The Devil is in the Details

J

Jason Fry

Joined
Jun 5, 2008
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Making an excellent knife is about a lot of attention to detail. Let's have a thread about those details.

The inspiration for me to start this thread today? I put together a knife for a rush order due completed November 1. I forgot to clock the mosaic pins, so now they don't match. Doh.

Detail to pay attention to: Mosaic pins should be "clocked", that is, put in where they are pointed the same direction so that they look the same if you use two, or so that the pattern is aligned if you use one.
 
Heat treat BEFORE you finish grind and assemble. I'm a lot more organized now...
 
Like that one saying goes "if you dont have time to do it right the first time, when are you going to find time to fix it later" or something along those lines.

I know with myself , walking away from a project when I am tired or have been working on the same thing for hours at a time is the best thing I can do. Everytime I sat something down and come back the next evening there is always something I missed.

Mock ups in my mind are key as well. If that be doing it in wood first, or getting all the parts and pieces layed out how they are gonna go together and doing that a couple of times first. Things like that help.
 
Jason Fry said:
Making an excellent knife is about a lot of attention to detail. Let's have a thread about those details.

The inspiration for me to start this thread today? I put together a knife for a rush order due completed November 1. I forgot to clock the mosaic pins, so now they don't match. Doh.

Detail to pay attention to: Mosaic pins should be "clocked", that is, put in where they are pointed the same direction so that they look the same if you use two, or so that the pattern is aligned if you use one.
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A real easy way to clock the rivets, as well as make it hard to forget to do that, is to saw a shallow slot in both ends. It should look like a screw slot. Make the slot exactly on the 12:00-6:00 axis. When gluing the rivets in the handle, it makes it easy to turn the slots straight up and know they are aligned the same. It would be pretty hard to insert the rivets and not see the slots being mis-aligned. A small screwdriver makes turning the rivets simple. Mine is a short stubby handled screwdriver that now has dried epoxy all over it. I keep it in the glue box so I always know where it is when gluing up handles. I also use it to snug down Corby bolts.
 
Devil is in the details= fit and finish IMO. First thing I look for when looking at how well a knife is built (not just mine but any knife) is how even the plunge lines are on both sides and does the finish have unintended scratches. These are basic things in custom knives but unfortunately are sometimes overlooked when some makers first starts out. Once one knows to look for these things when making a knife (or knowing that others look at these when they look at your knife), it's easy to correct
 
I agree, Bob. You mentioned stray scratches. That's a great one, and a real killer. Nothing like getting a knife "finished" only to find a scratch that you missed.

Another F/F issue that's easy to forget: Gaps. Everything should be flat, and flat should leave no gaps. If you don't pay attention to flatness, then you don't clamp evenly, you get gaps. We know better, but the Devil is in the details.
 
I think that ergonomics and overall aesthetics trumps all, as much as I hate to admit it. A design with bad ergonomics and aesthetics cannot be saved with good fit and finish. A well designed knife with bad fit and finish is much more useful and probably more appealing, than the opposite. Even so, I strive to make mine the best possible in every department.

When I see a well designed knife that has some finish errors, its more of a "well that's too bad" response. When a knife has bad lines or bad aesthetic or physical balance, it provokes a more unpleasant response.
 
The worst thing for me is proud pins. I was an idiot and designed my first run of hawks with 9 1/8th stainless pins. Its a very asthetically pleasing pin design but I've just about given up on trying to get them completely flat. I could spend all day sanding one handle and still end up with the pins slightly proud. I do alot of my handle shaping with a scalloped Jflex belt with the platen removed but when I use this method I end up with the pins proud because there's no backing. Then I file them down and use a hard sanding block to try to remove scratches and bring them flush. This takes ages and after I'm done I usually see some slight unevenness in the handle and have to go back to the slack belt and fix it. Lather, rinse repeat. I spent 10 hours on one before I just said screw it and left the pins proud.

After I'm done with this run I'm never using 1/8th steel pins again. Not worth the heartache.
 
KalEl said:
The worst thing for me is proud pins. I was an idiot and designed my first run of hawks with 9 1/8th stainless pins. Its a very asthetically pleasing pin design but I've just about given up on trying to get them completely flat. I could spend all day sanding one handle and still end up with the pins slightly proud. I do alot of my handle shaping with a scalloped Jflex belt with the platen removed but when I use this method I end up with the pins proud because there's no backing. Then I file them down and use a hard sanding block to try to remove scratches and bring them flush. This takes ages and after I'm done I usually see some slight unevenness in the handle and have to go back to the slack belt and fix it. Lather, rinse repeat. I spent 10 hours on one before I just said screw it and left the pins proud.

After I'm done with this run I'm never using 1/8th steel pins again. Not worth the heartache.
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I've had the best luck hand sanding with torn off strip of belt about 3x the pin width, after I rough flush the pin on the machine. I hold the strip tight between my fingers like a bowstring, and just drop onto the handle enough to put about 5-10° on each side of the belt, or enough to sand the entire pin head accounting for handle curve.

