The Killing Knife ~ Deisgn

Errrmm...Most of the serious folks opine that the best for combat/survival is a six to seven inch straight-bladed knife. Like the venerable Ka-bar. Case could be made for others though I suppose..

TWBryan


Not to play semantics, but "combat/survival" is vastly different than "killing" which is the activity referred to in the title.

For "Combat" I'd personally choose a bayonet with a rifle attached to the other end of it. For survival I would choose a simple Leuku or hatchet For killing...I'd prefer a knife of the style mentioned in my previous post. Incidentally, I believe James Keating, Bill Bagwell, and Laci Szabo could all be considered quite "serious folks" who have spoken highly of larger sized bowies in this regard.

For one knife that does it all.....well....that's the type of topic that keeps us knife nuts always coming back for more.:D
 
Kronckew,

Are those knives your collection? The badek is my personal favorite - right, maybe I'm biased bcoz I'm Malaysian. My other favorite KILLING knives are the traditional kerambit and Fairbain Sykes.

In the rural area where I come from, those knives might really come in handy. But then, so is the training.
 
Kronckew,

Are those knives your collection? The badek is my personal favorite - right, maybe I'm biased bcoz I'm Malaysian. My other favorite KILLING knives are the traditional kerambit and Fairbain Sykes.

In the rural area where I come from, those knives might really come in handy. But then, so is the training.

hi arya, yes, they all live with me, and a few more, inc. a couple more badeks, parangs, pedangs, goloks, klewangs, and a keris or two, a kujang, a tombok (lading terus), a few dhas, and a number of others....

the description of the badek from the dealer in singapore was:

Badek Bugis Qul Buntet Buntil Mayit - A good example of short knife called Badek from the southern Sulawesi regions of Bugis. Handle is made of kemuning woods and is encased at the base with a plain silver alloy panel. Sheath is made from angsena woods and is finely carved at the top with floral motifs in the form of a makara.

Very sturdy blade with a single sharp edge and a tapering tip. The sharp edge is also angled and is also well tempered from the darker shades seen along the edges.

Pamor patterns are rare, and are arranged in the miring technique. At the base, a circular formation is seen and is called pamor qul buntet. Above it are diagonal patterns called pamor buntil mayit or death shroud.

The pamor qul buntet is said to protect the owner while the pamor buntil mayit is said to enhance the owner’s status.

Condition: Very good condition.

Age: Krises and other edge weapons are traditionally made without any date stampings or engravings of the makers' name. Although a kris smith or "empu" has his own styles configured together with the dapor and especially the ganjar (cross piece). Obvious age wear and tear, usage, familiarity with forms, motifs and designs, origin and history, mediums and materials used are our guidelines in determining an approximate age. This particular piece, from our experience and knowledge, should go back to the late 19th century blade, with late 20th century fittings.

Length of blade: 6.4". Overall length: 9.5".
 
If and only if a gun won't do. Most tactical knives seem a little outlandish to me. I think khukuri's are great because it's gonna make anybody think twice about fighting you mano Y mano.
 
The "killing knives" made by the government for military use have tended to be stabbing weapons with large handguards. For whatever that's worth...
I have always been fascinated by the non-firearm weapons of WW1. Modern made weapons of the past: one last hoorah for swords, maces and knives.
Look at the fighting knives of the military from 1890 to 1930.
 
...
I have always been fascinated by the non-firearm weapons of WW1. Modern made weapons of the past: one last hoorah for swords, maces and knives.
Look at the fighting knives of the military from 1890 to 1930...

me too. the last great use of edged weapons, the last formal 'charge' of british cavalry with sabres against german lancers was at the start of ww1, the germans, largely badly trained recruits lost big time to the well trained british, unfortunately their next 'charge' came up against barbed wire and spandaus. the end of horse charges.

ww1 trench knives and grabendolchen are very interesting, as are trench maces and other improvised weapons, some even officially issued. i saw a ww1 trench mace on ebay last year, lost the auction tho.

the himalayas, se asia, malaysia and indonesia, away from the big urban areas, still depend on edged weapons and tools in their daily lives and is probably their last bastion of the 21st century. japan, of course has their traditional love of the sword and the bow in a historical context more than a practical one, tho their seki hunting knives and such are still top notch users.
 
