The new KSF Firewallet. This thing rocks!

BOOMSTICK said:
this guy shows how to make char cloth...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7uLVGrAt1M&feature=channel_page
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Thanks BOOMSTICK. Good find.

I was asking more for those who maybe interested buying this thinking it was a kit. For the flint/steel method, most sales are just the strikers for those that already know the method, or it is sold as a full kit with instuctions and a tin.

Not sure why KSF is including char cloth with this ~ what do you do when you run of char cloth if you don't know how to make more? Maybe they do offer instructions, etc, that is why I was asking.

I made the videos below for someone on this forum a while back showing how you can do this with many different types of high carbon knives, even the incredibly cheap Mora.

Since this thread has gone several different directions, also thought I would add that while friction fire and flint/steel are time tested methods of starting fires, it would be foolish to be solely reliant on such a method. Not suggesting that anyone here would make it thier primary, but it shouldn't be your secondary either. Fire is the most basic of survival skills; and when the time comes that you really need fire will be the time when using a primitive method will be the most difficult and bite you in the ass.

I personally don't go in the field without a ferro/magnesium rod, large ferro rod, matches, man-made tinder, and fresnel lens. I am probably foolish for not carrying a lighter. Just my .02.

Again, I think the flint/steel is a viable method and more than anything is an ingition method that provides an easy way to test your natural tinder bundle making/igniting skills.





 
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Bro, I don't think you are foolish for not carrying a Bic. Sure, I have made many a fire with a Bic, but I have also had them fail. Like CountryBoy said, a Bic is useless at low temps and High altitude. Add some rain and you are going to be cold, miserable and without the ability to cook some food. A lot of us in here are not warm, sunny day August weekend warriors. :D

As for the supplied char cloth, yes, there is a finite amount, but you have enough in there to make many many dozens of fires. The jute twine will run out far sooner...which reminds me. I also tried HEMP twine. It is far more coarse, but I have a few hundred yards of the stuff and it also works great....AND it burns longer by length used. Just something to keep in mind. I am pretty sure Jute is cheaper and is a great ignition source but hemp works extremely well also. :)

Your videos are fantastic too.

Jeff
 
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Get videos guys!

Char cloth is easy to make as the youtube videos can attest. I made some in the backyard using an old coffee can, a cut up cotton tshirt that had seen better days, and a gas grill. After 30 minutes or so, voila!

And I am going to get one of these kits-seems pretty handy to me. I carry a lighter and a ferro rod in my pocket, with matches and another lighter as backup in my kit.
 
TwinBlade said:
Like CountryBoy said, a Bic is useless at low temps and High altitude.
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I've heard this more than once, in fact it's in this thread twice. Maybe I've just been lucky but I've never had a problem lighting a Bic regardless of the temp, the altitude or a combination of the two. If you look at my location you can see I have a little experience with both. :)

Having said that, I always carry more than one method to make fire. The Bic would still be the first one I'd reach for if I needed fire in a hurry.
 
Sorry to those who didn't get that I was making a bit of a joke. I guess one needs to always add a winky face.

I carry a few things to make fires but a traditional flint and steel is not part of any kit I own. Nor is char cloth when there's PJCB's, jute, and all sorts of great manufactured tinder. As far as making sparks, I prefer a ferro rod. However, a Bic has never failed me yet.
 
Everyone should know how to make fire by friction, hand drill, fire plow, fire saw, bow&drill, then you don't need to rely on and modern conveniences that may fall or not be available to you. When you conquer making fire with out having to carry a kit then you have conquered your environment and are not a slave to technology.
 
BMA, what is a fire plow and a fire saw? This is actually the first time I have ever heard these terms.

Anyone else can answer too, I would like to know.:thumbup::thumbup:
 
Cool videos, I really enjoyed those. Thanks. :thumbup:

Seems like a lot of work though. I am gonna stick with flint and steel or a ferro rod. :D
 
bikermikearchery said:
Everyone should know how to make fire by friction, hand drill, fire plow, fire saw, bow&drill, then you don't need to rely on and modern conveniences that may fall or not be available to you. When you conquer making fire with out having to carry a kit then you have conquered your environment and are not a slave to technology.
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I love your posts but I must vehemently disagree with you on these points my woods-skulking bro. :D

This is 2009 and we do need to rely on "modern conveniences" when it comes to ferrocerium rods and excellent matches like the REI matches and the close second to them, NATO/British Lifeboat Matches. Add to that, natural and modern tinders, petroleum jelly, hand sanitizers and other fuels, etc.

One of the reasons I disagree with you so strongly is this, back when the fire bow and drill ruled the day, only the most dense of neanderthal or homo sapien did not embrace rocks with iron in it and chert. To them, a special rock and a piece of flint/chert was something more modern, non-traditional, etc., etc. Your argument seems to be a dismissal of the evolution of mankind, of the discoveries of our early ancestors.

