The FK, demand and what could it's future be?

Hmm it does seem a strange thread to me, and I agree with the comment about flipping.

As a person that hopes to get one of these, setting up an anticipated resale price does make those hopes less hopefull.

And I agree with LA that a maker needs to set his or her price in order to make a profit otherwise they will not have a future. It's a fine line between making a living or making a killing. I certainly think that Nathan deserves to make enough for the fine work he does. It is ultimately up to him as to what is fair.

To Nathan and Lorien, great work on both your part!
G2

Edited to add: Congrats on 12 years!!! We reached 36 this August ourselves:)
 
Gary W. Graley said:
Hmm it does seem a strange thread to me, and I agree with the comment about flipping.

As a person that hopes to get one of these, setting up an anticipated resale price does make those hopes less hopefull.

And I agree with LA that a maker needs to set his or her price in order to make a profit otherwise they will not have a future. It's a fine line between making a living or making a killing. I certainly think that Nathan deserves to make enough for the fine work he does. It is ultimately up to him as to what is fair.

To Nathan and Lorien, great work on both your part!
G2

Edited to add: Congrats on 12 years!!! We reached 36 this August ourselves:)
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is trying to set up a resale price, that has already been done by the people who have sold them on the exchange. I commented on it because they are certainly in massive demand and most of what has his the market has sold almost instantly, and almost all sellers have made a small profit over their cost. A couple that were sold internationally and listed at a much higher than original price were not sold as the cost to cover the super expensive shipping was simply not tolerated by the market. So the secondary market has been established, and that can give us a little info on what people would pay for that condition of knife.

The point was to discuss if having a different price would have effected the current demand, and how that would have possibly changed the level of disappointed people who were unable to get one up to this point.

I personally don't think the line between making a living and killing is anything close to $50.

Additionally, to share our opinions on what the possibilities could be for the FK model.

Not because we want to tell Nathan how to run his business. Because we want to discuss these things, as on of the purposes of the forums is discussion.

And Happy anniversary to you as well!
 
Thanks on the congrats it's a long time that's gone so quickly:)

Sorry for any misunderstanding, I guess the thread title took me down that path when you asked what's a Field Knife worth.
G2
 
I'm a little frustrated. I've been trying to get one and I'll never grab one on the Friday sale. I'll never be sitting at a PC at a certain time.

I'm on the list for one but it seems like a bunch of people are editing their listing and wanting two or three now. Which I think is bs. Mainly because it puts me further down the line so they can flip a high demand knife. The price is right, people,want the knives.

I have to say though, I'm curious with your relationship with this knife maker. Are you part of the team there, because if not your postings are really suspicious.

If I'm off base, I apologize.
 
LukeTheSpook said:
I'm a little frustrated. I've been trying to get one and I'll never grab one on the Friday sale. I'll never be sitting at a PC at a certain time.

I'm on the list for one but it seems like a bunch of people are editing their listing and wanting two or three now. Which I think is bs. Mainly because it puts me further down the line so they can flip a high demand knife. The price is right, people,want the knives.

I have to say though, I'm curious with your relationship with this knife maker. Are you part of the team there, because if not your postings are really suspicious.

If I'm off base, I apologize.
Click to expand...

Well if you made the list you will get one. Maybe not as fast as you thought you would, but that is still good that you got one.

I'm gonna change the thread title. No I am not part of CPK. Just a big fan.
 
Gary W. Graley said:
Thanks on the congrats it's a long time that's gone so quickly:)

Sorry for any misunderstanding, I guess the thread title took me down that path when you asked what's a Field Knife worth.
G2
Click to expand...

You have been married as long as I have been alive, but I agree gone too quickly!

Yes I edited to make it less infuriating as it seems it was triggering a sentiment I was not going for at all.
 
As with any business, customers are free to speculate about costs, future pricing, demand, secondary markets, and even business optimization by expressing their opinion on the open forum. Let's give the original poster the benefit of the doubt as a member of this community and try not to make it a conspiracy theory.

Now to the original post - Justin, I think Nathan's pricing is appropriate. He seems to have created an economy of scale on certain aspects of production. You mention that some knifemakers have costs that are related to components unrelated to function. To me, that is the part of the market I am most interested in, as I believe knives can be a medium of expression for artists and that art should be supoorted. Reduce the knife to function alone and you will find the unassuming Tramontina machete to be of remarkable efficiency and value. It is that right mix of function, beauty, and community that keeps me here.

