The latest Ganzo Firebird D2 knives

[herisson]

You know what? I think that this discussion is sterile and not constructive, so I think I will check by myself, then I will be sure of the result! I will know if the results are of Luvthemknives are fake or not.
But I'm almost sure that they are not fake. And $25 are worth it to know who is right and who not.

The discussion is sterile because you're hell bent on that 25 $ limit and you will love any crap that fits in there. Note that many other brands (not Chinese, sorry) could fit the bill. But.... you chose to focus on Chinese crap. Constructive would be you broadening your search. There are lots of great knives to find out there. But the basic search term is not "cheap".

 

[Ebenvoila]

I'm not that limited to $25, currently I'm wearing a Kershaw Dividend, but not the composite version because of it's price, but it's a 420HC steel blade.
I sometimes prefer to use a cheap knife for some tasks instead of using one of my preferred ones.

 

[Puppadore]

Why?

Because we shouldnt talk about this topic. As usual, just put hand over your ears and yell “Ganzo bad! Ganzo copy! China bad!”.

 

[Ebenvoila]

Because we shouldnt talk about this topic. As usual, just put hand over your ears and yell “Ganzo bad! Ganzo copy! China bad!”.

 

[Ebenvoila]

Can you please tell me from which original knives these are copies? (Cause you are obviously more experienced than I am)

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Can you please tell me from which original knives these are copies? (Cause you are obviously more experienced than I am)

Is supporting a murderer appropriate because of all the people he hasn't murdered? I genuinely don't know that those are clones, but offering the occasional original design still wouldn't excuse the clones that they still happily produce and sell.

 

[Ebenvoila]

I would like to know which brands do knives shaped like this.

 

[Eli Chaps]

Because we shouldnt talk about this topic. As usual, just put hand over your ears and yell “Ganzo bad! Ganzo copy! China bad!”.

Every time it is brought up and opinions are shared is another opportunity for someone to learn or become aware. That's a good thing.

 

[not2sharp]

You are free to spend however you wish. Want a Ganzo, go for it. The company has a bad reputation and steels from other makers. I don’t really care about that; I care about them lying to me as a consumer, or failing to provide after market services.

n2s

 

[Ebenvoila]

That's for sure, for $25, no after market service.

 

[not2sharp]

Also, if they were a good value we would see them all over the big box stores. They are not there, because they lie to their customers and the retailer does not want to get stuck with the high volume of returns.

n2s

 

[Chronovore]

Are these the tests by Luv Them Knives? Because in that case, all three. One of the quintessential requirements for independent testing is that it be from a reliable source and past errors have demonstrated that not only are those tests from an unreliable source, but they're from a source that is willing to make accusations extrapolated from bad data.

Some of them are from or through LuvThemKnives. So is the theory that if he had anything to do with the tests or conveying information from the tests, that they are instantly without credibility?

Look, I don't know all the details of the controversy but I do remember a very emotional, seemingly sincere admission and apology by LuvThemKnives for making a serious mistake on something. Are people allowed to make a mistake? How about when they are doing something new and learning as they go? Even if LTK has joined Ganzo in being beyond redemption until the end of time; should the results be thrown out for every hardness test done by Kurt? How about the XRF results for blade steel confirmation?

BTW, my specific D2 comparison between Ganzo and Steel Will came from a cut test by Super Steel Steve.

 

[Chronovore]

To end the support of ganzo here. To help convince people to support legitimate brands. How is this so hard to understand?

Thank you for clarifying. Now let me help you out. Ganzo will exist regardless of your maximum effectiveness on this goal. The total combined influence of Blade Forums is unlikely to curb the global clone market. However, I do think Blade Forums holds a little influence over the portion of the market where Ganzo's originals are trying to exist.

So, thinking about areas where we do have influence, should we punish Ganzo for its investment in legitimate products and original designs? Boycotts work by influencing behavior. Sap the rewards for investing in this segment of the market and you will simply discourage investments in this segment of the market. Given that Ganzo will continue to exist and will continue to invest somewhere, where and on what kinds of products would you like them to be focusing their investments: clones or original designs?

 

[knarfeng]

Two posts moved offline.
You may post your own buying preferences. Do not exhort others to purchase on the basis of country of origin.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Some of them are from or through LuvThemKnives. So is the theory that if he had anything to do with the tests or conveying information from the tests, that they are instantly without credibility?

Look, I don't know all the details of the controversy but I do remember a very emotional, seemingly sincere admission and apology by LuvThemKnives for making a serious mistake on something. Are people allowed to make a mistake? How about when they are doing something new and learning as they go? Even if LTK has joined Ganzo in being beyond redemption until the end of time; should the results be thrown out for every hardness test done by Kurt? How about the XRF results for blade steel confirmation?

BTW, my specific D2 comparison between Ganzo and Steel Will came from a cut test by Super Steel Steve.

You're attempting to make this part of the conversation about moral failings and that has nothing to do with why we should question testing from an unreliable source. This isn’t about redemption, it's about science, and if you've passed on bad data, then extrapolated conclusions that weren't only wrong, but harmful that doesn't make you a bad person, but it absolutely calls into question everything you do before or after unless you're completely transparent about how you're correcting your methodology and even then we should still look to other tests to confirm your findings. If Luv Them Knives was an impartial source doing blind testing and reporting results mistakes would be much less of an issue, but that's not at all the case. Given that, the best thing to do is to, at absolute best, accept his tests as a single data point to be taken with a significant amount of salt and wait for confirmation from other, independent sources, it is certainly not to accept them as gospel.