Some of you know how crazy I am about one WW1 weapon in particular.
Here are pics of my Welsh Trench Knife.
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/takflet/album/576460762382533730

Very cool. I was just reading about those somewhere on the web. This was an OSS Smatchet based on the Cledd made by Case. Pretty cool

P1120001.JPG


This reminds me of a modern version of the Cledd:
Forester
Blade Length: 10 Inches Overall Length: 15.750 Inches Thickness of Blade: .275 Inch Width of Blade: 2.5 Inches Length of Cutting Edge: 9.5 Inches Blade Steel: Bolher N-685 Stain Resistant High Carbon Alloy Hardness: 58 rc Guard and Pommel Material: Brass Weight: 24 Ounces Weight With Sheath:28.250 Ounces
Forester%20Black%20&%20Green%20Linen%20Micarta.jpg


Mike said he can sharpen both edges to make it more like the original Cledd.
 
Killing knife?
Fairbairn Sikes
Applegate Fairbairn
Randall mod 2
TOPS Rangers Edge
Ek M4
 
Well, there are a few things to consider.

There is a specific type of knife that Byron calls a "Killing Knife": it is a bowie-shaped knife with about a 5.5-7" blade. It's bigger than a skinner has to be, and smaller than a good chopping knife should be.

An ideal killing blade for me may NOT be the same thing as a "battle blade"- something I might use against an aware and wary foe, if I didn't have something with more reach. My Crow is a perfect example of the latter, a knife powerful enough to power through even a resisting foe, as opposed to a knife designed ONLY to pierce a vital organ in a passive target.

FWIW, I am not a fan of double-edged knives. There are specific techniques that cannot be used with them, they are illegal in many areas, and I do NOT believe they penetrate better.

John (GREAT to see you, Shane!)
 
It's not so much that a knife has to be designed for killing, but rather the knife thats used for killing be very sharp. The most important thing would be mindset. A determined person is perhaps the most lethal weapon, the blade only facilitates the kill. Kichen knives, folders, fixed blades and box cutters all have a long bloody history in the murder numbers, as far as cutters are concerned. Non cutters have long lists of killing tools too, but that's another discussion.
 
Guys,

This is the stuff I was hoping to discuss.

All of you mentioned some part of a common thread...(no pun)
in design when it comes this specialized tool....

And all of the pics posted...sort of illustrated the same ideas...

As a maker...I used to have some pretty set ideas of how and what a killing knife should be...

And I used to absolutely hated double edged blades...my ignorance knew no bounds...

I agree with Bufford...mind set is everything....

What I am trying to do...is identify...perfect...evolve...the elements of the knife used strictly as a killing tool...

Having said that...

I hear double edged as being a common requirement...at this point I would include what is called a "bowie" with a false edge....and I believe it should be sharpenable....although I feel what matters more is that there is a bevel rather than square back edge...

As to length...I would say 7 to 10 inches is sufficient.

What else?

Handle material is as important as handle design....

And for a knife this large...carry method becomes a big part of the entire package...

I will try to keep this thread going...by coming to the library as often as I can...

SHane
 
This is one example of what Byron calls a killing knife. (By John Greco.)

I have a somewhat differently shaped bowie by John that ably fills my idea of what killing knife should be, as well, with a micarta coffin handle.

John
 
For Shane:
battlebowie350.jpg

Yes yes, if one wants to make a good combination. Take mindset and add a knife that is both double edged to do the cutting, and a wide blade for damage and strength add these together. This combination would be deadly indeed.:)
 
Dave,

I actually don't think that's a very good design. The blade is thin, so it won't do as much damage, and it will also break easier. A wider, more solid blade instead of the "knuckle buster" guard would make it a better killer, while having no more mass overall.

John
 
I don't know if it is any better than other designs, but I picked up a SOG Trident (the original version) a few years ago at a gun show... it "felt" like it wanted to be used against someone. :eek:

It was weird... and I put it down pretty quick. Maybe it was just the design geometry and how it fit my hand... the balance, etc... I'm fairly confident that I'm not a homicidal maniac... so it wasn't me (I think)...
 
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