The Escort, does it need any changes? List of minor changes I am thinking about.

[Dirk]

Now that the Escort has been out for a while, I have had the chance to think about some improvements. In all honesty, I think it is darn close to spot on. I only have some minor changes I am thinking about. The first two on the list are the changes I am going to ask for in the next run. Number 3 and 4 are out of order. I am thinking very seriously about number 4. Numbers 3 5 and 6 are just thoughts. Looking for your opinions and ideas. Thanks!

1 - I am looking at reducing the size of the sharpening choil.

2 - Changing the radius of the finger notch on the non lock side to improve lock access. This would eliminate the offset that is on the current release.

3 - Have the lock relief moved to the inside to reduce hanging up on the pocket during draw. Not sure if this is needed on the Escort. It has been an issue on other models.

4 - Change blade color from black to stonewash.

5 - Change blade to hollow grind? I am not 100% sure about this. The examples I have had, have performed well and have had a really nice edge.

6 - Should it be a clip point instead? Maybe a second model?

 

[Cyrano]

Dirk,

I haven't yet handled the current version. Based on photos and personal preferences,

1 - I am looking at reducing the size of the sharpening choil.

It looks fine to me as-is. I like a big choil, because I use a mini belt sander (WorkSharp Ken Onion / Blade Grinding Attachment) for sharpening; the choil makes life much, much easier.

4 - Change blade color from black to stonewash.

Yes, please.

6 - Should it be a clip point instead? Maybe a second model?

How about a reverse tanto? I'm a Wharncliffe fan, and the reverse tanto might be a way to offer something Wharncliffe-like in this design.

 

[Dirk]

Thanks for the input. Reverse tanto? Personally, I am with you. I am a big fan of the wharncliffe, modified wharncliffe, reverse tanto or anything with a straight edge. I have a design already completed. The challenge is to convince Kizer another wharncliffe would be a good addition. I will definitely be talking to them about it.

 

[Cyrano]

... The challenge is to convince Kizer another wharncliffe would be a good addition ...

Of course, the proof of the pudding is: how well are existing Wharncliffe designs selling? I trust your Rogue is doing well.

Beyond that, there's the competitive landscape. Given how many knives are on the market these days, it seems to me the Wharncliffe is way under-represented -- which should offer opportunity for product differentiation.

On the other hand, that the Wharncliffe is under-represented begs the question: why is this the case? Have makers learned from experience that Wharncliffe designs don't often prove popular?

 

[Misanthropia]

1 - I am looking at reducing the size of the sharpening choil.

As Cyrano said, I never thought the sharpening choil was too large, but I also haven't handled it in person. As long as there is a sharpening choil, I think people will be happy.

2 - Changing the radius of the finger notch on the non lock side to improve lock access. This would eliminate the offset that is on the current release.

I think people will like this change as well. Difficult to access locks are always annoying. Again, not sure if that's really an issue with the Escort though

3 - Have the lock relief moved to the inside to reduce hanging up on the pocket during draw. Not sure if this is needed on the Escort. It has been an issue on other models.

This was a massive issue on the Kizer Kyre. Having the lock relief on the inside does look cleaner, which a lot of people like.

4 - Change blade color from black to stonewash.

Surprisingly, I kind of like the black finish. It contrasts nicely with the blasted handle. But yeah, I think people overwhelmingly prefer stonewashed finishes.

5 - Change blade to hollow grind? I am not 100% sure about this. The examples I have had, have performed well and have had a really nice edge.

Huge hollow grind fan here, and Kizer is one of the few production companies outside of the Big 3 that do them.

6 - Should it be a clip point instead? Maybe a second model?

That looks AWESOME. Maybe a second model though.

View attachment 653675

Kizer seems like a really accommodating company, if they are willing to make all of these changes, that's great. I feel like most of the YouTube videos I've seen of the Escort make it seem like the detent isn't particularly strong. Is this a complaint you've heard?

 

[Dirk]

The detent was brought to my attention at Blade this year. My production samples all had good detents. We aren't sure what happened. Kizer has assured me the issue will be taken care of in future runs for all models.

