THE Hollow Handle Knife Thread

TAH said:
Not my knife, but here's an interesting piece from Steve Voorhis. A Predator style blade with a hollow handle...

s-l1600.jpg
Click to expand...



That is so awesome!
 
Three things:
1-I like my RPW X46 better than my old CRK mountaineer. The oval/square handle is more secure and nicer to use than the round handle of the CRK. I really like this little knife.

2- The Martin MCE2 is holding up well for a HH. I would trust it in a survival situation at this point. And no, I would not baton or chop with this, or any HH knife, in a survival situation. Too much risk in breaking my tool when there are lots of other ways to get small tinder.

3-When it comes to bears, I carry a .44 magnum with solid bullets. These are hot rounds made for dangerous game. However, I have no illusion that any handgun round is the first choice to stop a charging bear, especially a grizzly or brown. And yes, I have owned bigger caliber revolvers than a .44 magnum too. So what? Never bring a pistol to a rifle fight. I only carry a pistol because of the convenience compared to a rifle, hence, I always have it on me.

I was talking to a friend who is going camping next year in Yellowstone. He wondered what would be the best caliber revolver for bears. I told him that the best caliber is the one one you can control while you are shoving the barrel into its mouth while it is mauling you.
The first shot you probably missed while it was charging you, which gave the bear enough time to close the 25 yards in the time it took you to squeeze off the second shot, which you also probably missed, before it nailed you.

Unless you are really good, (and calm), and nail the bear in the shoulder to put him down before he reaches you, even head/heart shots aren't a guarantee that he/she is is going going down. There are lots of bad tempered bears out there with .44 magnum slugs stuck in their foreheads....

I told my friend that I personally would recommend a good big can of quality pepper spray. Hardly any trading needed and very effective on grizzlys. I also warned him that some black bears aren't fazed by pepper spray. No one nows why. Blackies aren't as dangerous as grizzlys or brownies though, so spray is still a good option.

As for anyone who thinks that a knife is a good defense/hunting option for dangerous game, especially made into a spear or thrown, well, you are just a fool.
 
bearcut said:
I like my RPW X46 better than my old CRK mountaineer. The oval/square handle is more secure and nicer to use than the round handle of the CRK. I really like this little knife.
Click to expand...

Interesting, do you miss the Mountaineer's single guard?

bearcut said:
I was talking to a friend who is going camping next year in Yellowstone. He wondered what would be the best caliber revolver for bears.
Click to expand...

I have to admit, I wasn't aware that it is now legal to carry firearms in Yellowstone, but here's the rest of story from their website...


Can I Bring a Gun to Yellowstone?
Yes, you can carry a gun in Yellowstone. But it's illegal to fire it - even in self defense. And once you exit Yellowstone, you could be in one of three states, so it's important to know the law.

Yes, guns are permitted in Yellowstone National Park
Park visitors are able to openly carry legal handguns, rifles, shotguns and other firearms per a federal law approved by Congress and signed by President Barack Obama in February 2010. Concealed weapons are allowed by state statute.

Can I shoot my gun?
In a word, no. The overarching permission that allows guns in Yellowstone doesn’t note the range of additional rules surrounding the presence of firearms in the park. The most important caveat is that visitors aren’t allowed to shoot them. Hunting is strictly forbidden in Yellowstone, as is target practice. And visitors should not use guns as self-defense against large wildlife, but rather carry bear spray and take other safety precautions. Firearms are also prohibited in facilities like visitor centers and government offices. These locations are labeled at all public entrances.

If I can’t shoot my gun, why are they allowed?
According to park ranger and guides, the main reason for allowing guns in Yellowstone is to facilitate town-to-town travel for local citizens. Many areas outside of the park are prime hunting locations, and hunters often use roads through Yellowstone because it’s the most direct route, or in the case of Cooke City in the winter, the only route. It’s difficult for rangers to restrict people from carrying guns in their vehicles.
 
bearcut said:
Three things:

Unless you are really good, (and calm), and nail the bear in the shoulder to put him down before he reaches you, even head/heart shots aren't a guarantee that he/she is is going going down. There are lots of bad tempered bears out there with .44 magnum slugs stuck in their foreheads....

I told my friend that I personally would recommend a good big can of quality pepper spray. Hardly any trading needed and very effective on grizzlys. I also warned him that some black bears aren't fazed by pepper spray. No one nows why. Blackies aren't as dangerous as grizzlys or brownies though, so spray is still a good option.
Click to expand...

Hi Bearcut, welcome to the discussion. Just a couple of things. Assuming the charging bear is facing you, you cannot hit it in the shoulder. Aim for center mass. Actually black bears maul and kill more people in Alaska than grizzlies do. Black bears are more apt to get themselves into sticky situations than Grizzlies thus confrontations are more common with them, at least up here. In all we have had six bear attacks this year.