 

[craytab]

Thank you for clarifying. Now let me help you out. Ganzo will exist regardless of your maximum effectiveness on this goal. The total combined influence of Blade Forums is unlikely to curb the global clone market. However, I do think Blade Forums holds a little influence over the portion of the market where Ganzo's originals are trying to exist.

So, thinking about areas where we do have influence, should we punish Ganzo for its investment in legitimate products and original designs? Boycotts work by influencing behavior. Sap the rewards for investing in this segment of the market and you will simply discourage investments in this segment of the market. Given that Ganzo will continue to exist and will continue to invest somewhere, where and on what kinds of products would you like them to be focusing their investments: clones or original designs?

You'll have to forgive me for not entertaining your rhetorical questions any longer this evening.

 

[Danke42]

Thank you for clarifying. Now let me help you out. Ganzo will exist regardless of your maximum effectiveness on this goal. The total combined influence of Blade Forums is unlikely to curb the global clone market. However, I do think Blade Forums holds a little influence over the portion of the market where Ganzo's originals are trying to exist.

So, thinking about areas where we do have influence, should we punish Ganzo for its investment in legitimate products and original designs? Boycotts work by influencing behavior. Sap the rewards for investing in this segment of the market and you will simply discourage investments in this segment of the market. Given that Ganzo will continue to exist and will continue to invest somewhere, where and on what kinds of products would you like them to be focusing their investments: clones or original designs?

Always happy to field a theoretical question.

We absolutely do not reward or fund Ganzo in any way shape or form.

Everything they make is the fruit of a poisoned tree. Giving them traction or encouragement just lets that poison continue to branch out further.

The only solution to a weed or a poisonous tree is to burn it down and dig up roods. You don't water the one clean limb and hope it spontaneously turns into something else.

A leopard never changes it's spots.

 

[Eli Chaps]

Thank you for clarifying. Now let me help you out. Ganzo will exist regardless of your maximum effectiveness on this goal. The total combined influence of Blade Forums is unlikely to curb the global clone market. However, I do think Blade Forums holds a little influence over the portion of the market where Ganzo's originals are trying to exist.

So, thinking about areas where we do have influence, should we punish Ganzo for its investment in legitimate products and original designs? Boycotts work by influencing behavior. Sap the rewards for investing in this segment of the market and you will simply discourage investments in this segment of the market. Given that Ganzo will continue to exist and will continue to invest somewhere, where and on what kinds of products would you like them to be focusing their investments: clones or original designs?

I never understand why somethings need to be so muddled. Why can't right and wrong just sometimes be that?

The notion that they're gonna be here anyway so why not steer them toward good is naive at best. I, me, myself personally does not have to in any way support a company that, when confronted by Sal and his crew at their display table to stop taking pictures of prototypes that were clearly marked "no pictures" and kept doing it. I don't care what new path they take or if they make a CRK level knife for ten bucks. Nope. Nada. I want nothing to with it. I can't change the world, but at least I can be content with my beliefs and choices.

I will also, when asked as it was here, share these views in hopes that someone may learn this history and hopefully opt out as well. If people choose not to, so be it, but they should make that choice based on an understanding of what that company is about.

Also, how do any of us know that Ganzo doesn't continue to sell stolen designs within China to bolster these original designs? I don't know if they are but it seems logical they would be. Maybe in India too. I mean that's what, like two and half billion people to market too?

For me, they are beyond redemption. Period. The only remotely possible way of moving past that would be a name change, but they aren't doing that are they? Now why would that be? Could it because all their stolen designs built them a recognizable name? Name recognition is huge in business and they don't seem all that upset about their past and wanting to move on.

Bah...

I will support @Sal Glesser without compromise and feel good about doing it.

 

[Chronovore]

You're attempting to make this part of the conversation about moral failings and that has nothing to do with why we should question testing from an unreliable source. This isn’t about redemption, it's about science, and if you've passed on bad data, then extrapolated conclusions that weren't only wrong, but harmful that doesn't make you a bad person, but it absolutely calls into question everything you do before or after unless you're completely transparent about how you're correcting your methodology and even then we should still look to other tests to confirm your findings. If Luv Them Knives was an impartial source doing blind testing and reporting results mistakes would be much less of an issue, but that's not at all the case. Given that, the best thing to do is to, at absolute best, accept his tests as a single data point to be taken with a significant amount of salt and wait for confirmation from other, independent sources, it is certainly not to accept them as gospel.

Not at all. LuvThemKnives is basically a review channel. There is a whole spectrum of reviewers out there doing different things. Generally, producing information about products for public consumption can be helpful. Some reviewers are more "scientific" than others. Cut testing with relative control, such as what we see from Pete, Outpost76, Super Steel Steve, etc. has value for comparing different blades in different steels. Two specific parameters that were not being widely tested were steel identity and hardness.

So LuvThemKnives stepped up. The guy is not a professional scientist. He is just a YouTube reviewer who stepped up. He got some testing going for things that otherwise weren't being independently tested. For whatever failings or mistakes, show me some other sources. Who else is doing that? You call those tests "a single data point" but in most cases, it is the ONLY data point.

Unless anyone else wants to do XRF testing on these knives, I'm inclined to believe those tests. The results have been very interesting. Especially with new or unknown brands, it's great to have some scientific confirmation on their claimed steel content. For instance, we can stop wondering (or assuming) whether Ganzo is telling the truth about their D2. In the absence of other independent testing, they are. Meanwhile, other companies such as Eagengrow have been exposed for putting D2 stamps on cheaper steel.

 

[Houlahound]

I really like the Ganzo folder with the big ass finger hole in the pivot.

Can someone point out an online retailer that sells the equivalent new in stock knife in another brand so I can support a more ethical company.

I have tried this myself but can't find an alternative retailer.