 

[Inazone]

I think the black blade looks nice on the Escort, as does the current shape. Don't feel strongly about the other prospective changes.

 

[matt009au]

Overall I'm really impressed with the escort mate. Made me go out and buy a Kizer which I didn't think I would do. My comments below:

1 Sharpening choil no problems for me, but I wouldn't complain if it was smaller.

2 Changing the presentation side for better lock access would be good. I have no issues with the early lockup mine has but may be an issue as the lock wears? Might also give better access to the groove for opening without flipping?

3 Lock relief is no issues for me.

4 Love the black blade coating.

5 Grind performs well for me so I don't mind one way or another.


6 Clip point looks awesome!

My other comments -
A - Is it possible to lose the decorated pivot? Doesn't fit with the rest of the knife and looks kinda cheap imo. If I could get a plain one from Kizer I would be ordering it right now.
B - the clip needs a little final bend at the tip. Current tip of the clip digs into my hand a bit. I also think the clip would look better without the holes drilled into it (the clip in the product images looked better - no holes and a bit wider in the centre), but, that's just personal opinion. Additionally, it doesn't seem to have great retention.
C - only an observation, but the stop pin is quite thin compared to some of my other similar knives. Hasn't been an issue thus far.

Matt

 

[Hackenslash]

Hi Dirk,
I'm a big fan of your Kizer knives, I have an Escort and a Rogue.

1. I have no problem with the sharpening choil. It seems appropriate for the knife

2. I tend to like knives with "easy" access to the lockbar from the presentation side, so long as it makes sense in the overall look of the knife. That being said, I've never had issues accessing the lockbar on my Escort, and I've carried it quite a bit: enough to complain about the screws all backing out. (A little blue Locktite and all is good).

3. I've never had issues with the lock relief on mine so if it ain't broke, why fix it?

4. I'd really like a stonewashed blade. I work in an office environment and a black blade suffers from "black gun syndrome". Plus, I think it would look really cool with a stonewashed or anodized handle. It would make the knife friendlier for sheeple.

5. I like the current high flat grind. It's worked well in every application.

6. OMG, go full Bowie and the knife will be incredible...but make it a second model...the Escort Hunter...or something!

Thanks so much for listening to the feedback from KnifeKnerds! I really appreciate the opportunity to share my preferences with you!

 

[richw]

I don't own this knife yet, but plan to.

1) it's fine, if you do reduce it, don't reduce it too much
2) yes
3) can't answer that one
4) offer it in both or don't change. the thing with and a lot of companies right now (including kizer) that make knives in the 150-300 bracket are all titanium handles stonewashed blades of s35vn/elmax/m390/etc...this is at least different in one way...
5) no no no no no no...the majority of kizers knives are hollow...one of the reasons i want this knife is its simplicity in design and that its flat....
6) outside of aesthetics is there a reason you want it to be clipped? this is a simple elegant design, i think making it a clip point alters that aesthetic. you have more "exotic" knives with them, leave one simple one. see how it sells.

btw, good on you for interacting with your customers especially on a production blade.

 

[wyatt10013]

personally dirk I love the looks of the clip point you mocked up. I have always been a sucker for a nice clip. I also think that a stonewash rather than black coating is a great idea.

 

[matt009au]

One more change would be to slot for torx on both sides of the pivot (or redesign the pivot). Dropped mine at work today. The impact seems to have loosened up the pivot so the blade rubs the liner. Impossible to tighten back up as the pivot just spins free.

 

[Dirk]

Good point. I like that idea for the Escort, no doubt.

 

[dkb45]

Lefty clip lefty clip lefty clip lefty clip

 

[Mesenzo]

One more change would be to slot for torx on both sides of the pivot (or redesign the pivot). Dropped mine at work today. The impact seems to have loosened up the pivot so the blade rubs the liner. Impossible to tighten back up as the pivot just spins free.

