The Knight's Edge CMKII

[Caleb Fechner]

You don't know how to use the website, you didn't bother to read and follow the rules you agreed to when you signed up, You did not bother to get a feel for a community full of people you are asking to give you money. It is clear in your video you don't know how to safely use a knife, much less make one. Do you see no problems here?

Getting a loan from a bank puts the risk on you. Using kickstarter or whatever puts the risk on the customers, the people you are asking for the moeny. That will be a problem for most. We've seen this too many times. First post asking for money. Do you not see a problem with that?

Stick around and actually become a contributing member. Read and learn a lot. Then maybe ask for money.

Since you obviously don't understand, I will explain it to you. A loan would require me too pay back the money every month with INTEREST, that means I would have to sell a certain amount of stock in order to do that. I'm basically using Kickstarter to take a pre order...

 

[Caleb Fechner]

Hey buddy I thought your knife looked like a pretty cool little blade . The people above bring valid points, some kind of dickish but none the less valid. This is the best place to pick up an abundance of knowledge, make new friends, and talk knives. Just read the rules, take what has been said with a grain of salt, and try again. Don’t let all this get you down. Like others have said all I could think about was girls when I was 16. Keep your chin up, that looks like a quality piece.

Thank you Anthony!

 

[Caleb Fechner]

I'm out.

As I figured. I bring up valid points destroying your argument, and you can't defend yourself so you leave.

 

[Caleb Fechner]

Hey Caleb, I appreciate the fact that you want to make this happen. This is America damn it live your dream! That being said if you are at the point in your knife loving that you're willing to pay money to discuss knives and such with strangers on the net. Chances are they/we have above average knowledge about knives plus other edged tools, different steels, and how to use them properly. In my experience with this forum is the majority want to help other/new guys out. There are many that will give you a hard time. I think you should get your facts and lingo right. No offence to you bud, but this forum is very passionate about our love of edged tools runs strong. If your knife ever comes to fruition don't right of BF if your experience here is negative. There are so many proven knives from proven makers here to buy from.
I'm sure your intentions are upstanding but in my opinion you'll not be well recieved (as in money upfront) here until you've established a name and a proven product.
You're more than welcome to enjoy this amazing community as long as you follow the rules. If you ask properly and politely some of the more experienced guys may give you some good advice.
As previously stated when i was 16 i was more worried about girls and drinking dad's vodka and replacing it with water until i could get a bottle to replace it.
Good luck my friend with your future Endeavors!

I definitely could have had a better debut hahaha. Thanks for the sensible and well thought out advice!

 

[bhyde]

As I figured. I bring up valid points destroying your argument, and you can't defend yourself so you leave.

He left not because he couldn't defend his position but because he was heeding the warning that I stated earlier.

 

[WValtakis]

Since you obviously don't understand, I will explain it to you. A loan would require me too pay back the money every month with INTEREST, that means I would have to sell a certain amount of stock in order to do that. I'm basically using Kickstarter to take a pre order...

And if you had bothered getting to know the community, you would know that pre-orders are almost universally frowned on here. There have been a large number of them gone sideways...I will only preorder with one maker at this point in time (and he hates taking pre-orders).

~Chip

 

[Caleb Fechner]

And if you had bothered getting to know the community, you would know that pre-orders are almost universally frowned on here. There have been a large number of them gone sideways...I will only preorder with one maker at this point in time (and he hates taking pre-orders).

~Chip

That is your decision and I respect it. Can you have the decency to respect mine?

 

[abcdef]

Caleb, welcome to BF. A lot of us got popped a few times when we were new, but rules are rules. If you will put in some time and effort, you will find a ton of knowledge and a lot of good folks here, which include the members who have already posted above.

 

[Caleb Fechner]

He left not because he couldn't defend his position but because he was heeding the warning that I stated earlier.

Understood. I just wanted an explanation.

 

[Caleb Fechner]

Caleb, welcome to BF. A lot of us got popped a few times when we were new, but rules are rules. If you will put in some time and effort, you will find a ton of knowledge and a lot of good folks here, which include the members who have already posted above.

Thank you kind sir. I look forward to the future with anticipation.

