The GREATEST STEEL for knives

SpartanSaint said:
i acknowledged that. however, i would like to point out that the op is writing from the point of view that the steel used is irrelevant. a cheaply made knife from cpm-3v is not a better knife than a knife that was well built from wootz, or what have you.

but there is no use trying to argue that to a steel junkie lol..
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CPM3V is five times tougher than CPMS30V. It's actually superior than any other steel out there. But, very very few people were able to make great knives out of it. Why, because the steel is so advance, not many knife maker understands it's behavior to different HT. Below from Jerry Hossom at knifemakersforum.com more interesting facts about CPM3V

"cut it, ground it, sent it off to Paul Bos for heat treating and it didn't take me long after I got it back to discover two things about it. 1) It wouldn't polish - period. I spent days trying to get it to shine and no polish I used would touch it, (At the time everything I did was mirror polished) and 2), it was just the best steel I'd ever seen. I beat the hell out of a couple blades, cut anything I could find and it just wouldn't chip or even dull. That was before I knew what vanadium carbides were all about. It did dull eventually but it took some doing. Maybe if I'd used KP's steel pipe I might have wounded it sooner, but I hadn't thought that far out.

So what makes this steel so special? For starters, it contains just 0.8% carbon which technically makes it eutectoid, but it really isn't. It's hypo eutectoid because some of its carbon is snapped up by the vanadium so it's more like 5160 than 1084. But, it's 5160 with 8% one micron carbides which makes it very wear resistant. And with just 8% Chromium it's almost stainless. In fact, if it weren't for random oxide contamination it would be very close to stainless. It is extremely fine grained as mentioned, just one micron, so it takes an incredibly fine edge, and short of hammering on a steel pipe at an angle it is also chip resistant. Even then it resists chips when tortured. KP was able to hand sharpen the chips out of the edge of his knife, so they were fairly minor considering what that edge endured.

What else do you want from an edge? Tougher than any other wear resistant tool steel. And it is very wear resistant, due to both it's carbide content and its resistance to chipping, which in real life is a major component of knife edge dulling. And it's corrosion resistant enough that a very light coat of a good gun oil will protect it for months. Plus, compared with something like S30V it's a walk in the park to grind and finish to a dead smooth but unpolished finish.

IMHO, CPM-3V is simply the best knife steel there is, period. Others have disagreed. There was mention of it in Blade magazine a few years ago where I was quoted as saying it was great and Darryl Ralph was quoted as saying he wouldn't have his name associated with it. Why the widely varied opinions? Paul Bos. 3V (not unlike S30V) is unforgiving in its heat treating requirements. It must be fast quenched or it won't fully harden. Makers who have learned to heat treat S30V won't have problem because they usually use quench plates which work fine with 3V. "
 
Well it seems to me that most custom makers have found their perfect steel - CPM154.

Just take a look at what most of the premium makers today are producing and you'll see this steel cropping up again and again.

Is that because its the best steel ever made? No, but it is easy to work with and doesn't wear equipment out quickly or take forever to get a nice satin finish like some of the other super steels.

Knifemakers may be passionate about their craft but they still have to make a living and super steels are a) difficult, ie time-consuming, to work with and b) hard on equipment that is costly to replace.

And its also costly to acquire in large quantities.... and most knifemakers are not loaded.
 
tiger_blade said:
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GREATEST OR THE FINEST STEEL FOR KNIFE MAKING. Don't be shocked as we always mislead a great knife by the steel it's made out of. But, we forget the man who's behind that knife who builds it. There are lots of good knife makers out there who makes great knife with proprietary steel. It's not their steel that makes their knife so great, but their effort, dedication and compassion for their blades.

Everybody knows in the blade world that BUSSE makes great knife with their INFI steel. Believe me, if anyone, besides the Busse family, comes with knives out of INFI steel will not perform like when Busse people make it. Without their hard work and devotion, those knives will never be born.

Blade is the oldest and the first tool of man. So, we men have been interested in making this great tool for a long long time. But, now days we look for the shortcut and finding bypassing good old fashioned metal forging and making great knife out of ordinary steel. Like the powder steel from CPM series from crucible steel that is supposed to break all disadvantages of making good knife (the dilemma of perfect blade steel - knife that holds an edge will sharpen easily, will not rust but perform like a carbon steel, will be very hard RC rating but will have good ductility like a sword).

Now, the Japanese people overcome this problem thousands of years ago. Their choice of steel 1045, a very ordinary carbon steel. Now, as steel it’s very simple, but after the Japanese makes blade out of it, it become super steel, even capable of cutting other High Carbon steel. The swords blade’s edge having a RC60, and the spine having RC40. So, the edge is very hard and capable of cutting through virtually anything it comes in contact with. Also, spine remains ductile and tough enough when metal to metal impact. So, it’s lot less brittle. Now, being a carbon steel it’ll rust very fast. They overcome that problem by giving their blade’s a mirror image so iron oxidation will not happen as the surface is very smooth. And heat treatment is done in such a way that the bonding between iron atoms so good that it’s chemically very stable.

Another great knife manufacturer who uses old and traditional steel and still makes knives that outperforms modern 21st Century knives is RANDALL MADE KNIFE. Using basic knife steel like 440 series and O1 as carbon steel. They used old fashioned HT and forging to make great knives. This is the same company that gave birth to Bob Loveless as their waiting for a knife was so long that he started making his own.

So, current manufacturer is trying to bring that great steel for us at an affordable price using modern technology to create that steel man been making over thousands of year. Unfortunately, technology fails in this case and we are not even close.

As an Engineer and great admirer of man’s oldest tool, I still believe technology is helpless to make a great knife that makes time stand still to it. Just need a knifemaker’s devotion, passion and love for making that great blade. :thumbup:
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Agreed. I grow weary of "best steel" threads when there is so much more to it and have written similar responses to other "best steel" threads when I catch them and feel inclined to enlighten.

-E
 
SpartanSaint said:
i said some. i did not say i did, and find me where it was duplicated please; from my understanding, fold welded steels are not true damascus.

i'm not seriously dense. i don't know much, but i can read. try that some time. you obviously didn't read the op. it wasn't that hard to understand. feel free to disagree with him, but its not like he worded it poorly or that it was that hard of a concept to understand.

the rest of the trolling is pathetic. leave it on topic
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Well. Thank goodness the General Knife Discussion forum here has you as a resident mod to tell us when we are trolling! We would have been too "pathetic" and "dense" to realize it.
 
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