The Ethical Woodsman

[Rick Marchand]

This topic pops up every now and then on the boards. Sometimes it makes you stop and think.... and sometimes it's a thread killer. It can be a dangerous subject for passionate folks. Wilderness politics!!

We have to agree ahead of time, that most folks are not going to see eye-to-eye on many of these topics. That is a simple fact. You are probably not going to change anyone, so if you feel like your arguement to going nowhere, "back off" and just be confident in the fact that YOU don't need someone else's approval to justify your own actions.

If we keep it civil, we keep it in W&SS.... you know the routine.:thumbup:



Topic ideas...

-Leave no trace camping
-Harvesting from wild areas (game and vegitation)
-The Law of the Jungle (Park laws/bylaws/restrictions)
-Social interaction on the trail

Just start talking about something on your mind and whatever strikes a nerve, we'll fly with it.


Rick

 

[EMT_Lee]

Do you pack-out used toilet paper? Or, do you just bury it?

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Fortunately my current stomping ground is pretty devoid of people, so trail interactions aren't something I have to worry about.

While I certainly leave traces of where I've been, it's only footprints, or chopping marks on DEAD materials (usually for tinder/wood gathering), or maybe clipping the odd bit of briar that's obstructing an otherwise clear path. When I burn a fire I try to keep it off of the ground so I don't kill the things living in that spot--a burn spot can stay sterile of flora for quite a long while. With all of the stumps and stones around I'm usually able to just build my fire on top of one of those instead. :thumbup:

 

[Joezilla]

I remember when I was camping with some forumites on a trip, and they decided to pour out a bunch of cans into the fire pit. I asked "Ya'll aren't going to pack it out?". They stated "Nah, we'll use it for a foraging class later." Really, 20 cans worth? There was plenty of trash there already, debris shelter skeletons, and god knows what else under the snow. That taught me to always take down my shelters in a wild area, and pack out everything I had. If I brought buddies or "students" to this area to practice skills, both the debris and the huts would detract from the overall feel of being in the woods. It would be different if the shelter was some huge sod hut that would be around for a few years, but the skeletons just look trashy.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Besides, I bet tearing them down is fun!

 

[IA Woodsman]

A lot of people think LNT is a new concept. The Boy Scouts have been teaching the principals for a long time. But, even before BSA was doing it, the military was teaching Escape and Evasion skills. E&E is the ultimate in LNT.

 

[Rick Marchand]

An issue was brought up in another thread about harvesting vegitation from a restricted area.

My views on this subject are both simple and complex (if that makes any sense). I believe that responsible harvesting and caretaking are more important than manmade laws. I would rather see a dedicated woodsman "illegally" harvesting some fatwood from a local park than my nieghbor "lawfully" removing trees from his property to put in a new swimming pool.

Legality and ethics can be two different animals at times. I think of segragation laws of the past, 2nd ammendment rights preservation and a multitude of other acts/laws/bylaws/restrictions that are set forth by people who "know whats best for us." They just passed a "no cell phone" law around these parts... unless you have a hands-free system, you are subject to a fine for talking on your phone while driving. Why don't they have a no eating/drinking/putting on lipstick/fiddling with your radio law?
Who decides?

Rick

 

[Walkabout]

I try to leave minimal trace, but I know that I'm not as disciplined in that regard as I could be. We pack out used toilet paper (it's not as difficult or gross as it sounds if you have a system), and I use previous fire sites if there is one. If there's garbage from earlier campers, I'll pack that out.

Another wilderness etiquette issue in my view is music... you can hear loud music even across a small lake in a remote area. I hate listening to someone else's music even at the best of times, but in the bush it seems like a huge invasion of my peace.

 

[wintermute]

Regarding LNT, what really gets my goat, is that on hikes other hikers always assume that whoever brings kids (like me and my wife) are the ones that left the trail side mess. Both my girls are well versed in LNT and my six year old has a sick, overdeveloped love for cleaning and we often pack out the crap that others have left behind.

