The Famous Tom Krein Regrind.

[gunmike1]

As I said, I'm just trying to learn like everyone else.

Fair enough.

gunmike, I've never even given an opinion in this thread.

I think the quoting you are doing is making your opinion apparent, which is fine. I think in the past you already made your opinions clear, but like you mentioned those threads weren't the most pleasant experiences for most involved. A lot of times you can find a quote that expresses your opinion much better than you can by just pounding out a stream of consciousness thought on the keyboard. It is actually a very good idea for a rambling type like myself.

Sorry if it came off like that, certainly wasn't my intention. I actually admire Tom's regrinds.
I didn't take it as you were.

In retrospect it looks like you were just taking me to task for calling edges over .010" overbuilt (or more like questioning that statement and my possibly contradicting myself when I mentioned if you scrape or pry that a regrind isn't for you), which basically is saying every factory knife has an overbuilt edge. For most of my EDC cutting the regrinds handle the cuts without a hitch and theydo the VAST majority of my cutting. Thus for most of MY needs most every factory knife has an overbuilt edge IMO. For tougher cuts I use either a Military or a Manix with rebevelled edges, either of which is generally found in one of my pockets at all times along with a Krein regrind. I still don't pry or scrape with any of my knives, even the thicker ones, so a really thick edge just isn't needed in my case. As I said previously, if you do that type of stuff with your knife then a Krein grind definately is not for you, or even a lot of factory knives for that matter. Obviously STR does some hard (but not abusive) cutting that is too much for really thin edges, while on the other hand Yablanowitz has reported good results and durability cutting up lots of drywall with a .010" ZDP Endura regrind. It all depends on what you cut and how you cut it, but for light to medium EDC cutting and precision cutting a Krein grind is a great thing in my experience.

Mike

 

[tgiannes]

here are some pics of my hd-7 that tom did, hope you dont mind the strider.

Enjoy

 

[Thomas W]

I think the quoting you are doing is making your opinion apparent, which is fine. I think in the past you already made your opinions clear...

As you, I have made my opinions clear, yes, but it should be noted that those posts stemmed from the perspective and experience of one who is familiar with volume production. Now my personal viewpoint and preferences can vary greatly from my day job.

In retrospect it looks like you were just taking me to task...

Taking you to task may be a bit overstated, sorry if I made you feel that way.

For most of my EDC cutting the regrinds handle the cuts without a hitch and theydo the VAST majority of my cutting. Thus for most of MY needs most every factory knife has an overbuilt edge IMO. For tougher cuts I use either a Military or a Manix with rebevelled edges, either of which is generally found in one of my pockets at all times along with a Krein regrind. I still don't pry or scrape with any of my knives, even the thicker ones, so a really thick edge just isn't needed in my case. As I said previously, if you do that type of stuff with your knife then a Krein grind definately is not for you, or even a lot of factory knives for that matter.

I appreciate the feedback, honesty, and your real world experiences with re-grinds.

IMO, it's just really important that we all understand when looking to invest into a mod or makeover like a regrind, that there can be both risks and gains in doing so.

As you noted in this quote. Knife Geek and his friend also had varying results.

Obviously STR does some hard (but not abusive) cutting that is too much for really thin edges, while on the other hand Yablanowitz has reported good results and durability cutting up lots of drywall with a .010" ZDP Endura regrind.

It all depends on what you cut and how you cut it

Agreed.

for light to medium EDC cutting and precision cutting a Krein grind is a great thing...

I believe this to be true as well.

 

[Thomas W]

I did want to add, that like STR, I'm not really looking to argue or offend anyone with my words. Really just trying to show all sides of the conversation.

What Tom does is really fantastic, and the performance benefits from a regrind are there, no doubt about it. Esthetically, I think it looks hot as well.

I just thought it would be worth mentioning that not everyone can jump into a Lotus Esprit V8 and go 0-60 in 4.4 seconds without consequences. Taking those corners at a high rate of speed can also be challenging. Everyone's mileage is going to vary.

I'm also unsure where your warranty will stand when you come rolling in with a blown clutch.

 

[Morrow]

I did want to add, that like STR, I'm not really looking to argue or offend anyone with my words. Really just trying to show all sides of the conversation.

What Tom does is really fantastic, and the performance benefits from a regrind are there, no doubt about it. Esthetically, I think it looks hot as well.

