The Collaboration of the Elite and What it Means for the Consumer

Discussion in 'Survive! Knives' started by Anttheknee, Feb 6, 2016.

  1. Fancier


    Jul 1, 2012
    The ability to resist deformation is the definition of hardness, and Nathan has demonstrated that his 3V heat treat will allow a knife to resist deformation better than the industry standard heat treat.
    Toughness is the ability to withstand fracture under impact, and I haven't heard anything about the fracture resistance of 3V with Nathan's heat treat.
    3V's outstanding characteristic is having very high impact toughness while maintaining good wear resistance.
    With the current Survive heat treat 3V also has good corrosion resistance. I haven't heard anything about the corrosion resistance of 3V with Nathan's heat treat.
    Guy's corrosion resistance testing has been done by exposing knives to weather for months at a time, so his testing process takes a long time to be completed.
    I look forward to more information being added to this thread.
  2. Brian77

    Brian77 Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 27, 2014
    Check out Nathan's latest for sale thread from last Friday for 2 light choppers. There is a wealth of information on that thread.... Someone can link it or copy..
  3. Anttheknee


    Feb 19, 2012
  4. Brian77

    Brian77 Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 27, 2014
    Thanks Ant, I knew you had seen that thread
  5. Anttheknee


    Feb 19, 2012
    No problem.
  6. Fancier


    Jul 1, 2012
    Thanks for the link. I saw that the knives had been posted for sale but I also know that they sell off in seconds.
    I hadn't worked my way through the rest of the comments until you referenced them.
  7. Hard Knocks

    Hard Knocks Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 1, 2012
    Six 'I'll take it" posts in the first minute of the last sale. And people say it's hard to get a GSO :D
  8. Demonic1


    Feb 18, 2008
    How does the new HT protocol affect corrosion resistance?
  9. Texas_toothpick


    Apr 16, 2015
    Supposed to increase the corrosion resistance to my knowledge. How much better is TBD thing right now I think.
  10. rcb2000


    Apr 15, 2014
    I'll chime in here.
    First, I dont believe the purpose of the new HT protocol is to "dethrone INFI", but rather just advance the knowledge, performance, and overall quality of 3V.
    Second, Jerry or anyone that I know of, has ever said INFI is the toughest steel. I actually remember Jerry saying S7 is much tougher than INFI. He does however believe it to be the best combination of toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and lateral strength.
    I have VERY high hopes of the new CPM3V HT protocol,, and am sure it will be a great achievement in the knife making community.

    Just would hate to to see it become another INFI vs XYZ thread.

    Can't wait for my 5.1.... Super excited

    Last edited: Apr 8, 2016
  11. Revolverrodger

    Revolverrodger KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Jul 23, 2007
    This is unlikely
    Edge stability is improved
    Toughness is great
    Wear resistance is good
    But we have no info comparing nathan's HT with the survive HT when it comes to corosion resistance
  12. rcb2000


    Apr 15, 2014
    I read that wrong,whoops

    I do wonder if a slight tweak in the HT could improve corrosion resistance
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2016
  13. tinfoil hat timmy

    tinfoil hat timmy Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 21, 2014
    I think I remember a video or post where Nathan stated that his HT DOES in fact increase corrosion resistance.

    Could be wrong though.
  14. Nathan the Machinist

    Nathan the Machinist KnifeMaker / Machinist / Evil Genius Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 13, 2007
    It does. That's not the purpose of the tweak, but the low temp technique leaves more free chrome. Guy is already using a low temp process, so the corrosion resistance will be very similar. The tweak is a refinement to that process with modifications to reduce certain structures that cause edge stability issues in thin sections. The edge will tolerate a bit more abuse and stay sharp. The amount of free chrome is about the same compared to what he has been doing.
  15. SURVIVE! Ellie

    SURVIVE! Ellie

    Apr 21, 2014
    I'm not a metallurgist and most of my steel knowledge is based on the steels we use so I don't have the most thorough response. However, there are a few things I think I can help clear up.

    Mainly, there is no trade-off here. I think there is a preconceived notion that if you are gaining one thing, you are losing something else. Myself included, I'm so used to saying CPM-20CV has better corrosion resistance but less toughness as compared to CPM-3V. For this situation that isn't the case, the steel is still CPM-3V with the same composition. We are just doing what we can to get the best performance possible with that composition.

    With the new production we moved to a low temper protocol for CPM-3V heat treating. That is where we are seeing the improved corrosion resistance shown in the Instagram post, as well as other attributes. That was a step between our previous heat treat and the upcoming heat treat. The Nathan optimized heat treat is still a low temper protocol so the resultant qualities will be similar to the heat treat used for the GSO-5.1 and GSO-4.7 runs. He has managed to tweak the technique to also improve the edge stability.

    This isn't a new CPM-3V, it is an optimised CPM-3V.

    I also wanted to reaffirm what rcb said, this is not being done to compare to any other steel. We have always liked CPM-3V. However, as with most things, Guy believed there could be room for improvement. The timing worked out that he was able to be put in touch with others who felt the same way, or at least were up to the challenge to find out. I'm not trying to put words in anyone's mouth here.
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2016
  16. rcb2000


    Apr 15, 2014
    Either way you look at it,, it's a win win for all!
    Happy Friday everyone 🍻
  17. OBX351


    Sep 29, 2014
    If the new new heat treat is better than the one on the new 5.1 then some of us will never have to sharpen their knife!! I am really impressed with my new 5.1's blade retention.
  18. Revolverrodger

    Revolverrodger KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Jul 23, 2007
    Excellent news !
    This is starting to look like the best knife steel and HT combo out there
    Maybe even better than the fabled INFI
  19. Demonic1


    Feb 18, 2008
    Thanks for the clarification everyone I really appreciate it.
    I'm used to always having a tradeoff with knife steel qualities which is why I was curious to what it would be in this case. However there doesn't seem to be one here (or if there is no one's found it yet). It's a WIN all the way around. Optimized 3V has a nice ring to it.
  20. TommyGun56

    TommyGun56 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 29, 2014
    Guy or Ellie can chime in, but my understanding is the New Heat Treat will begin production on the New Batch of GSO 4.1's

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