The long anticipated S30V Millie vs. Cruwear Millie edge retention test!!!

[Ankerson]

My post wasn't an opinion. It was asking a person who already has the materials to perform another test and share the results. Apparently that's not acceptable in your opinion.

Really, lets see....

Your conditions were 50 degrees inclusive and coarse grit finish while cutting rope.

That tests wear resistance. 50 inclusive is very obtuse. Now you should try 24 degrees inclusive at 2000 grit and cut soft non abrasive material and see which retains a higher sharpness for longer.

Buy the knives and do the testing...

If you test something you should look at what exactly you are trying to test. What was the hypothesis for your test setup conditions? What did you expect would happen under those or other conditions? One test doesn't give the whole story.

You are really trying to pick apart his test?

Again do the testing yourself....

Also did you do multiple runs to average the data? That's necessary to decrease error.

Really?

Again......

Buy the knives do the testing and share the results you get, invest some time, cash and effort... More than just typing a post in a forum trying to dictate what someone else should be doing.


In the end, the results are what they really should have been based on the method and cutting abrasive materials and the alloy content of the 2 steels...

So he really wasn't all that far off and the method seems to be solid enough to get the results that he should have gotten, that really won't change percentage wise enough to reverse the results either unless the variables between the 2 knives change making them different.

 

[The Mastiff]

Still have to get around to testing CPM Cru-Wear, have the Military in the box still waiting to be reprofiled and tested.

Jim, I had a feeling that would happen knowing what other things you had going on. Some day hopefully you will have the time and resources to add some of the other blades you have not had the opportunity to add to the data book. Sometimes life has other ideas on how we have to spend our time.

The method tests straight wear resistance so the steels (knives) will (Should) for the most part follow the carbide percentage right down the line the same as CATRA does.

If it doesn't then there is a problem with either the method or too many variables.

That's assuming the blades in the different steels are close to the same in blade geometry, behind the edge thickness and edge geometry to keep the variables down.

Abrasive wear resistance is so tied to carbide type and fraction that barring other variables you can pretty much tell in many cases where in the groupings a steel will perform. With your experience you can also usually tell when something isn't working the way it should. This skill I've seen lots of people try to claim , especially on you tube, but in your case it actually works. There aren't many steels you haven't gotten around too already. The very high performing ones anyway.

 

[WorkingEdge]

Thanks to this community and to Spyderco always pushing the envelope, it is amazing how a premium knife steel like s30v can get overlooked. I'm guilty of that. In the past year I have obtained knives in m4, xhp, elmax, Zdp, super blue, s35vn, s90, s110, cruwear, 3v, vg10, m390, 204p, k390, BUT don't have any s30v! Will need to fix that soon.

 

[Ankerson]

Jim, I had a feeling that would happen knowing what other things you had going on. Some day hopefully you will have the time and resources to add some of the other blades you have not had the opportunity to add to the data book. Sometimes life has other ideas on how we have to spend our time.

Yeah it's a real PITA, hopefully things will start moving in the right direction soon.

Abrasive wear resistance is so tied to carbide type and fraction that barring other variables you can pretty much tell in many cases where in the groupings a steel will perform. With your experience you can also usually tell when something isn't working the way it should. This skill I've seen lots of people try to claim , especially on you tube, but in your case it actually works. There aren't many steels you haven't gotten around too already. The very high performing ones anyway.

I don't really see too many surprises in testing.

Now I have seen some other test results over the years that surprised me because they don't make since.

 

[Sonnydaze]

Good work, Vegas... and thanks a lot. Very interesting to read.

A great thread. Very nice review; lots of work (I assume), lots of time (sure) and money also. Like Jim says, it's easier to expound (Whew!) on the keyboard than to put your words into action. I am appreciative of these tests, regardless of which steel wins...(I have a Cruwear).
Have read Jim's tests for yrs and give great credence to his positive critiques. You are all good guys.
Don

 

[Custom]

awesome test! thanks for sharing

 

[goodeyesniper]

the millie is a big but light knife. given a choice, i'd want it to have a steel that's polished screaming sharp, rather than rugged tough, or even sturdy-toothed. candidates are:

zdp 189
cpm 154
A. super blue
O-1
ceramic?

Being light in weight often fools people into thinking a knife is only good for light duty, and that heavy knives are "tougher". This is a pretty big misconception, and the military is one of those knives that prove it. The perfect, utilitarian handle and ergonomics are just begging you to use the piss out of this knife, and it will always keep coming back for more.

Granted, it's also a perfect candidate for a high finish for detailed cutting. Let's just remember it is not limited to only that.

Oh, and this test reminds me why I like my cpm m4 Millie so much.

 

[me2]

Just for squirts and giggles, and to properly break in the chef's knife/gyuto in the Hampton Forge knife set my wife got us for Christmas, I used the blue 8" blade gyuto to repeat the rope cutting above. I don't have any steels more advanced than 154CM, and I'm saving that for another test, so I used what I figured should be the most used knife in the house.

Sharpening:
The edge bevel was rebeveled to 17 degrees per side (dps) using a 220 grit Norton water stone. Following this, the edge was refined on the Sharpmaker medium rods in the 20 dps slots. After sharpening, the edge was very sharp, easily whittling beard hair and head hair with some effort. There was a nick in the blade, visible in good light, that was not removed. This was likely from use and washing in the sink with other stuff, or may be left from the factory edge.

Cutting:
I used a new roll of 3/8" hemp/manila rope purchased from Lowe's here in town, branded as Blue Eagle. I made the cuts on a plastic cutting board. Prior to testing with the rope, I made 300 cuts into the board with the knife in a slicing/dicing chef's knife fashion. This dulled the edge a little, but it would still whittle beard hair prior to starting the test with the rope.

I made sets of 20 cuts, changing direction from push to draw cuts after each set. After each 100 cuts I checked the edge to see if it would still slice notebook paper.

Results:
After 400 cuts, it still cleanly slices notebook paper. The nick in the edge got a little bigger, but is still less than 1 mm long. It would not shave my arm, nor would it whittle hair.

I'll probably repeat this just to be sure, and try to get that nick out of the edge. I will likely lower the edge angle to 12/15 and perhaps finish on the Sharpmaker fine triangles, just out of curiosity. Following the rope cutting, the edge was resharpened with 5 passes per side (pps) on a Norton Economy fine stone. This returned the edge to arm shaving sharp, and it would push cut receipt paper and split the side of a plastic grocery bag.