 

[mymindisamob]

Another wilderness etiquette issue in my view is music... you can hear loud music even across a small lake in a remote area. I hate listening to someone else's music even at the best of times, but in the bush it seems like a huge invasion of my peace.

You found my sore spot. I don't want to hear anybody elses music in town, let alone out in the woods/bush/desert/etc.. Even if it is my favorite band or song, keep it down or better yet, off. Don't get me wrong, I couldn't do without music, but why should everyone else have to hear it?

 

[mymindisamob]

Regarding LNT, what really gets my goat, is that on hikes other hikers always assume that whoever brings kids (like me and my wife) are the ones that left the trail side mess. Both my girls are well versed in LNT and my six year old has a sick, overdeveloped love for cleaning and we often pack out the crap that others have left behind.

Good point. I've experienced this ignorance from others as well.

 

[hollowdweller]

I try not to cut stuff where people can see it.

If there is some cool feature in the woods I try not to camp too near it because I'm afraid it will inhibit the other person from coming and viewing it.

If I was going to harvest something wild I'd try to do it in a way you can't see that I have.:thumbup:

 

[C_Kyle]

An issue was brought up in another thread about harvesting vegitation from a restricted area.

This, like a lot of laws, seem to defy common sense. The problem, though, is that a lack of common sense by a bunch of people is what has caused the creation of the law in the first place.

I don't see anything wrong with harvesting stuff like fatwood or naturally felled timber from protected land. Common sense says there isn't anything wrong with cutting a few limbs from that dead cedar tree for walking sticks or getting some fatwood from that pine stump. But, someone will take it too far, rolling though the protected land with a tractor to get a bunch of dead timber, destroying habitat in the process.

I think we need these ridiculous rules to keep the people who would go overboard from doing all sorts of damage. It's sad, but the planet isn't the wide open space it once was; there's too many people imposing their idiocy on everything in sight.

 

[Snow]

Unfortunately, common sense isn't all that common. Just the same, I'd like to think I possess some (some of you may disagree), and I tend to do what feels like the right thing.

No junking up a campsite.

Keep quiet and respectful of others.

Don't chop down trees just to show off my new Busse Bonecruncher 2000.

That sort of thing.

 

[mtwarden]

I think we need these ridiculous rules to keep the people who would go overboard from doing all sorts of damage. It's sad, but the planet isn't the wide open space it once was; there's too many people imposing their idiocy on everything in sight.

sad, but very true

the rule set varies greatly depending on where your tromping about- national parks tend to have pretty rigid rules on what can be picked up, harvested and taken- national forests, BLM- less so. I tend to follow the rules where ever I go, might not agree with them all, but if I really don't like the rules (hasn't happened yet)- I'll go somewhere else.

when practicing skills- whether fire building, snaring, shelter building, etc- I make it point to erase my mark as best I can- I'd expect the same from someone else

 

[roar-k]

Lazy thru hikers that do not go off the trail to do their business. I was on a section of the AT in November last year and I found around a dozen piles of crap a few feet away from the trail. And about 20% of them were near water. Before you ask, yes the piles were human excrement.

I am a firm believer of get as far away from the trail as possible to do your business and make sure it will not run into water. I will dig a small hole for it and I gladly carry the extra weight of a small trowel for this reason.

I burn my used TP in the hole I dig and after watching it burn completely will I then fill it back in. My grandfather and godfather both taught me to do this so I always have.

If I decide I need a fire I will always try to find an old fire pit instead of making a new one. And many of the times I find an old one I will see partly burnt trash and/or soup cans that the last person(s) left behind. I for one cannot stand people that do that. I am starting to pack out more than I packed in due to picking up other's garbage.

Back to the thru hikers. Does it really hurt to take a bandanna or something and give yourself a wash occasionally? Take a minute out of your day and just do a light scrub down. You might find people are more inclined to speak/share with you if they are not suffocating from the smell. And to your dismay you may actually feel better.

 

[RescueRiley]

I cart out all my trash, and whatever extra I can fit...
I cut only dead wood to use for both fire and shelters.and any other projects
in the event I do cut live wood (very rare it is primarily from invasive non native species

I do harvest plants for food corage..luckily most of these are weed like in nature and will grow back, or can be copiced in a way that the will return.