I just thought it would be worth mentioning that not everyone can jump into a Lotus Esprit V8 and go 0-60 in 4.4 seconds without consequences. Taking those corners at a high rate of speed can also be challenging. Everyone's mileage is going to vary.

I'm also unsure where your warranty will stand when you come rolling in with a blown clutch.

Very good points. I think it is almost a certainty a regrind would void the warranty should any blade damage occur. I think this thread does a good job of showing both sides as you said. Having as much information (pros and cons) of a regrind is important when sending a $300 knife off to be modified.
I would hate for an uninformed person to send a costly knife off for a regrind only to break or damage the blade using for a task it was no longer suited.

 

[Tom Krein]

Thought I would throw my 2 cents in...

First a regrind is NOT for everyone. I think that has been covered.

Second for those knife nuts who know how they use a knife and want a "precision" cutter, there really is nothing else out there that will cut like one of these will. I usually have more than one knife on my person, one for heavy cutting and one for precision cutting....

Third, a regrind DOES void the guarantee! I have never said that it wouldn't. This is something for those out there that want a high performance cutter.


Thomas W, send me a blade and I will regrind it for you at no charge! Then you can give one a "test drive"... give me a call. How can you beat that?


Tom

479-233-0508

 

[Morrow]

Thought I would throw my 2 cents in...

First a regrind is NOT for everyone. I think that has been covered.

Second for those knife nuts who know how they use a knife and want a "precision" cutter, there really is nothing else out there that will cut like one of these will. I usually have more than one knife on my person, one for heavy cutting and one for precision cutting....

Third, a regrind DOES void the guarantee! I have never said that it wouldn't. This is something for those out there that want a high performance cutter.


Thomas W, send me a blade and I will regrind it for you at no charge! Then you can give one a "test drive"... give me a call. How can you beat that?


Tom

479-233-0508

Good stuff Tom. Thanks.

 

[gunmike1]

Thought I would throw my 2 cents in...

First a regrind is NOT for everyone. I think that has been covered.

Second for those knife nuts who know how they use a knife and want a "precision" cutter, there really is nothing else out there that will cut like one of these will. I usually have more than one knife on my person, one for heavy cutting and one for precision cutting....

Third, a regrind DOES void the guarantee! I have never said that it wouldn't. This is something for those out there that want a high performance cutter.


Thomas W, send me a blade and I will regrind it for you at no charge! Then you can give one a "test drive"... give me a call. How can you beat that?


Tom

479-233-0508

I think that pretty much covers it. Thanks again for all of the cutting fun I've been having from your regrinds and especially the Ultimate Caper.

Mike

 

[Dawkind]

Gotta show mine off....the Colbalt folder has been my edc for about 6 months now.

Boye Colbalt regrind along with an early 440C Dendretic Boye, well used:

The 440C folder after Tom's magic....clipped, swedged and all:

By the way, Thomas W, have you made that call yet?!?

 

[Lucky Bob]

Gotta show mine off....the Colbalt folder has been my edc for about 6 months now.

Boye Colbalt regrind along with an early 440C Dendretic Boye, well used:

The 440C folder after Tom's magic....clipped, swedged and all:

By the way, Thomas W, have you made that call yet?!?

Slightly OT, but what do you think of Boye's denditic cobalt? The science, as I understand it, behind it is pretty nifty.

 

[Hard H2O]

Slightly OT, but what do you think of Boye's denditic cobalt? The science, as I understand it, behind it is pretty nifty.

There is a guy on the British Blades forum selling some 440C investment cast blades and knives. Pretty neat. He gives a lot of credit to Boye.

I have designed a few castings but mine were cast aluminum for pneumatic cylinder cases. That is the coolest process I have used for a part.

 

[Morrow]

Does any of these blades have a Krein regrind?

 

[Dawkind]

Slightly OT, but what do you think of Boye's denditic cobalt? The science, as I understand it, behind it is pretty nifty.

I think it superb.........that knife has no carbon-bearing parts or pieces......Zytel, colbalt and 304 stainless.

Completely non-magnetic and 100% corrosion-proof. The colbalt takes a great edge and even after extended use seems to remain sharper than most any steels.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

The non knife people will cut with excessive force, sometimes including twisting the blade. This, if done to thinned profile high hardness blade can result in edge deformation.