If the knives go up in value in the secondary market, I would think that to be a good motivator for continued purchasing. Knifemakers walk a thin line with production and the exclusivity of a product can be a powerful motivator to buy.
 
DRAMA!

satangoat.gif~original


^I'm gonna call that "drama goat" :D


It's a fundamental principal of our business that the work is worth what we charge for it. If I raise my price I have to increase the value of the product proportionally and that will move it out of our sweet spot. Right now there is a well balanced bang for the buck. I like making field grade tools. I don't want to get into making a lot of superfluous fancy stuff. Not right now anyways.

There is a supply/demand imbalance. Rather than reduce demand by charging an unreasonable price I'd rather increase supply <--- because that provides a real value. And I have increased supply. At the end of 2016 our output is almost double what it was at the beginning of the year. If it doubles again next year we will eventually start fulfilling demand.

I'm going to retire the Field Knife because I'm tired of making it. I have to choose how to spend my time, and I've spent a fair amount of it on several hundred Field Knives. I'm going to make some EDCs, Choppers and the new Survival Knife. I want to make a folder at some point. I will come back to some kind of field knife again, it's too useful a design to ignore, but I have other stuff I want to make.
 
personally, I'd like to update the FK design at some point down the road. There is always room for improvement!
 
Panthera tigris said:
Now to the original post - Justin, I think Nathan's pricing is appropriate. He seems to have created an economy of scale on certain aspects of production. You mention that some knifemakers have costs that are related to components unrelated to function. To me, that is the part of the market I am most interested in, as I believe knives can be a medium of expression for artists and that art should be supoorted. Reduce the knife to function alone and you will find the unassuming Tramontina machete to be of remarkable efficiency and value. It is that right mix of function, beauty, and community that keeps me here.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the reply.

I agree that knives can be an expression of art, and artistic talent. Bob has posted some knives here there were only intended to be art objects which I understand and appreciate. I very much hope collectors like him continue to pay the prices they do as they are the people who allow that upper end of the market to exist and some makers to earn a living by spending huge amounts of time on a single knife and the industry would be lessened without them.

I was getting more to the.... these knives are not art objects but tools market in the comparison. Some aspects of them are still art I understand. However some aspects of the knife I was not aware of like the difference between Latrobe, domestically produced A2, vs the other A2, produced overseas and just rolled in the US etc become important factors to me while they might be irrelevant to other people when considering a knife which will be used.

I totally understand to each person, priorities are different. I have had more than 20 Unique graphic Sebenzas with Damascus steel blades over the years which were never used so yes I have been there too. That is why I said, comparing a FK to similar, as in a tool knife vs an art knife. Something I would use in the same fashion. My preference here. I am not trashing other makers knives nor their purpose. I absolutely would love an embellished handle on Nathan's work. In fact I own many just like that, which are collector's objects to me though they are still 100% functional. To me that is the standard I need to be parted with my money. But again, the OP was about the functional intended to be used FK, and something comparable.

Simply, in a purely collectible art knife I only plan to look at I don't really care what edge holding is like, as I will never cut with it. However I do not own knives like that at this point in my life as I have a young family and limited budget. On a knife I want to cut with, I don't want an inferior steel or even HT used but the knife cost $100 more because it has a fancier handle. Personal preference again. I am 100% sure if Nathan was to produce a much more embellished handle it would require more time, cost more and output would be less and that is exactly the opposite of the 'field grade' standard Nathan promises, but massively over delivers. That is part of the value the FK represents to me.

I really lost my train of thought as my toddler wanted to play for a minute. I will try again later!
 
JustinFournier said:
Thank you for the reply.

I agree that knives can be an expression of art, and artistic talent. Bob has posted some knives here there were only intended to be art objects which I understand and appreciate. I very much hope collectors like him continue to pay the prices they do as they are the people who allow that upper end of the market to exist and some makers to earn a living by spending huge amounts of time on a single knife and the industry would be lessened without them.