 

[Pilsner]

Would you care to elaborate? The reason I took the approach I did is because most knife users even frown at batoning and claim it's improper knife use.
I did not come here to start drama, and I'm sad to see it's escalated into something like that. I just wanted to advertise my business venture. Thanks, Caleb

Caleb, I’m not going to pick apart what I think is wrong with your video, but instead I’ll make a positive suggestion. Share this thread with your Dad, have a chat about it, and perhaps have a rethink. I’d suggest sending it to an experienced outdoorsman/woman, and asking them to video a demonstration of the various techniques you want shown. Apart from anything else, a pair of older hands wouldn’t damage the product’s credibility.

As for the knife, it looks fine to me. I like D2, I like micarta, full tang construction, etc. The structure of the video is fine, although I would recommend also making a second video with complete specs and commentary.

Otherwise, I’m out. I have no wish to rain on your parade. I have two sons, one older than you, one younger. If they were engaged in such an enterprise, I would be pleased by their endeavour. You’ve taken some lumps, which is only the beginning of a long road - it won’t all be as tough as this, but some things will be far tougher. Take the lumps, and you will very likely make good progress. I wish you good luck.

 

[Caleb Fechner]

Well, with your father's backing and only being about $10,000 I think you'll be okay. Do you have concerns about the manufacturing and distribution? Why should people back you if you are not confident enough to do it yourself?
Just some things to think about.

Neither myself nor my father have that type funds just lying around... "Only $10,000" Maybe I myself will be able to utter that statement one day, but today is not that day.

 

[Caleb Fechner]

Caleb, I’m not going to pick apart what I think is wrong with your video, but instead I’ll make a positive suggestion. Share this thread with your Dad, have a chat about it, and perhaps have a rethink. I’d suggest sending it to an experienced outdoorsman/woman, and asking them to video a demonstration of the various techniques you want shown. Apart from anything else, a pair of older hands wouldn’t damage the product’s credibility.

As for the knife, it looks fine to me. I like D2, I like micarta, full tang construction, etc. The structure of the video is fine, although I would recommend also making a second video with complete specs and commentary.

Otherwise, I’m out. I have no wish to rain on your parade. I have two sons, one older than you, one younger. If they were engaged in such an enterprise, I would be pleased by their endeavour. You’ve taken some lumps, which is only the beginning of a long road - it won’t all be as tough as this, but some things will be far tougher. Take the lumps, and you will very likely make good progress. I wish you good luck.

I have sent one to Zachary Fowler, winner of History channels Alone season 3. One for Shane Curran of The Late Boy Scout. And one to Chris Thorn of Drop Forged Survival. My video is just the initial video for Kickstarter. Thank you for being reasonable and offering up helpful suggestions

 

[Caleb Fechner]

As for my techniques.... since they are a topic of controversy, I will list the places I learned them in the order they are in the video.
Knife in stump - Living Survival
Reverse hand - Gideon's Tactical
Feathering - MCQBushcraft
Batoning - David Canterbury

 

[danbot]

Neither myself nor my father have that type funds just lying around... "Only $10,000" Maybe I myself will be able to utter that statement one day, but today is not that day.

I didn't figure you had that kind of funds lying around, That's why I suggested you consider a loan. I also realize that may not be do-able for you and your father, just thought I'd float the idea to you. I and quite a few others here have been looking for an EDC fixed blade on the small side of the spectrum recently. Your knife looks to meet those parameters quite nicely, but most of us have aversions to paying for knives that don't exist yet. Let's just say there have been problems in the past.
Again, just some things to think about. The more "hard" questions you have answers to, the better!
Good luck to ya!

 

[craytab]

Since you obviously don't understand, I will explain it to you. A loan would require me too pay back the money every month with INTEREST, that means I would have to sell a certain amount of stock in order to do that. I'm basically using Kickstarter to take a pre order...

I understand exactly what taking out a loan means. I also fully understand what can go wrong with taking payment for an item that does not exist. You are asking your customers to bear the risk rather than yourself.

I'll say this again, in the interest of trying to help you. Take a step back and look around the forum. Read a bunch. Do your research about this community if you are really interested in participating and possibly selling here.

Take a look at this subforum: https://www.bladeforums.com/forums/feedback-the-good-the-bad-the-ugly.699/ This is the GB&U. It is full of mostly bad and ugly interactions between members and/or with makers or companies. One thing you will hear over and over again is to not pay up front. We have seen that happen over and over again and not go well. This is something, that if you really want to get into making knives, you must understand. The hardest knife to make is the one you've already bean paid for.

Start small. Make a few knives and sell them. Reinvest. Make more. Rinse and repeat. Or take an actual loan out, although I wouldn't recommend that, because if you fail you are screwed. That said, asking others invest in you with no real recourse is a worse idea and is one of the reasons you are receiving so much flack. In the end, don't spend money you do not have.

