The Gamble

wrt my current 'gamble', I'm liking my odds :)
 
I really liked Matt Roberts knives when I signed on here and had picked up 5 of his bowies/fighters on the secondary market.
Past Peck award winner.
I decided to let him build me a nice little boot knife.
He had also just started making damascus and was newly married, new father and law career.
Stuff happens.

Good thread, STeven ! :thumbup:

Doug
 
SharpByCoop said:
Last year I consigned/sold a tortoise shell Antonio Fogarizzu folder which I purchased five years earlier for more than double to a DEALER! He also made money.
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It is great when this happens....it is unrealistic to think that it will happen all the time when you are buying pieces that you love, rather than purchasing with an eye towards resale(as you know). I personally never buy with resale as a major factor....I purchase the knife(piece) from the builder(maker-many times someone I personally know to be of good character and a very hard worker) at a value that I can afford to be "stuck" with if I decide to sell(price).

It is for this reason that I cannot see THE Wolfegang Loerchner piece of my dreams in my collection, because even at real prices, the one that I want is about $15,000 and I would have to sell off a lot of knives that I love to make it happen. It may happen someday, probably not, but it is those dreams that keep us excited about this "thing" we do.

I did get the Loveless of my dreams(ordered it from Bob directly after speaking with him on the telephone less than a year before it was delivered) and it represented a major, major moment in my life.

Probably for me like Buster Warenski's Main Gauche is for Bob Betzner....simply previous unobtanium, and a rare delight.

SharpByCoop said:
In 2009 I placed my name on a 'list' from a then-newcomer and now-legendary Italian maker who's work is off the charts. He has never contacted me about this and I'm less confident about the opportunity. But I tried the Gamble.
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IF it didn't work out like that with some regularity, there would be no gamble, only a sure thing....and we would all be winners all the time, and that is not the reality of things. For everyone of us that wins a gamble, a fair amount of people are going to lose.

SharpByCoop said:
Other makers in my collection, to me, appear to be stable. No gain, no loss. I enjoy their work.
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If you don't ultimately enjoy the work, and thought you could make a buck and it went stable....that represents a real loss in The Gamble, and that is why I always urge collectors to really imagine owning that knife for 10 years or more....will you love it after all that time, or was it just infatuation?

Burl Source said:
I think the materials used would play a big part. It is probably a given. That is most likely why it wasn't brought up.
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Great point, Mark and certainly part of The Gamble, but not a part that I wanted to focus on for this specific thread...the gamble I was talking about wasn't even specifically "piece" or "price", although those are unavoidable factors....this focus was on "maker" and specifically new makers. Material choice is a personal, visceral matter of aesthetics and preferences...it needs it's own thread.....and we have had some good ones in the past, and we will in the future.

Doug C said:
I really liked Matt Roberts knives when I signed on here and had picked up 5 of his bowies/fighters on the secondary market.
Past Peck award winner.
I decided to let him build me a nice little boot knife.
He had also just started making damascus and was newly married, new father and law career.
Stuff happens.
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Saw the writing on the wall and moved my Roberts knife along when the time was right, beautiful piece, but the knives were starting to pile up, and required some ruthless in the winnowing. A small profit was generated, and I never had remorse over the sale, and that is definitely an indicator that The Gamble paid off. You don't want to get "stuck" with a knife you are ready to move, and you don't want to lose sleep over the fact that it is no longer in your collection. You are so right though, Doug-"Stuff happens".

Thanks everybody for posting some thoughts, and

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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When you buy a knife from a new maker you encourage him to continue making knives. I have seen many new makers with outstanding qualities in their blades at shows, stopped to congratulate them but could not buy one of their blades. One in particular was really doing some beautiful work with Damascus as well as knife design. He did not sell a knife at his first show and I have never seen him at another show. Too bad, he was light years ahead of the pack, today he would be a leader had he stuck with it.
 
To extrapolate on what Mark said- do material choices by new makers have an impact on you possibly taking the gamble? If a new maker shows signs of becoming one that you would take a chance on, would you be more willing to grab a modest priced Walnut handled model or one in MOP or Mammoth? Would the higher price of the more exotic materials cut into profit margin moreso than a modest priced model that may not sell for as much but realize greater gains in worth? Or would the "lesser" materials not be as desireable, even if the knives are later sold more for name recognition than materials. As I don't sell from my collection and am a newer hobbyist maker this is something that I have wondered from a collector standpoint. Or would lower level materials make you wait until the maker started using more expensive materials/conversely could the use of high end materials signify the end of the gamble and more of the mainstream acceptance of the maker?
 