I was getting more to the.... these knives are not art objects but tools market in the comparison. Some aspects of them are still art I understand. However some aspects of the knife I was not aware of like the difference between Latrobe, domestically produced A2, vs the other A2, produced overseas and just rolled in the US etc become important factors to me while they might be irrelevant to other people when considering a knife which will be used.

I totally understand to each person, priorities are different. I have had more than 20 Unique graphic Sebenzas with Damascus steel blades over the years which were never used so yes I have been there too. That is why I said, comparing a FK to similar, as in a tool knife vs an art knife. Something I would use in the same fashion. My preference here. I am not trashing other makers knives nor their purpose. I absolutely would love an embellished handle on Nathan's work. In fact I own many just like that, which are collector's objects to me though they are still 100% functional. To me that is the standard I need to be parted with my money. But again, the OP was about the functional intended to be used FK, and something comparable.

Simply, in a purely collectible art knife I only plan to look at I don't really care what edge holding is like, as I will never cut with it. However I do not own knives like that at this point in my life as I have a young family and limited budget. On a knife I want to cut with, I don't want an inferior steel or even HT used but the knife cost $100 more because it has a fancier handle. Personal preference again. I am 100% sure if Nathan was to produce a much more embellished handle it would require more time, cost more and output would be less and that is exactly the opposite of the 'field grade' standard Nathan promises, but massively over delivers. That is part of the value the FK represents to me.

I really lost my train of thought as my toddler wanted to play for a minute. I will try again later!
Click to expand...

Excellent points as well.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
It's a fundamental principal of our business that the work is worth what we charge for it. If I raise my price I have to increase the value of the product proportionally and that will move it out of our sweet spot. Right now there is a well balanced bang for the buck. I like making field grade tools. I don't want to get into making a lot of superfluous fancy stuff. Not right now anyways.

There is a supply/demand imbalance. Rather than reduce demand by charging an unreasonable price I'd rather increase supply <--- because that provides a real value. And I have increased supply. At the end of 2016 our output is almost double what it was at the beginning of the year. If it doubles again next year we will eventually start fulfilling demand.

I'm going to retire the Field Knife because I'm tired of making it. I have to choose how to spend my time, and I've spent a fair amount of it on several hundred Field Knives. I'm going to make some EDCs, Choppers and the new Survival Knife. I want to make a folder at some point. I will come back to some kind of field knife again, it's too useful a design to ignore, but I have other stuff I want to make.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the reply and I apologize for the drama!

I absolutely agree you are adhering to the principle you state. No one will argue against that I am sure. Doubling output is a significant increase of course, and during that time I am sure the demand has well more than doubled so you know you are doing something right.

Understand and respect the decision to retire it. I know there will be many more things to make than you will have time to and no one has harassed you for the folder more than I have other than Lorien I suspect.

I am very much looking forward to the FK 2.0. I can't wait!
 
...............voluminous conjecture.......
.....redirect passions....goal should be meaningful and/or productive...

As far as an alternative in the FK, there are many, a few come to mind for me... atoms were not split nor were new elements created....
I personally love the Field knife and anything Nathan does, but I respectfully think the op needs to um...
You know, pay more attention to maybe things under his control
 
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"...and that my friends is why vests do not have sleeves..."

love that goat!!! ;)

G2
 
My own feeling about this thread and the drama within it - there are always idiots in these forums expressing opinions which may or may not be valid points, but do it seemingly with the intent to stir sh*. That's what makes them idiots.

Justin is not an idiot but one of the good guys. I have read every single post made in Nathan's forum and find Justin's remarks to be incredibly supportive of all Nathan does and to the benefit of the CPK brand. But this sub-forum, just like most, has it's idiots that read two posts, then crawl out of the woodwork, crap on someone and return to their anonymity behind the walls. Plenty of good guys to offset them, however.

EDIT/ADDED: Les Robertson always used to hammer at idiots on Bladeforums and the first thing he would say was something like "Why don't you use you real name and man up to your comments?" I don't see Justin hiding behind a pseudonym. He doesn't need to sign his work, he manned up to begin with.

End of sermon
 
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CPK knives look great and are priced OK
If they are priced too high people won't buy them
Right now the best bang for the buck for me is survive! Knives
 
Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt Bob. I'm not sure this thread was a good idea in hind sight, maybe should have saved it for a conversation in private but I do know one thing for sure, I don't wanna get on your bad side!
 
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