 

[gazz98]

Welcome to the forums Caleb.

1. At the top of many forums, there is a posted Rules thread and Frequently asked questions thread. Those would be a good place to start.
2. In the upper right hand corner of the site is a search function, it is your friend.
3. Take several minutes and look over all the various forums and subforums. If you want knife making advice, ask the pro's here.
https://www.bladeforums.com/categories/general-knife-makers-discussion.806/

 

[Pilsner]

I understand exactly what taking out a loan means. I also fully understand what can go wrong with taking payment for an item that does not exist. You are asking your customers to bear the risk rather than yourself.

I'll say this again, in the interest of trying to help you. Take a step back and look around the forum. Read a bunch. Do your research about this community if you are really interested in participating and possibly selling here.

Take a look at this subforum: https://www.bladeforums.com/forums/feedback-the-good-the-bad-the-ugly.699/ This is the GB&U. It is full of mostly bad and ugly interactions between members and/or with makers or companies. One thing you will hear over and over again is to not pay up front. We have seen that happen over and over again and not go well. This is something, that if you really want to get into making knives, you must understand. The hardest knife to make is the one you've already bean paid for.

Start small. Make a few knives and sell them. Reinvest. Make more. Rinse and repeat. Or take an actual loan out, although I wouldn't recommend that, because if you fail you are screwed. That said, asking others invest in you with no real recourse is a worse idea and is one of the reasons you are receiving so much flack. In the end, don't spend money you do not have.

^ This.

It’s old fashioned advice, but getting a part time job and saving for your start up would work well too.

 

[Andy the Aussie]

Neither myself nor my father have that type funds just lying around... "Only $10,000" Maybe I myself will be able to utter that statement one day, but today is not that day.

..... firstly let me say welcome to BF. This IS a great place for people to come and learn about all facets of knives (use, maintenance, modification and manufacture) there is an available depth of knowledge here you will not find in many other places. But yes it can (as you have discovered) be rough and tumble. You need to think of it this way to a degree, if you walked into a room of 100 people of all ages, walks of life, life experiences, knowledge, skill and personality and this group did happen to share a single common interest and you start off on THAT subject, do you think you may also have got some push back in that room, some questions and critique of YOUR opinions ? That my friend is just what has happened to you. It is called "life" and it happens. Don't let that put you off but also understand that while you think you may know a lot about a subject "life" will teach you that when you do it will then be that moment you meet the person who knows more and hands some of your opinions back to you in a garbage bag. It has happened, I would suggest, to about everyone at some point, you are very lucky if this is the first.

Your age does you no favours in this argument, I don't say that to be a prick, simply stating a fact here, you talk about "years of experience using cutlery" (to paraphrase) but think about this statement for a moment, some of the people to who you use this as a supporting statement, have been using knives and edged tools several times over the years you have been around, it is an argument that goes to credibility and maturity, you have a way to go to build on both (again, not being a prick- though I understand it sounds that way - just trying to open your eyes a little) but that is in your reach.

Now to asking for money, that is what probably earned you the swift kick in the sack ! Think of that room of 100 people we mentioned before, now walk in there and have the first statement you make be "hey I want to make knives, here are some pics of me using a couple I have already, you guys give me some money so I can and all going well I may give you a knife later on". Just digest that for a moment and think, now do you believe that some of the people in that room would have some pretty pointed questions for you ? I do, and I certainly would if i were in that room. That is almost what has happened with you here. Now to the $; "kickstarter", "crowd funding" etc are all the rage and they are so for a number of reasons, mostly because they shift the risk from the person with the proposal (in this case that is you) to the people contributing the $s. If you take the emotion of how much you want this to succeed to the clinical facts that you are asking a group of strangers to (essentially) give you money with no guarantee, you can see why the push back came. Your comments about a loan that comes with responsibility and risk (and you not wanting that) are obviously concerning to many, allow me to break that down, you are not wanting to personally invest/take a risk (beyond your time and enthusiasm) in this project - the question is then why are you asking others to ? You don't want to pay interest on the "loan", then in effect how are you going to compensate you "investors" ? They will want a knife in return for $X or similar, that may end up costing you $s if your production costs exceed what you believe etc.