Not the same thing but this year two different people were hunted, killed and eaten by black bears. Grizzlies do it too, but less often. The good news is, a .44 is very good medicine for black bears, we hunt them with .44s all the time.

Bear spray has not been proven very effective for our big grizzlies and especially the brownies. Most of the bear guides up here scoff at the idea of using bear spray for protection. To each his own on that, I guess.

Just some back ground here, I am a guide up here (since '84), have been charged by three brown bears and one black bear (all wounded) that needed killing.
 
Last edited:
Gaston444 said:
Never heard of Ben Lilly have you?

"You are condemned, you black devil,” Lilly once shouted, before piercing a bear with his knife tied to a pole.

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/we-benllilly4.html

Gaston
Click to expand...

bearcut said:
Three things:
As for anyone who thinks that a knife is a good defense/hunting option for dangerous game, especially made into a spear or thrown, well, you are just a fool.
Click to expand...

Naturally, if you had a gun you would use it. If you don't have a gun, use the next best thing. No one, (I think) is advocating planning on using a knife for defense against bears. We're talking about the "un-planned for" here. I think most of us would agree that the whole purpose of the survival knife is the "un-planned for". Some of us do go on survival trips for the sport of it, and there have been some bears killed with blades lashed to poles for sport but that's the exception.
 
Gaston444 said:
Never heard of Ben Lilly have you?

"You are condemned, you black devil,” Lilly once shouted, before piercing a bear with his knife tied to a pole.

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/we-benllilly4.html

Gaston
Click to expand...
I have. Having lived in Silver City, and now in Arizona, yeah, we all have. Don't believe most of it. Any more than I believe the grizzled Alaska guide I followed around who claimed a Kodiak kill with his bare hands after a couple of beers. But he carried a .375 H&H. As suggested above, he didn't bring a knife to a bear fight.
 
Mark Knapp said:
Hi Bearcut, welcome to the discussion. Just a couple of things. Assuming the charging bear is facing you, you cannot hit it in the shoulder. Aim for center mass. Actually black bears maul and kill more people in Alaska than grizzlies do. Black bears are more apt to get themselves into sticky situations than Grizzlies thus confrontations are more common with them, at least up here. In all we have had six bear attacks this year.

Not the same thing but this year two different people were hunted, killed and eaten by black bears. Grizzlies do it too, but less often. The good news is, a .44 is very good medicine for black bears, we hunt them with .44s all the time.

Bear spray has not been proven very effective for our big grizzlies and especially the brownies. Most of the bear guides up here scoff at the idea of using bear spray for protection. To each his own on that, I guess.

Just some back ground here, I am a guide up here (since '84), have been charged by three brown bears and one black bear (all wounded) that needed killing.
Click to expand...

Wow! Did use use a handgun to shoot the charging bears?
 
Glad we don't have bears over here.

Due to our ridiculous gun laws (not helped by media who portray even BB guns and air rifles as 'lethal', 'deadly', and other stupidity) we'd be fending them off with harsh words and rude gestures.:rolleyes:

Anyway...I'm currently making a hollow handle knife very much in the style of a certain Mr Lile.

I've done a cord wrapped handle before, on a 'hollow handle style' knife I posted on here a while back. I wrapped it with 2mm paracord, using the method on Newt Martin's website. It's a very good way of wrapping a handle, but the ridge it leaves from the loop going along one side under the wrap annoys me.

I've not noticed this on pictures I've seen of Liles. Does anyone know how he done his cord wraps?

I'm pretty sure I've also read somewhere that his cord wraps were laquered in some way. Can anyone confirm this?

Any other information on how Lile constructed his knives would be highly appreciated.

Once I've finished the knife, I'll post it up for you to have a look at.

Thanks,

Ian.
 
irbailey said:
Glad we don't have bears over here.

Due to our ridiculous gun laws (not helped by media who portray even BB guns and air rifles as 'lethal', 'deadly', and other stupidity) we'd be fending them off with harsh words and rude gestures.:rolleyes:

Anyway...I'm currently making a hollow handle knife very much in the style of a certain Mr Lile.

I've done a cord wrapped handle before, on a 'hollow handle style' knife I posted on here a while back. I wrapped it with 2mm paracord, using the method on Newt Martin's website. It's a very good way of wrapping a handle, but the ridge it leaves from the loop going along one side under the wrap annoys me.

I've not noticed this on pictures I've seen of Liles. Does anyone know how he done his cord wraps?

I'm pretty sure I've also read somewhere that his cord wraps were laquered in some way. Can anyone confirm this?

