The FK, demand and what could it's future be?

JustinFournier

JustinFournier

Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
4,971
So this crazy sale today has only reaffirmed my belief that the demand for the Field knife will not even come close to being satiated by the remaining sales and pre-order list before Nathan retires the model next year.

So looking around the market, trying to find something I do not have that is similar enough to make a direct comparison, but different enough to warrant the purchase of for comparison/companion sake, there is nothing I have found in the same price range or even close that looks like it could compare favorably against is. Disclaimer, I made this post declaring the FK my favorite mid sized knife of all time soooo I might be a TAD bias.

The FK being the excellent value it is in the mid $200s compares well against so many models that are $100~ more expensive than it range that it makes them look... maybe like the cost is tied up in parts of the knife that are more about looks than about function.

What do you guys think? Is the FK priced below market value? I would say it is easily a $325 knife. Would having the price being higher would have changed the current demand?

I also think it is way too great of a design just to be filed away into the history books. To me such a usable, destined to be classic design like this, that is such a success could even be sold to a larger manufacturer who could carry on the production of it. Like Lorien, Nathan and Jo could have this thing made by one of the large manufactures as a collaboration. I have seen way inferior designs out there done in the same fashion.

Or am I out to lunch here?

I guess what it comes down to, despite my efforts to leave some FKs for other people by finding an alternative, I think I will have to shut the proxy service down on the FK and pick up a couple more for myself, my future children, and grandchildren. Maybe their children too.

Edit: Removed reference to secondary market value that seems to be triggering people.
 
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So, you're asking what's a proper price to flip em for? Or what?
 
AntDog said:
So, you're asking what's a proper price to flip em for? Or what?
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I think I was pretty clear what I am asking. If you can't read the whole post I understand so I will try to summarize for the too long didn't read crowd.

I'm not into acrobatics, but I wonder if pricing them below market value has created such a demand, that it simply can't be met. So there are going to be lots of comments you see on the previous sales of people disappointed they won't or can't get one. Even though there was a pre-order sale thread up for weeks people still seem to have trouble getting one.

There is currently no auction or secondary market system available like in many other models where the market self corrects. You know, where someone could pay more if they value it more. As no perfect sales model exists, and the current one is not even close to meeting demand it costs CPK customers, and potentially has a negative impact on the future of the brand. I don't think it's good people go away mad they cannot get one.

I don't think the pattern deserves to die here, but I understand Nathan gets bored of making them and wants to move on. It's only Nathan and Jo, so output is naturally going to stay limited.

So what is the solution? Increase price? Sell the design to another manufacturer who can continue it?

Is that a little more clear?
 
I think the FK is priced extremely well. The closest thing i would compare it to is a Mid Tech? (production) Fiddleback Forge Bushfinger but would prefer the FK 11/10 times.
 
JustinFournier said:
I think I was pretty clear what I am asking. If you can't read the whole post I understand so I will try to summarize for the too long didn't read crowd.

I'm not into acrobatics, but I wonder if pricing them below market value has created such a demand, that it simply can't be met. So there are going to be lots of comments you see on the previous sales of people disappointed they won't or can't get one. Even though there was a pre-order sale thread up for weeks people still seem to have trouble getting one.

There is currently no auction or secondary market system available like in many other models where the market self corrects. You know, where someone could pay more if they value it more. As no perfect sales model exists, and the current one is not even close to meeting demand it costs CPK customers, and potentially has a negative impact on the future of the brand. I don't think it's good people go away mad they cannot get one.

I don't think the pattern deserves to die here, but I understand Nathan gets bored of making them and wants to move on. It's only Nathan and Jo, so output is naturally going to stay limited.

So what is the solution? Increase price? Sell the design to another manufacturer who can continue it?

Is that a little more clear?
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Somewhat.

I think the correct answer would be whatever Nathan Carothers chooses to do.

Did that hit the nail right on the head, or pretty close to it?
 
ExtraBaconPlease said:
I think the FK is priced extremely well. The closest thing i would compare it to is a Mid Tech? (production) Fiddleback Forge Bushfinger but would prefer the FK 11/10 times.
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I think it's too cheap. Maybe another $50 or so on it and across the line-up would help put another body in the CPK shop, calm demand a little bit too and leave more happy customers? Perhaps drumming up all the demand to build the brand is exactly what Nathan wanted.

I just hate to see the comments like "Well this brand isn't for me" or "keyboard kung-fu shouldn't be necessary to get a knife". Originally Nathan figured demand would calm and then people would have a much easier time getting one, but with the announcement of the FK retirement, seems that is simply not the case. I don't want to see people bowing out of the brand. I also see some of the same faces all the time, but they never make the cut. Almost every sale I proxy for someone but there is only so much I can do. I know exclusivity can help generate demand, so maybe I am being too concerned about the people going without.

AntDog said:
Somewhat.

I think the correct answer would be whatever Nathan Carothers chooses to do.

Did that hit the nail right on the head, or pretty close to it?
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Yeah, you hit the nail right on the head. :thumbup:
 
I also agree they are too cheap. When i said "priced extremely well", i meant too cheap.

The FK is my favourite knife...ever.
 
I think it's great that their not overpriced, seems like some knife makers think everybody's a Rockefeller! I'm glad I snagged one, and I got in on the preorder list. I got one in natural micarta and was thinking about getting one in G10. How do you guys like the G10? I might just go with black micarta for the second one. :confused:
 
gusbuster said:
I think it's great that their not overpriced, seems like some knife makers think everybody's a Rockefeller! I'm glad I snagged one, and I got in on the preorder list. I got one in natural micarta and was thinking about getting one in G10. How do you guys like the G10? I might just go with black micarta for the second one. :confused:
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Absolutely love the G10. Both Forest Green and Black are dead sexy.
 