You shy at the mention of $10K, me too. However, how much do you think it will take to set up and produce your knife ? How many do you have to sell to recoup your initial investment so as you start to turn a profit ? What do you think the final retail price of your blade will be ? Have you looked at the market to see who you are competing with ? And if so can you compete with them (price/quality/production wise).

All that said, it is not a bad looking blade, there will be plenty of people who think so and who would buy one at a given price point.

One final word of advice, and you don't know me from Adam, purely using the internet as a skill reference and justification is never going to stand you in good stead. You need to get out and make your own way and apply your own learnings/experience. The techniques you demonstrate in your video are questionable but may be applicable in certain circumstances, what does not help is that your own execution of them (in a marketing tool) certainly looks awkward and unpracticed.

There is a huge wealth of knowledge here to be had, you have some of the worlds best custom makers and manufacturers represented here and many will actually take the time to answer your questions, if you take the time to read lots of what is already available and learn a little so you know what the question to ask is.

Good luck with your endeavour, your interest and personal investment in this is most commendable.

 

[Pilsner]

..... firstly let me say welcome to BF. This IS a great place for people to come and learn about all facets of knives (use, maintenance, modification and manufacture) there is an available depth of knowledge here you will not find in many other places. But yes it can (as you have discovered) be rough and tumble. You need to think of it this way to a degree, if you walked into a room of 100 people of all ages, walks of life, life experiences, knowledge, skill and personality and this group did happen to share a single common interest and you start off on THAT subject, do you think you may also have got some push back in that room, some questions and critique of YOUR opinions ? That my friend is just what has happened to you. It is called "life" and it happens. Don't let that put you off but also understand that while you think you may know a lot about a subject "life" will teach you that when you do it will then be that moment meet the person who knows more and hands some of your opinions back to you in a garbage bag. It has happened, I would suggest, to about everyone at some point, you are very lucky if this is the first.

Your age does you no favours in this argument, I don't say that to be a prick, simply stating a fact here, you talk about "years of experience using cutlery" (to paraphrase) but think about this statement for a moment, some of the people to who you use this as a supporting statement, have been using knives and edged tools several times over the years you have been around, it is an argument that goes to credibility and maturity, you have a way to go to build on both (again, not being a prick- though I understand it sounds that way - just trying to open your eyes a little) but that is in your reach.

Now to asking for money, that is what probably earned you the swift kick in the sack ! Think of that room of 100 people we mentioned before, now walk in there and have the first statement you make be "hey I want to make knives, here are some pics of me using a couple I have already, you guys give me some money so I can and all going well I may give you a knife later on". Just digest that for a moment and think, now do you believe that some of the people in that room would have some pretty pointed questions for you ? I do, and I certainly would if i were in that room. That is almost what has happened with you here. Now to the $, "kickstarter", "crowd funding" etc are all the rage and they are so for a number of reasons, mostly because the shift the risk from the person with the proposal (in this case that is you) to the people contributing the $s. If you take the emotion of how much you want this to succeed to the clinical facts that you are asking a group of strangers to (essentially) give you money with no guarantee, you can see why the push back came. Your comments about a loan that comes with responsibility and risk (and you not wanting that) are obviously concerning to many, allow me to break that down, you are not wanting to personally invest/take a risk (beyond your time and enthusiasm) in this project - the question is then why are you asking others to ? You don't want to pay interest on the "loan", then in effect how are you going to compensate you "investors" ? They will want a knife in return for $X or similar, that may end up costing you $s if your production costs exceed what you believe etc.

You shy at the mention of $10K, me too. However, how much do you think it will take to set up and produce your knife ? How many do you have to sell to recoup your initial investment so as you start to turn a profit ? What do you think the final retail price of your blade will be ? Have you looked at the market to see who you are competing with ? And if so can you compete with them (price/quality/production wise).

All that said, it is not a bad looking blade, there will be plenty of people who think so and who would buy one at a given price point.

One final word of advice, and you don't know me from Adam, purely using the internet as a skill reference and justification is never going to stand you in good stead. You need to get out and make your own way and apply your own learnings/experience. The techniques you demonstrate in your video are questionable but may be applicable in certain circumstances, what does not help is that your own execution of them (in a marketing tool) certainly looks awkward and unpracticed.

There is a huge wealth of knowledge here to be had, you have some of the worlds best custom makers and manufacturers represented here and many will actually take the time to answer your questions, if you take the time to read lots of what is already available and learn a little so you know what the question to ask is.

Good luck with your endeavour, your interest and personal investment in this is most commendable.

Very well said.