit happens and so do accidents. Obviously the SMF features a locking blade but as with all things mechanical there is the possibility of failure and that is where the blade choil can save the day. If the blade closes on your hand the choil is what first contacts your index finger rather than the cutting edge... it may pinch and bruise but it beats a nerve-severing-bone-deep gash that could destroy your trigger finger.
The second and more oft used advantage of the choil is versatility in how the user can grip the SMF. Years ago I made a thread examining all the different ways one could hold onto the SMF and the gist of it was that the blade choil provided an extra 4 or 5 options when it came to holding the knife. Rather than dredge up an old thread I'll try to explain these options as I have experienced them in the real world.
As I have used my RW for various chores I have found that moving my grip onto the blade choil offers me many advantages depending on the situation. If I need to make a really heavy cut through tough material I usually skip straight to Choked Up on the Choil as this puts the edge right up against my grip and allows me to put all of my strength and leverage straight into the cut. I also use this choked up position for fine detailed work as it allows to most control possible at the tip of the blade. I will also rotate back and forth between normal grip and choil grip when I am using the knife for hard use chores over prolonged periods of time as it helps alleviate any possible hand cramps or hot spots that may develop from heavy extended use. Basically the choil offers the user more options and more safety, both of which are always more gooder.



A pic to help illustrate how the blade choil will save your fingers...
 
All SMF pontification aside (with all due respect), there are plenty of choil-less knives that serve their purpose excellently. I think diversity of style and design allows for many techniques and applications of blade and handle use, and can be left up to the individual. I like both.
 
Can't strand the huge ones on most Spydercos. Turns an already short edge into a shorter one.
 
For me it does not add any benefit. I added a choil to my JYDII but did not take away from the cutting edge, just removed material from the flipper. I use it mostly for cutting my lunch at work or other food prep duties. If I'm cutting through rope or cardboard, the material gets caught up in the choil. Granted, if your using the choil obviously the material cannot get trapped. I never felt the need to choke up on the blade but normally I'm cutting on a work bench or other surface. This turns me off of most Spyderco's. Why have a nearly 9" OAL knife with a cutting edge less than 3"?

Also, I'm not sure I even understand the benefit of having a choil on a small fixed blade like a RAT3 yet not on the larger RAT5. In my search for a good fixed blade for EDC, the BK11 or 14 provides similar cutting edge length in a shorter package than the RAT3. It comes down to personal preference and I prefer not.
 
I've always wanted to experiment with a choil because one can get their hand literally to the blade, which is good for leverage. However, I can almost do that already with most of my blades because that's how they were designed, or by choking up. Which means if I were to get a choil I'd lose blade to make room for the choil. I suppose I don't see a huge advantage by having my hand almost on top of the blade vs 1/8" away from the blade while sacrificing blade.
 
Krav said:
I don't like it, give me more blade.
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+1
Not that I dislike them, I like my sage 2 and caly 3, and dragonfly, but I preferto have more cutting edge most of the time.

I like the ZT 550 with the finger guard in the handle, and flippers can give you good control while protecting your fingers.
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I use them on knives I own that have them but I have knives that don't have a choil and I appreciate the design in those as well.

I really care more about the feel/usefulness of the knife overall than I do a single feature. Some knives have handles that just don't fit the knife, much less a choil. Some knives don't do the choil well or just put it in the wrong place.

Some knives that lack a choil, desperately need one.
 
The Cold Steel Tuff Lite and the Kershaw RAM are the only two knives with choils that I like. The Tuff Lite is a smaller utility knife that just melts into your hand with the choil, and the RAM has it partially integrated into the handle and doesn't sacrifice cutting surface.

Striders, Hinderers, Spyderco Tuff, and more have such unnecessarily large choils that I have never been able to warm up to them, despite really liking all other aspects of the knives.
 
I modified my svords to have deep choils, and I really like the feel and added securitynof them on non locking folders!

In fact, I like finger guards on fixed blades too, not big ones but enough to bypass the whiskey.. ;)


I think the spyderco ukpk got it pretty much nailed too!