JustinFournier said:
Yeah, you hit the nail right on the head. :thumbup:
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Very good, sir. I personally don't think the man needs any help deciding how to run his own business. To imply that he does so seems to me tantamount to insulting.

I'll leave you to it. :thumbup:
 
JustinFournier said:
I guess what it comes down to, despite my efforts to leave some FKs for other people by finding an alternative, I think I will have to shut the proxy service down on the FK and pick up a couple more for myself, my future children, and grandchildren. Maybe their children too.
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Why do you run a proxy service? Why can't those people try and get the knives for themselves? And do you have a magic trick for getting in the top 10 at the sales??

I agree that they would still sell at $350, but I don't think that would have a major impact on the purchasing by fans and collectors, like yourself. The Friday sales would still be mayhem, and there would still be a load of disappointed folks. Then the resale/flipping price would go up so high as to price most people out of a CPK.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Not trying to throw salt on an open wound here, but rather spread some hope. Friday was the first time I tried one of the auctions and yes I won, I was #9 !! I did nothing special, I was at my computer at about 2:55, I went to the for sale section and started hitting F5, as soon as I saw the post appear at approx 3:00 give or take a couple seconds I entered a few "yyyyyyy's" and low and behold I won. So I suggest if you want a CPK just be patient and prepared a few minutes before the auction and remember you can't win if you don't try. Look on the bright side if you don't win an auction you have something to look forward to next week. This format also gives you the added bonus of an adrenaline rush, win or loose, that you don't get when clicking the "buy now" button on a website. That being said the next couple weeks will be slow ones waiting the arrival of my new FK.
 
I've run my own business with the help of my beautiful bride, (12 years, today!) and have gone through both growing and shrinking pains
I don't like either, but I've learned why
There's an old adage that always pops into my mind when temptation arises; 'Keep it small, keep it all'

Nathan's desire in this endeavor, generally speaking, is to provide the right knife at the right price. We've discussed pricing, and he sells his knives for what he thinks they're worth. His words

In the eye of a manufacturer, price doesn't always necessarily rise with demand. Price rises with costs. If it rises with demand, you now have an unsustainable model and are creating problems for yourself or someone else down the road, (Wells Fargo comes to mind)

It's not CPK's job to determine an aftermarket price or to determine anything but- what to make, when to make it and how much it needs to be sold for in order to cover costs and generate enough profit to keep food on the table, and maybe put a little extra aside for the kid's education

That's the best that any small business can hope for

There are a host of other things related to growth that I don't think have much to do with the op, suffice it to say that there will be no moves with CPK that will diminish the quality of the final product

With regard to design, I have absolutely no control over what happens to them. My designs for CPK are the sole property of CPK, (this is about as close to a contract that we have, lol!). If a design of mine is sold by CPK to some other outfit, good for them! I would expect a sixpack, however:thumbup:
 
AdamZC said:
Why do you run a proxy service? Why can't those people try and get the knives for themselves? And do you have a magic trick for getting in the top 10 at the sales??

I agree that they would still sell at $350, but I don't think that would have a major impact on the purchasing by fans and collectors, like yourself. The Friday sales would still be mayhem, and there would still be a load of disappointed folks. Then the resale/flipping price would go up so high as to price most people out of a CPK.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I help people get one who are not fast enough to get in on the Friday sale, or have to be at work or something generally speaking when they are forum regulars or forum friends.

There is not a flipping problem with the FK that I have ever seen. They seem to rarely come into the secondary market. To me that is ideal, and I realize every one who wants one is not going to get one, but just trying to do what I can do. Seems almost everyone who gets one keeps it.
 
$200 ish is about right. I think the Survive knives are in the same price range.
 
Lorien said:
I've run my own business with the help of my beautiful bride, (12 years, today!) and have gone through both growing and shrinking pains
I don't like either, but I've learned why
There's an old adage that always pops into my mind when temptation arises; 'Keep it small, keep it all'

Nathan's desire in this endeavor, generally speaking, is to provide the right knife at the right price. We've discussed pricing, and he sells his knives for what he thinks they're worth. His words

In the eye of a manufacturer, price doesn't always necessarily rise with demand. Price rises with costs. If it rises with demand, you now have an unsustainable model and are creating problems for yourself or someone else down the road, (Wells Fargo comes to mind)

It's not CPK's job to determine an aftermarket price or to determine anything but- what to make, when to make it and how much it needs to be sold for in order to cover costs and generate enough profit to keep food on the table, and maybe put a little extra aside for the kid's education

That's the best that any small business can hope for

There are a host of other things related to growth that I don't think have much to do with the op, suffice it to say that there will be no moves with CPK that will diminish the quality of the final product

With regard to design, I have absolutely no control over what happens to them. My designs for CPK are the sole property of CPK, (this is about as close to a contract that we have, lol!). If a design of mine is sold by CPK to some other outfit, good for them! I would expect a sixpack, however:thumbup:
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Happy Anniversary!!

Thanks for the input and the relevant info. Makes sense! Much appreciated. I realize there is no perfect answer.

Maybe I shouldn't say priced too cheap, maybe it's priced appropriately for his goal, that which I don't know.
 
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