I also wanted to mention that I find that 220 works best for me. I prefer to use strips torn from 6x48 belts, because they tend to have a heavier/stiffer backing, which keeps the paper from stretching down in to the softer material around the pin. Once you get to higher grits, it isn't quite so bad.
 
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"God is in the details" (Mies vd Rohe)
And I believe the man was right.
I enjoy things that look good and taken care of in the details.
I can enjoy something that is made with love and care. it shows and gets character. What is becomes less important
 
Here's another one. Warp happens, but any knife worth selling should be straight. Can't tell you how many times I've picked up a knife off a table at a show only to see that the blade is warped. Not maybe a little, but WAY crooked.

Detail: straight means straight. It's a pain to get some blades straight, but there are several techniques to get it done.
 
Another one- if you are doing a full tang, the shoulders of both scales should line up with each other when you look at them on the knife. If you have bolsters, the bolster edges should line up with each other.

I do agree with Ian on the aesthetics and ergo issues.
 
In regards to warp has anyone ever tried using perforated aluminum plates in an oil quench to keep the blade straight?

Like take two long pieces of aluminum and mill long slots in them or drill tons of holes in them so they're totally perforated.
Then place them in your quench tank. Then when you quench you put the blade between the two plates so it cant warp. The holes in the aluminum would allow for fresh oil to reach the blade as the quench progresses.

Im sure this setup would need a ton of tweaking but does the concept check out?
 
I suspect that the cooling would be different in the areas in contact with the plates vs. the areas in contact with the oil. Differential cooling is a big part of what makes warp to begin with. I usually pull mine from the oil after it stops sizzling and straighten it hot before it fully hardens. You'll develop a feel for when it's going to bend vs. when it's not, and as it cools, you can tell when it's stopped being bendable. Hard to explain, not too hard to demonstrate.
 
Bob Katilus said:
Another one- if you are doing a full tang, the shoulders of both scales should line up with each other when you look at them on the knife. If you have bolsters, the bolster edges should line up with each other.

I do agree with Ian on the aesthetics and ergo issues.
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Easy way to do this is when the holes are drilled, pin the scales or bolsters together by themselves and shape on the grinder.
 
Jason Fry said:
I agree, Bob. You mentioned stray scratches. That's a great one, and a real killer. Nothing like getting a knife "finished" only to find a scratch that you missed.

Another F/F issue that's easy to forget: Gaps. Everything should be flat, and flat should leave no gaps. If you don't pay attention to flatness, then you don't clamp evenly, you get gaps. We know better, but the Devil is in the details.
Click to expand...

This is something I was struggling with when doing forged blades. Gaps ! I would think everything was good to go but I didn't pay attention to the details. Now I am over that hurdle (I think) and now its time to work on all my other flaws.
 
I can't count the number of times I have been handed a knife by someone asking for my opinion. The FIRST thing I always check is if the PLUNGE LINES ARE SYMMETRICAL and more often than not, they aren't. Something soooooo basic... it boggles my mind how frequently I come across it.
 
Rick Marchand said:
I can't count the number of times I have been handed a knife by someone asking for my opinion. The FIRST thing I always check is if the PLUNGE LINES ARE SYMMETRICAL and more often than not, they aren't. Something soooooo basic... it boggles my mind how frequently I come across it.
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I find that many I've seen have a lower quality grind on the person's off side (generally the left side of the blade when held pointing away/edge down), I do better grinding on the left side of the blade since I'm left handed, that ends up being my control hand, and the right is the pressure hand. I find that I have better luck if I finish a satisfactory plunge on my off side, then match the plunge and do any final grind height adjustments on my good side. I have finer control that way. Maybe once I have years under my belt, it won't really matter which side I grind on. I know it got that way eventually with my TIG welding.
 
Always strive to do your best in both the design and fit and finish department. That being said, if your output is low, realize that perfection is a long way off and don't let it discourage you. My fit and finish is nowhere near what I would like it to be but it is getting slowly better with each knife I make and shop time under my belt. Design on the other hand you can practice anywhere even simply in your head while doing other things. And contrary to popular belief, it has to be practice or cultivated as much as the actual building part if you want both aspects to keep up with each other.

Back to the original topic, my advice about details would be to spend as much time on the last 10% of the knife (the details part) as you spent on the other 90% of the built. I use to be so eager to actually finish a knife that I would rush the end part and was usually disappointed by the end result. It is hard at first but after you've done a few knives like this and see the better end result, it will become second nature and you will not even think twice about that spending that 4-5 hours making 3 different pommel nut to get it just right. ;) Of course I realize that this may not apply to every situation when for example, you are actually earning a living doing this. But I say try and do it as much as you practically can.
 
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