Any other information on how Lile constructed his knives would be highly appreciated.

Once I've finished the knife, I'll post it up for you to have a look at.

Thanks,

Ian.
Click to expand...

My Lile Mission's cord is not lacquered (as in solid-coated overall, the rope becoming a solid single mass: It is just very tightly wrapped), but the cord is very special stuff (maybe waxed or pre-coated in some way?), very, very resistant to fraying or cosmetic damage, and very neatly wrapped: I could not replicate this wrapping if I got it off, because the cord is so thin and it is so neatly and evenly done. It is more impressive than the slightly rough work of the dual blade grinder on the blade itself in fact!

All I can say about the Lile wrapping method is that it has no line of rope running under it, so it is perfectly round, and the end near the guard is neatly but obviously melted. I think the rope is also melted, or going into a slot, on the pommel side. It is less obviously melted than on the guard side at any rate.

(Of note is that Liles are not silver soldered at the guard, so heating the knife for a Cerakoat produces "oil sweat" from the G-Flex type resin in the handle, seeping through the guard, while the masked cord remains utterly unfazed... The trick is to apply the paint quickly, so the oil sweats "over" the paint...)

The Lile cord is really just right in every way, providing good traction, yet never aggressive and never causing any blister, even under extremely heavy use: This cord's features should be emulated by every other hollow handle knife maker in my opinion... The cord was equally good on the RJ Martin I used to have (whose S30V performed poorly for me: Hard to sharpen and quick dulling). From what RJ Martin said about it, the very last roll of black rope from the original Lile shop (as it closed in 2000) went on his Vanguard/Raven-Blackbird series. I would guess this means it is difficult to find this stuff made to these same exact specs...

When you see cosmetic damage on the cord of an old Lile, be sure that whatever caused it was something truly careless...

Gaston
 
Last edited:
Thank you Gaston.

I've noticed the melted cord ends on pictures of Liles...they certainly look very neat and tidy.

I've spent ages online searching through various types of cord, a lot of which seems to be aimed at jewellry making, also purse net cord, barley twist cord, blind cord, paracord, etc. The choices are endless!

I've settled on some 2mm olive green braided nylon. It's nice solid stuff (by that I mean it stays round and won't flatten out when pulled tight) and I love the colour.

I think I need to get a piece of 1" pipe and do some practicing with the melted end method. I don't want the ridge running underneath the wrap, but I don't want it coming undone either.

I hope to get the knife assembled this weekend. As soon as I do I'll post some pictures up.

This thread has been very useful in learning more about hollow handle knives and the subtle details which make all the difference between a proper tool and a movie inspired toy. Just a shame we've lost so many pictures due to the changes with Photobucket.

Keep the pictures coming...brilliant thread and thanks to everyone who has contributed.

Ian.
 
Ian,

Back in the 80s, I owned a Lile Sly II. For some reason, I called the Lile shop and asked for some black nylon cord - I guess in case my handle needed rewrapping one day. Foolishly, I traded the Sly II many, many years ago, but still have the nylon cord! Over the years, I have used the cord for small projects. At the height of the hollow handle knife craze, it was well documented that Lile's nylon cord was "specially treated for wear and rot resistance", but the actual treatment was never revealed. The cord they sent me definitively has a stiffer feel to it. If you like, feel free to email me your mailing address and I'll send you a small sample, so you can look for a close match.

Regarding not wanting a ridge running underneath the wrap, I simply unravel (fray) the starting end about two inches. When you begin to wrap the cord around the handle at the buttcap end, the unraveled (frayed) end flattens out and eliminates the ridge.

Looking forward to seeing your knife when complete! :)

Best,
Tom
on.safari@att.net

PS - I agree with Gaston. Lile's wrap job was by far the best. Beautifully wrapped tight and rock hard.
 
Thank you Tom, very much appreciated.
I'll send you an email a bit later. :thumbsup:

I had a practice on a piece of pipe before doing the knife. The frayed end method works a treat. I always seem to overlook the blindingly obvious!
I worked the cord from the screw cap down to the guard and then passed the underneath itself. I then pulled it tight with pliers and melted the end together. It worked perfectly and produced a lovely tight, hard wrap, with no ridge.
Perfect. :)

I've taken a few pictures as I've built this. Anyone fancy a quick WIP?

Ian.
 
Looking good, Ian. Thanks for the photos. I like the knife in the top right corner of the last photo. Did you make it?
 
Thanks. :)

Can't believe you spotted that other knife!

It's one I made for general bench chores...cutting wet & dry and suchlike...as my old one has been sharpened down to virtually nothing.
It's made from a thin piece of 15n20 which I had left over from making damascus with a couple of Yew slabs pinned onto it.

Cheers,

Ian.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top