The knife knuts will be careful (most of the time) with how it's being used, thus it'll last long.

Example: cutting food. People sometimes borrow my SAK and cut the bread directly on top of ceramic plate .. can you imagine? If I do the same, I'll lift off the bread or don't cut to the bottom, but rotate the bread to cut from the other side. That's the differences on how it's being used..

Based on the differences, I think thinning the profile to make a great cutter is best, for us, but worst option for general non-knife people .. It's a shame I live so far away, otherwise, I can enjoy the passaround to check myself ..

 

[Vivi]

Chris sums it up well. If you pay attention to how you cut, there is little risk of damage. I've taken knives of various steels down to edges between 5 and 8 degrees per side, and have yet to encounter a durability issue short of getting slight bends in the edge batoning a blade through knotted wood. My EDC, a S30V UKPK reground to 8-12 deg per side, can whittle through knotted wood without deforming at the edge. It cuts thick cardboard and plastics every day. Wonderful cutting ability.

I can see why production knife companies do things the way they do, but what I don't understand is why people who know enough about knives to buy a Kershaw or Spyderco and come here to talk about blade steels never even give a re-grind a chance. I've even gotten knives in trades that had thicker than factory edges on them. I've started pass arounds here to expose more people to how a properly ground knife can cut.

 

[db]

I missed this thread before. I kind of agree with both sides. I do thin my knives alot, both the edge angle; no stinken micro bevels, and the blade grind its self. They do cut great and will take damage much easier. As I like to use my knives and do the thinning myself it doesn't matter to me that I often damage the edges with chips and rolling. And yes I do chip and roll the edge often. LOL I'll even cut a wire tie on a kids toy. I am a little surprised we don't see some more reports like STR's on damaging real thin edges. I am going to have to get a knife to Tom one of these days. I do like the look of his hollow grinds. Note I have used and compared his grinds to my own and they are very simular in performance.

 

[Dawkind]

Here's another from Tom..........this thing is AWESOME! I've been edc'ing it since I got it back last month and sharp doesn't begin to describe how it cuts.


Early Spyderco 'Police' model with a to-the-spine flat-grind and sharpened clip....

 

[Lycosa]

Rrrrrrrrrrocket!!!

 

[Vivi]

These questions are not meant to be critical, or to give offense, but they've been in the back of my mind for awhile with respect to Tom's grinds:

The blade on the Sebenza pictured has had quite a bit of metal removed and is now so thin, that although I'm sure it's scary sharp and will slice like the dickens, how well will it actually hold up to anything more heavy-duty than shaving (something I prefer to do with a razor), slicing vegetables or cutting paper?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SFG9-6Bmp0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW8bc7W3Qik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMpS-pKQlzI

Actually truth be told I ruined one I did for myself whittling with it by making the mistake of force cutting it through a knot which resulted in a drastically deformed edge that chipped out the next time I cut with it.

Well I took a video of me cutting through knots on seasoned wood with he UKPK, but I wasn't even in the frame while I was cutting. I'll shoot another one at some point.

A Byrd Meadowlark I had reground to .005" and sharpened flat to the stone chipped when I manhandled it on purpose through a 1 gallon Gatorade bottle (thick plastic with curves in it for reinforcement, this is the stupid cutting I was talking about), and that was to be expected. It did sharpen out in just a minute or two, though. I can go right through a standard soda bottle (much thinner plastic than the Gatorade bottle I mentioned) without issues with that Meadowlark, or any other regrind I have without any significant damage, but again I cut straight.

Nearly messed up this video too. Tried to shoot one and I messed something up with the camera, so in this one I had such a small piece to work with i was difficult to get a good grip and cut it. In the first one the thick base was fracturing as much as it was being cut. No edge damage though. I can go get a gatorade bottle if need be. Either way I wasn't being gentle or careful at all here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9BdoNMZyyA

 

[db]

Good job on the videos. For me the things that I can recall damageing my thinned knives are mainly plastics. Zip ties, PVC pipe, packing straps, and so on. Now I've deburred metel pieces and even cut wire ties without damage. I beleive that how you cut plays a big part in how or what type of damage you get. However, I really beleive the thinner ground knives will take damage easier than a thicker grind. By how much is a hard call even with all the backyard testing people report.