The latest Ganzo Firebird D2 knives

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Chronovore said:
It keeps getting brought up because their FH line of knives offer original designs, decent materials, and reasonably good fit and finish relative to a $20-something price tag. Compared to a lot of similarly priced knives in 8Cr13Mov (or worse), these knives can be an awesome bargain for people in certain situations.

As far as any "odds", independent tests have confirmed that Ganzo's FH knives use Chinese D2 at hardness levels north of 60 HRC. Now, that doesn't mean that they'll perform as well as American-made knives in D2 that cost several times as much. However, they have performed as well as some other Chinese D2 knives from companies such as Steel Will in various cut tests.

I tend to prefer my Civivi, Bestech, and Kizer knives for EDC. However, I do have an FH11 and I have carried it. I got it on a lark for dirty/hard use, and to see just how bad it would be. I was surprised. The action is decent. Lock-up is still solid after more than a year. The blade came very sharp and holds up far better than similarly priced knives I've had in 8Cr13Mov.
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Are those the same independent tests that were shown to be fundamentally flawed when it came to the Lion Steel slipjoints?
 
Chronovore said:
Well, I'm a part of this forum and that's my stance on it. I think my perspective is valid. I took the time to share it in a new thread where somebody asked. You responded to my post but you didn't actually discuss anything I said in any detail or share anything even remotely interesting about it.

The OP alluded to the storm of hate that pours forth whenever anyone mentions Ganzo. We all get it because you "repeat the same spiel over and over again". The difference is that you don't do it with any degree of time, effort, detail, or civil generosity to the slightest possibility that any other perspective might have the tiniest bit of merit. Frankly, it's tiresome. Is it even worth asking whether you read my previous post before responding?
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Look, the forum's official stance on clones is clear. Disagree all you want but the opinion here is you are wrong. It's okay, people hold opinions that are wrong all the time. Go somewhere else and your opinion might be right, there. Voice your opinion here, be prepared to here why it is wrong. Simple :)

This does get tiresome. Why some of you persist in promoting these things even though you know the response, I don't understand.

On your last point, it's not worth me repeating everything I've said on this subject for you. I've got a lot of posts covering years of this sort of thing. If you feel somehow in need in hearing me talk more, there's always the search function. :D
 
First : don't back up Ganzo with other Chinese brands which are (as far as I know) legit. Second : American knives made with American D2 do not cost several times as much (a few bucks more, that's all). Third : obviously a blade in D2 will hold its edge longer than a blade made out of 8Cr13Mov. No discussion about that and not a point for Ganzo. Fourth : there are awesome bargains out there witch don't imply supporting thieves (thieves like Ganzo).
Now, I just wanted to answer you point by point. I have no problem in you enjoying the knives you buy. But none of the points you made make Ganzo less of a dishonest, thieving, faking brand.
 
vwb563 said:
I shamefully admit I own one Ganzo.
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Nothing to be shameful about. Lots of folks end up with these knives for various reasons, mostly when new and not knowing any better. That's why it is important for us here to teach those that don't know, the truly destructive nature of the cloners. I started with a few ganzos. Bladeforums.com, with its knowledgeable members and moderators (plus the HPIC), was instrumental in setting me on the right path to enjoying this hobby in an honest way.

Where there is shame, is knowing the truth and still supporting cloners.
 
Ebenvoila said:
Take a look at this:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OepNr_D4lqbdTFqdqWl1rmAd4bOzPzJe6J0iEWrdJGU/edit#gid=0
and this:
Watch it, it's really interesting!
I discovered these tests yesterday.
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I've seen them. I've also seen how they got a series of tests so incredibly wrong on the M390 in Lionsteel slipjoints that they were forced to issue an apology to both the dealer and manufacturer. Suffice it to say that at this point I don't think those tests are worth the electrons it took to type this message.
 
craytab said:
Look, the forum's official stance on clones is clear. Disagree all you want but the opinion here is you are wrong. It's okay, people hold opinions that are wrong all the time. Go somewhere else and your opinion might be right, there. Voice your opinion here, be prepared to here why it is wrong. Simple :)

This does get tiresome. Why some of you persist in promoting these things even though you know the response, I don't understand.

On your last point, it's not worth me repeating everything I've said on this subject for you. I've got a lot of posts covering years of this sort of thing. If you feel somehow in need in hearing me talk more, there's always the search function. :D
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As I said in my initial post on this here, I think your opinion is reasonable. I just think it's narrow and that it ignores some facts about the world. (Those facts are discussed in my first post.)

I'm really not interested in defending clones. However, I am interested in Ganzo's original designs and I'd like to see their company continue to move in a positive direction. I'm taking a stand here because when I see this cascade of hate on the hobby's premier forum, I see a barrier to that happening. I see people taking a hard, zealous, black-and-white position based on a limited view of the situation and for what purpose? What is the goal here?