You really don't need torx on both sides...
The pivot axle has a D-shaped end that fits in a D-shaped opening in the front scale. That way the pivot side with no torx can not rotate. That is; when the "non-torx" side of the pivot is far enough inserted into the handle! To resolve your problem rotate the pivot screw with a torx screwdriver wile pushing in the other side (the non-torx side) of the pivot and sqeezing the handle scales. As soon as the D shaped pivot axle is in the right position it will snap into the D-shaped opening in the front scale and stop rotating. From there you can tighten the pivot screw easily.
So there is no need for a second torx screw...
I hope this clears things up. If not let me know and I will take some pics to illustrate the design.

 

[matt009au]

If that is the case mine is broken. Whole pivot just spins for me. Knife is unusable as it just scrapes the liner now. Can't be tightened, can't be loosened. Just spins.

You really don't need torx on both sides...
The pivot axle has a D-shaped end that fits in a D-shaped opening in the front scale. That way the pivot side with no torx can not rotate. That is; when the "non-torx" side of the pivot is far enough inserted into the handle! To resolve your problem rotate the pivot screw with a torx screwdriver wile pushing in the other side (the non-torx side) of the pivot and sqeezing the handle scales. As soon as the D shaped pivot axle is in the right position it will snap into the D-shaped opening in the front scale and stop rotating. From there you can tighten the pivot screw easily.
So there is no need for a second torx screw...
I hope this clears things up. If not let me know and I will take some pics to illustrate the design.

 

[Mesenzo]

It (the pivot) can not be broken because then the pivot halves would fall out of the scales...

 

[matt009au]

I see, guess I got a limited edition with a special pivot.

Edit: sent it back to Kizer who confirmed the pivot on mine was broken. They ended up having to drill out my pivot.

It (the pivot) can not be broken because then the pivot halves would fall out of the scales...

 

[Dirk]

OK, I disassembled my Escort to see if I could duplicate the spinning pivot issue.

First, the pivot is not a "D" pivot. When you take the pivot screw off, you see what looks like a "D" pivot, but it doesn't run the entire length of the pivot. It is only a notch that extends only about 1/8".

I was able to duplicate the spinning pivot. I removed the pivot screw and then reinstalled. I tightened as far as could and then the entire pivot assembly would spin and the blade developed lateral play. I have seen this happen with other folders and what seems to happen is the thread locking compound loosens just enough to let the pivot screw back out just a bit. Because the compound has filled all of the threads the entire length of the pivot it prevents the pivot screw from easily being tightened. The compound needs to be cleaned out or loosened to permit the pivot screw to be tightened correctly. As counter intuitive as this sounds, I have found this is a bigger issue with pivots that have tighter tolerances.

I would return it to Kizer for repair.

 

[Mesenzo]

OK, I disassembled my Escort to see if I could duplicate the spinning pivot issue.

First, the pivot is not a "D" pivot. When you take the pivot screw off, you see what looks like a "D" pivot, but it doesn't run the entire length of the pivot. It is only a notch that extends only about 1/8".

Sorry Dirk but the pivot is a D-shape pivot... For that the D shape does not have to extend over the full length of the pivot! The little notch at the end is the D shape part that fits in to the D shaped hole in the FRONT scale! This combination prevents the rotation of the counterpart of the pivot screw when tightening or loosening the pivot screw. I know there are knives that have the D shape over the entire length of the pivot and they rest in a D shape hole in the BACK scale. But this solution is actually better (no need to weaken the entire pivot and better support of the blade).
I had several customers with this "problem" when they tried to open their knives and did not support the counterpart of the pivot (by laying it on a rubber mat or similar). After a few twists of the pivot screw and because you put some pressure on the screw, you are pushing back the counterpart until it does no longer rests in the D shape. From that point on the counterpart starts to rotate. Especially when there is locktite on the screw.
I am 99.99% sure that what happened in this case is that because of the fall the D shape notch slipt out of the D shape hole (on the Escort it does not rest very far into the scale! It should be a little longer to provide a better hold). The fix: laying the knife flat on its back on a rubber mat or table and pushing down on the front scale and then start turning the torx screw slowly. When the D shape notch is in the right position to the d shape hole in the front scale it wil snap in again. And then it will be possible to tighten the screw a little further.
Trust me, been there done that many times...