I harvest animals as well but in accordance with the game laws...

I try to be as considerate of the environment as I can, I try to keep my fires small, and generally used pre made fire pits that others have left behind. I always leave my camsite trace free (in the event that I made them) or better than I left them if they where premade.

As far as people go I always offer a warm hello to folks on the trail, though sometimes it is not returned, and am happy to engage in conversation with any who care to partake..

if an individual happens upon my camp the are always invited to the fire for a hot beverage and some food. If they get ornery however the get put on on the spit and offered t the next group (JK)

 

[dextersp1]

All are good ideas - and become more relevant the the use of the area increases.

-Leave no trace camping :thumbup:

-Harvesting from wild areas (game and vegitation) - game - follow bagging limits; vegetation - leave no trace :thumbup:

-The Law of the Jungle (Park laws/bylaws/restrictions) :thumbup:

-Social interaction on the trail - friendliness is good :thumbup:

 

[Mentor]

I know of a beautiful camp site on a pine-covered spit of land jutting out into a lake in Algonquin Park. The ground is covered in a carpet of pine needles, and there is little in the way of dead standing or fallen wood within, say, 15 m of the fire pit. Over the years, anything that looked like it was dead and combustible gradually found its way into somebody's camp fire. Which is understandable. However, The living trees near the fire pit also show the scars of dozens of jackasses who successively displayed their wisdom by attempting to chop down a healthy pine with a hatchet rather than walk the 15m to forage for dead wood. Similarly, every tree limb within swinging distance has been denuded. One more decade of such behaviour, and it will no longer be a beautiful camp site.

I do not understand the mentality of those who would do this. The same goes for those who would leave garbage lying around or chuck cans in the lake. It seems like this should be a matter of common sense.

One of my greatest 'WTF?!' moments came this past summer, when I was wandering through the Singhampton Caves and noticed that some climbers had drilled metal anchors into the wall of one of the largest caves, and proceeded to shred 30+ ft. worth of ancient lichen and ferns during their ascent. Madness.

Compared to these sorts of things, harvesting a bit of fatwood in a responsible manner is nothing.

I can't claim that I always practice 100% leave no trace camping, but I do take steps to ensure that I do not leave an unnecessary impact on the wilderness I am privileged to enjoy. Cutting green wood is something I try to avoid, especially on public land, and I always carry a garbage bag to pack out trail litter.

If I look through my photos from past outings, it is clear that my eye is drawn to wilderness scenes that include little evidence of human activity - this being the case, it stands to reason that I should conduct myself in the wilderness so as not to disrupt the scene for others.

More thoughts on wilderness ethics to come ...

All the best,

- Mike

 

[mdauben]

-Leave no trace camping

I was introduced to the wilderness in a somewhat old-fashioned, wood lore sort of way. Later I became really involved with the LNT concept and was probably a bit anal about it. Now I think I strike something of a balance, doing low/no impact camping in areas of high traffic or fragile ecosystems, but being more relaxed in areas that can better support a bit of gentle bushcraft.

-Harvesting from wild areas (game and vegitation)

In areas where its responsible to do so, I have no problem with this but obviously it simply isn't responsible to do so everywhere these days.

-The Law of the Jungle (Park laws/bylaws/restrictions)

I admit to ignoring inconvenient laws or restrictions where I feel it is reasonable to do so but it is a deliberate decision made on a case by case basis. I don't make a habit of flaunting the rules indescriminatly.

-Social interaction on the trail

I generally limit my social interaction to a simple greeing in passing, or occasionally passing on useful info (how far to the next spring, trail conditions, etc.). I don't go to the woods to socialize, I go to be alone with nature. If I want company I'll bring a friend, I don't have any desire to spend my time with chance met strangers.

I hate listening to someone else's music even at the best of times, but in the bush it seems like a huge invasion of my peace.

I agree 100% there! I am annoyed by inconsiderate people who disturb the peace in developed campgrounds. In the wilderness it becomes totally unacceptable.