 
You guys are killing me.

"Choil" = the area on a blade where the edge bevel terminates into the unsharpened ricasso, i.e. where the plunge-line meets the blade edge. It usually features a sharpening notch or can be expanded to accommodate a finger, such that this notch has come to describe the term. A blade without this notch is deemed "choil-less"

The following is a knife WITH a choil (offered on the 1st page):

img_1702a.jpg


And here is another (pulled from the web):

DSCN0004.jpg


And here is a folding knife withOUT a choil:

FY7A0965-Edit-Edit-Edit.jpg


And another choil-less knife:

Spyderco-UKPK-smooth-CF-20100623-04.jpg



:eek:

That's right, folks, all those Spyderco's featuring finger-grooves in the ricasso do NOT have choil notches! They are choil-less knives! What they have, as just typed, is an extended ricasso with a groove cut in it (and only it) which does not extend into the blade bevel and so does not constitute a "choil"

Here is a knife featuring BOTH an extended and grooved ricasso AND a choil (again, pulled off the web, not my own image):

6951439264_b3a8156432_b.jpg



Now please, out of respect for knives and the making of knives concerning which we are all so enthusiastic, can we be a little more precise with our vocabulary pertaining thereunto? Thank you. Rant/
 
chiral.grolim said:
You guys are killing me.

"Choil" = the area on a blade where the edge bevel terminates into the unsharpened ricasso, i.e. where the plunge-line meets the blade edge. It usually features a sharpening notch or can be expanded to accommodate a finger, such that this notch has come to describe the term. A blade without this notch is deemed "choil-less"

...

Now please, out of respect for knives and the making of knives concerning which we are all so enthusiastic, can we be a little more precise with our vocabulary pertaining thereunto? Thank you. Rant/
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Except that you're completely wrong. The feature you're claiming is not a choil is in fact very commonly referred to as a finger choil. The way language works is that one says words, e.g. "finger choil" that are then understood to have some meaning by those who hear them. Perhaps if you googled finger choil, the fact that there are tens of thousands of hits referring to exactly the meaning that you are claiming is not a choil would clarify this for you.

Even if choil once only meant the sharpening notch, it surely does not only mean that today, as is easily proven above.
 
chiral.grolim said:
You guys are killing me.

"Choil" = the area on a blade where the edge bevel terminates into the unsharpened ricasso, i.e. where the plunge-line meets the blade edge. It usually features a sharpening notch or can be expanded to accommodate a finger, such that this notch has come to describe the term. A blade without this notch is deemed "choil-less


:eek:

That's right, folks, all those Spyderco's featuring finger-grooves in the ricasso do NOT have choil notches! They are choil-less knives! What they have, as just typed, is an extended ricasso with a groove cut in it (and only it) which does not extend into the blade bevel and so does not constitute a "choil"

Here is a knife featuring BOTH an extended and grooved ricasso AND a choil (again, pulled off the web, not my own image):


Now please, out of respect for knives and the making of knives concerning which we are all so enthusiastic, can we be a little more precise with our vocabulary pertaining thereunto? Thank you. Rant/ [images removed to save space - see original post for pics]
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Well, Spyderco considers them a "front-finger choil". What follows is the description of the Dragonfly as provided by Spyderco on their web site:

Spyderco Web Site said:
"Spyderco Dragonfly2

C.Q.I.-Constant Quality Improvement is a process Spyderco uses to evaluate and refine longstanding established knife models. Sometime C.Q.I. changes are large and noticeable, sometimes they're smaller refinements. Recently we applied C.Q.I. to the classic Dragonfly creating a new Dragonfly2. The Dragonfly2 upgrades some notable features over the classic while keeping the important basics.

Features carrying-over to the new version are the tried and tested mid-sized blade and ergonomic handle along with a front-finger choil and spine cusp. Also staying is the blade-to-handle geometry and leveraging points which make the Dragonfly cut and feel like a much larger large knife when in the hand.
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If Spyderco calls it a finger choil then that is good enough by me, especially when discussing a Spyderco knife. ;)
 
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