So we have a company that got big making clones; not outright counterfeits with fake stamps but clones and mashups of existing designs. We have the benefit of knowing some of their history, which we rarely do as far as Chinese manufacturing goes. So now they are investing in making "legitimate", original knives. Should those efforts be punished and to what end? The justification seems fuzzy and the action seems counterproductive.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Are those the same independent tests that were shown to be fundamentally flawed when it came to the Lion Steel slipjoints?
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In my post, I refer to three different kinds of independent testing including chemical analysis for confirmation of steel identity, hardness tests, and cut-testing for edge retention. I don't have all the information on the particular incident you are referencing. How much bearing does that incident have on the three different types of testing I referenced?

To make this easy, let me clarify three claims:

1. Ganzo's FH series are made of Chinese D2.

2. Hardness results on Ganzo's FH series have been 60HRC and up.

3. Ganzo's FH knives have performed as well as some other budget knives in Chinese D2 from companies such as Steel Will.

Which of these are in doubt?
 
Chronovore said:
In my post, I refer to three different kinds of independent testing including chemical analysis for confirmation of steel identity, hardness tests, and cut-testing for edge retention. I don't have all the information on the particular incident you are referencing. How much bearing does that incident have on the three different types of testing I referenced?

To make this easy, let me clarify three claims:

1. Ganzo's FH series are made of Chinese D2.

2. Hardness results on Ganzo's FH series have been 60HRC and up.

3. Ganzo's FH knives have performed as well as some other budget knives in Chinese D2 from companies such as Steel Will.

Which of these are in doubt?
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Are these the tests by Luv Them Knives? Because in that case, all three. One of the quintessential requirements for independent testing is that it be from a reliable source and past errors have demonstrated that not only are those tests from an unreliable source, but they're from a source that is willing to make accusations extrapolated from bad data.
 
Once upon a time there was a post on the Spyderco forum that was fairly heated about Chinese clones. The living legend himself, Mr. Sal Glesser told a story of first going to China and having makers come up to him and bow and shake his hand enthusiastically and thank him for making such a fine product that they could clone and make a living off of.

Being the stand up individual he is, Sal was trying to get folks to see the situation from the other side and understand their point of view. That said, Sal wasn't excusing this theft and he pours tons of money into fighting what is assuredly an uphill battle.

Sal also famously refrains from speaking bad abut other knife companies and people but he said something to the effect of he did not care for Ganzo. And if you understand Sal, you know that's a curse-laden rant for most people.

Just say no to Ganzo.
 
You know what? I think that this discussion is sterile and not constructive, so I think I will check by myself, then I will be sure of the result! I will know if the results are of Luvthemknives are fake or not.
But I'm almost sure that they are not fake. And $25 are worth it to know who is right and who not.
 
Ebenvoila said:
You know what? I think that this discussion is sterile and not constructive, so I think I will check by myself, then I will be sure of the result! I will know if the results are of Luvthemknives are fake or not.
But I'm almost sure that they are not fake. And $25 are worth it to know who is right and who not.
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When it comes to Ganzo being a terrible company and that the official stance of BF is clones are not supported, then we're right.
 
Eli Chaps said:
When it comes to Ganzo being a terrible company and that the official stance of BF is clones are not supported, then we're right.
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I fully agree with this, but I don't agree with saying that this or this information is wrong because they just don't like it. That's really wrong IMO.
 
Ebenvoila said:
I fully agree with this, but I don't agree with saying that this or this information is wrong because they just don't like it. That's really wrong IMO.
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I understand and would agree if that were the case but it isn't. Some of us are saying Ganzo is bad because of their conduct, the quality doesn't matter. They could test better than a hundred other knives and it wouldn't change anything for us. Some folks are also pointing out that YouTubers such as Luv Them Knives created a HUGE issue here about one particular knife brand and supporting vendor. Only to be refuted by scientific testing so any videos posted from someone like him are considered suspect.

That's what people are taking exception with.

You do what you want but know that we want you to be educated about ho it is you're giving your money to. For me, giving $25 to Ganzo is a slap in the face to one of the most iconic families in the modern cutlery industry and I just won't do that.
 
Ebenvoila said:
I fully agree with this, but I don't agree with saying that this or this information is wrong because they just don't like it. That's really wrong IMO.
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Nor is saying that it's right because you want to believe it. Let's be entirely clear, you're buying the knife because you want the knife and you're willing to overlook the companies consistent history of theft and lies in doing so. Hell, I'm not even going to go so far as to claim the tests are wrong, I'm pointing out that both the testing and the source have proven unreliable in the past and, like it or not, that calls any and all testing they've done into question. Hell, even if the Ganzos they tested WERE D2, there's no guarantee the one you buy will be, because we cannot reasonably expect a dishonest company to act honestly.
 
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