The Escort, does it need any changes? List of minor changes I am thinking about.

Thanks Dirk, I appreciate the thorough response mate. Will touch base with the Kizer rep here in Australia.

Edit: on its way back from Kizer, they had to drill out the pivot and replace it in the end.


Dirk said:
OK, I disassembled my Escort to see if I could duplicate the spinning pivot issue.

First, the pivot is not a "D" pivot. When you take the pivot screw off, you see what looks like a "D" pivot, but it doesn't run the entire length of the pivot. It is only a notch that extends only about 1/8".

I was able to duplicate the spinning pivot. I removed the pivot screw and then reinstalled. I tightened as far as could and then the entire pivot assembly would spin and the blade developed lateral play. I have seen this happen with other folders and what seems to happen is the thread locking compound loosens just enough to let the pivot screw back out just a bit. Because the compound has filled all of the threads the entire length of the pivot it prevents the pivot screw from easily being tightened. The compound needs to be cleaned out or loosened to permit the pivot screw to be tightened correctly. As counter intuitive as this sounds, I have found this is a bigger issue with pivots that have tighter tolerances.

I would return it to Kizer for repair.
Click to expand...
 
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Mesenzo said:
Sorry Dirk but the pivot is a D-shape pivot... For that the D shape does not have to extend over the full length of the pivot! The little notch at the end is the D shape part that fits in to the D shaped hole in the FRONT scale! This combination prevents the rotation of the counterpart of the pivot screw when tightening or loosening the pivot screw. I know there are knives that have the D shape over the entire length of the pivot and they rest in a D shape hole in the BACK scale. But this solution is actually better (no need to weaken the entire pivot and better support of the blade).
I had several customers with this "problem" when they tried to open their knives and did not support the counterpart of the pivot (by laying it on a rubber mat or similar). After a few twists of the pivot screw and because you put some pressure on the screw, you are pushing back the counterpart until it does no longer rests in the D shape. From that point on the counterpart starts to rotate. Especially when there is locktite on the screw.
I am 99.99% sure that what happened in this case is that because of the fall the D shape notch slipt out of the D shape hole (on the Escort it does not rest very far into the scale! It should be a little longer to provide a better hold). The fix: laying the knife flat on its back on a rubber mat or table and pushing down on the front scale and then start turning the torx screw slowly. When the D shape notch is in the right position to the d shape hole in the front scale it wil snap in again. And then it will be possible to tighten the screw a little further.
Trust me, been there done that many times...
Click to expand...

I stand corrected. I looked again and you are 100% correct. I might need to get new prescription for my glasses. I didn't see it the first time. Thanks!
 
Thanks for the assistance Mesenzo. Method hasn't worked for me. Late here so will give it another shot tomorrow. Matt
Mesenzo said:
Sorry Dirk but the pivot is a D-shape pivot... For that the D shape does not have to extend over the full length of the pivot! The little notch at the end is the D shape part that fits in to the D shaped hole in the FRONT scale! This combination prevents the rotation of the counterpart of the pivot screw when tightening or loosening the pivot screw. I know there are knives that have the D shape over the entire length of the pivot and they rest in a D shape hole in the BACK scale. But this solution is actually better (no need to weaken the entire pivot and better support of the blade).
I had several customers with this "problem" when they tried to open their knives and did not support the counterpart of the pivot (by laying it on a rubber mat or similar). After a few twists of the pivot screw and because you put some pressure on the screw, you are pushing back the counterpart until it does no longer rests in the D shape. From that point on the counterpart starts to rotate. Especially when there is locktite on the screw.
I am 99.99% sure that what happened in this case is that because of the fall the D shape notch slipt out of the D shape hole (on the Escort it does not rest very far into the scale! It should be a little longer to provide a better hold). The fix: laying the knife flat on its back on a rubber mat or table and pushing down on the front scale and then start turning the torx screw slowly. When the D shape notch is in the right position to the d shape hole in the front scale it wil snap in again. And then it will be possible to tighten the screw a little further.
Trust me, been there done that many times...
Click to expand...
 
To go back on topic; it would be an improvement for the Escort to have the length of the pivot axle be a little longer (+/- 0.5 mm) so it rests further in the front scale (to prevent this kind of mishaps in the future).
 
I would vote for a more ergonomically friendly handle. With perhaps more contorting to accommodate the natural curves of the hand.

Best of luck to ya mate.
 
Mesenzo said:
To go back on topic; it would be an improvement for the Escort to have the length of the pivot axle be a little longer (+/- 0.5 mm) so it rests further in the front scale (to prevent this kind of mishaps in the future).
Click to expand...

I spoke to Kizer about this today. They are going to look into this issue for all models that use this pivot.
 
Hello,
Because of the problem that Matt009au mentioned, I thought I would take my knife apart and take some photos to show the pivot.

The knife with the top scale removed.


showing the pivot pin



I hope you find this useful.

Anthony
 
I really like the clip-point!
And, would like to see a strong-point tanto blade also.
rolf
 
Good pics, Thanks.

Tanto Escort, I agree. I am working on that. The first tanto concept was not as well received as the current blade profile. So, we went with the drop point. I am hoping they will go with all three blade profiles down the road.
 
Mesenzo said:
To go back on topic; it would be an improvement for the Escort to have the length of the pivot axle be a little longer (+/- 0.5 mm) so it rests further in the front scale (to prevent this kind of mishaps in the future).
Click to expand...

I checked the length of the pivot more accurately and found out that it actually can be 1.5 mm (= 0,059055118") longer! Right now the pivot only reaches 0.64 mm (= 0,02519685") into the D shape hole in the scale.... That really should be more to provide a decent hold!
 
Mesenzo said:
I checked the length of the pivot more accurately and found out that it actually can be 1.5 mm (= 0,059055118") longer! Right now the pivot only reaches 0.64 mm (= 0,02519685") into the D shape hole in the scale.... That really should be more to provide a decent hold!
Click to expand...

Good information! I have made Kizer aware. Thanks!
 
The tanto looks great!

Is a reverse-tanto (or other straight-edge design) still under consideration?
 
Got the Escort last week and like it, but question a couple design elements.
Could the lock arm be a bit shorter so the pivot is totally surrounded by the Ti handle rather than being milled clear through the hole.
As others have mentioned why is the stop pin so small?
Would like to have seen the pocket clip recessed into the handle a bit rather than sitting on top.
Great flipping knife though and fantastic closing action, rivals my best Reates and ZTs.
 
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