CUTS LIKE A KRIS said:
To extrapolate on what Mark said- do material choices by new makers have an impact on you possibly taking the gamble? If a new maker shows signs of becoming one that you would take a chance on, would you be more willing to grab a modest priced Walnut handled model or one in MOP or Mammoth? Would the higher price of the more exotic materials cut into profit margin moreso than a modest priced model that may not sell for as much but realize greater gains in worth? Or would the "lesser" materials not be as desireable, even if the knives are later sold more for name recognition than materials. As I don't sell from my collection and am a newer hobbyist maker this is something that I have wondered from a collector standpoint. Or would lower level materials make you wait until the maker started using more expensive materials/conversely could the use of high end materials signify the end of the gamble and more of the mainstream acceptance of the maker?
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Honestly, I would rather see new makers focus on areas all areas of grind, fit and finish. To me it DOES NOT justify the higher prices to see pearl, ivory or damascus in a new maker.

In the case of Chuck Gedraitis's piece, the fluted pearl and ladder pattern Rados damascus was intrinsic to the design....that is not the case in most pieces, or any of the others that I showed.

In the case of Nick's dagger, the piece was originally ordered in steel with a hamon, but over the time it took to get the order, Nick's damascus got crazy good, and I discovered what a PITA hamon can be to take care of on a western knife...also, the price stayed the same.

On Loveless style knives, damascus doesn't really look right, imo.

Basically, a new maker cannot go wrong doing fighter style knives with a clean hand rubbed or mirror polish with a fine, top quality piece of wood...IF their skills are up to that kind of revelation and review....if not, synthetics and bead blasting are a good option.

Making drop point hunters is great exercise, and if the price is low enough, finds ready buyers.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Thank you for your input STeven. I don't currently sell the few knives I make, but plan on making for a long time and your opinions will prove valuable once I start selling to those outside of my personal circle. I do not yet have fit and finish to where I am happy with it, and only use nicer materials on request, so that I can do both the knife and materials justice if I can. It also helps that you extrapolated on why the materials in your examples were made in the manner that they were.
 
CUTS LIKE A KRIS said:
To extrapolate on what Mark said- do material choices by new makers have an impact on you possibly taking the gamble?
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Yes. Poor material selection (trashy stag - whatever-was-in-the-dusty-shop-corner wood) makes the gamble on a newer maker even greater. As does an "out there" handle material choice (pink giraffe bone, anyone? Anyone???). But as I said earlier, this is a factor which cuts across the board from new maker to veteran. All makers should strive to use the best quality of whatever material they choose, be it wood, stag or ivory. And synthetics certainly have their place as well.
 
Interesting thread!

I just wanted to say thanks to you guys for believing in me... or at least for liking my work enough to support me in this craft while I strive to improve and grow. :)

Too bad about Matt, he was making some great stuff... but not too many guys faced with a choice of "poor-boy knife maker or financially secure attorney" wouldn't do what Matt did. ;) (btw Doug, not to be petty- I'm pretty sure I know where the Peck award went in '07) :p ;)
 
I know that, Nick.
I made a mistake..:o

From the ABS site:
George Peck Award
For the best knife submitted by a Journeyman Smith Candidate
1994 Christopher Deringer
1995 Ken Trisler
1996 Jim Jackson
1997 Wade Coulter
1998 Ron Newton
1999 Bailey Bradshaw
2000 Bill Herndon
2001 James Rodebaugh
2002 Russ Andrews
2003 Jon Christensen
2004 John White
2005 Tommy Gann
2006 Rodrigo Sfreddo
2007 Nick Wheeler :)
2008 Fuad Accawi
2009 Kyle Royer
2010 Michael Ruth, Jr

Doug :D
 
I'm thinking the gamble can go both ways.
Makers often take a gamble on collectors as well, no?
 
it seems to me that knife makers sometimes work more closely with a particular collector. Sometimes will bump this collector, (maybe patron would be a better word?) to the front of their list, or otherwise work collaboratively with them on various projects.
I might be wrong in making that generality, but I've seen it happen, and have been involved in this kind of interaction myself. In those cases I really try to do my part and make their risk worthwhile.
 
There are some dealers (collectors) who will do their best to make a maker prostitute himself and make something he does not want to make. When the maker refuses, sometimes he will face ridicule from that dealer for ever more. Call it the price of freedom.
 
I'm sure there are plenty of whores to go around, both collectors and makers, Ed. After all, it's the world's oldest profession. But not sure how it applies to this issue of helping out new makers by noticing them and buying their knives. To me, that's the sub-context of the thread, or did I miss something?

Bob
 
Read "Fountain Head" by Ayn Rand and you will gain some insight to what I suggest. Or for a short version you can purchase the DVD.
 
Ed Fowler said:
There are some dealers (collectors) who will do their best to make a maker prostitute himself and make something he does not want to make. When the maker refuses, sometimes he will face ridicule from that dealer for ever more. Call it the price of freedom.
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while I know that happens, that's not really what I was referring to.
 
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