You say people should not be a "slave to technology," that's not true. You are promoting primitive technology and it is a set of primitive technologies that will not save your life if you are cold and you are not carrying them - which leads to the vicious circle of these debates, if you are carrying them, you can carry something less bulky than all you mentioned and 100 times better! So why carry them? Further, why rely on something you have to build? If you are really in a life threatening situation the last thing you need on your to-do list is build a fire drill, bow, socket and base!

While the ferrocerium rod is the pinnacle of human achievement in spark-based fire starting, the Bic lighter is not. It has it's own issues and it's a mechanism. It's not exactly the pinnacle of firestarting although it is the pinnacle in cigar, pipe and cigarette lighting to be sure.

I think you have to know when some method has reached its zenith, the ferrocerium rod has done that with a nod to the newer misch metal as well.

Again, if you need a fire RIGHT NOW, you don't have time to screw around with all of those methods. Our ancestors carried them until something better came along! In other words, they had to! Some people might find all of that interesting, building a firebow, drill, base and socket is an interesting thing to do before you die.

The concept that a mountain man from the 1800s or some early human many years B.C. would not absolutely LOVE a Swedish Fire Steel is beyond me, they might have kept the others in reserve but they were a hell of a lot closer to fighting for every day survival than we are and I'm sure they would not romanticize about being a slave to technology. We're all slaves to technology in one way or another, it's not like there is a firebow and drill tree or shrub you can go pick these items from, they are "technology."
 
Look out, personal opinion looming!

I like the kit, but can't see carrying it around ever. In the same size wallet I can carry 1 bic, 1 box REI matches, 1 firesteel, and several fire starter sticks that will work with any method of ignition.

Flint and steel is waterproof? Maybe, but the tinder is not.

I have had a Bic not work due to the cold. It was -20F or so, and it was in the pocket of my snowpants. I put it in my hand to warm it up, and after 45 seconds or so, it fired up. Once I had all my material cut and sitting on the snow, I had a fire higher than my waist in 3-4 minutes.

While I like the idea of having the knowledge and ability, it is much like using hand tools to get a job done rather than using power tools, on the possibility that power tools don't work in some situations. If you had an employee that wouldn't use the right tool for the job, how long would you let them continue to work for you?

Personal opinion over, carry on.:D

If you are taking tools to make a fire for survival, make sure you have the right tools. If you want to go primitive, more power to you, but that isn't survivalism, that is reenactment.
 
TwinBlade said:
Denim works better than cotton shirts. :D I little trick I learned. try it out.:thumbup:
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I will!

As far as going primitive myself, I have done the fire plow to zero success, and built and used a bow drill with success. If I had time to putz around in camp making and using such methods, sure, why not? I can be a fun challenge or exercise. As far as wanting to get some hot food/drink in me after hiking all day or if (heaven forbid) I am in a survival situation-I'm using the stuff I have on me and that means a more modern kit.

I agree with Don that our forefathers would be all over modern conveniences, just as we are seeking to move in an upward fashion too. Otherwise, why are we driving cars? Horses worked well for many years, right? :D
 
I won't argue about the practicality of a flint & steel kit. The bottom line is, I want one because it's cool and would be fun to play with.:cool::thumbup:
 
I have one and use it purely for the cool factor.

I was really excited to start a fire with a rock.
 
Don Rearic said:
I love your posts but I must vehemently disagree with you on these points my woods-skulking bro. :D

This is 2009 and we do need to rely on "modern conveniences" when it comes to ferrocerium rods and excellent matches like the REI matches and the close second to them, NATO/British Lifeboat Matches. Add to that, natural and modern tinders, petroleum jelly, hand sanitizers and other fuels, etc.

One of the reasons I disagree with you so strongly is this, back when the fire bow and drill ruled the day, only the most dense of neanderthal or homo sapien did not embrace rocks with iron in it and chert. To them, a special rock and a piece of flint/chert was something more modern, non-traditional, etc., etc. Your argument seems to be a dismissal of the evolution of mankind, of the discoveries of our early ancestors.

You say people should not be a "slave to technology," that's not true. You are promoting primitive technology and it is a set of primitive technologies that will not save your life if you are cold and you are not carrying them - which leads to the vicious circle of these debates, if you are carrying them, you can carry something less bulky than all you mentioned and 100 times better! So why carry them? Further, why rely on something you have to build? If you are really in a life threatening situation the last thing you need on your to-do list is build a fire drill, bow, socket and base!

While the ferrocerium rod is the pinnacle of human achievement in spark-based fire starting, the Bic lighter is not. It has it's own issues and it's a mechanism. It's not exactly the pinnacle of firestarting although it is the pinnacle in cigar, pipe and cigarette lighting to be sure.

I think you have to know when some method has reached its zenith, the ferrocerium rod has done that with a nod to the newer misch metal as well.

Again, if you need a fire RIGHT NOW, you don't have time to screw around with all of those methods. Our ancestors carried them until something better came along! In other words, they had to! Some people might find all of that interesting, building a firebow, drill, base and socket is an interesting thing to do before you die.

The concept that a mountain man from the 1800s or some early human many years B.C. would not absolutely LOVE a Swedish Fire Steel is beyond me, they might have kept the others in reserve but they were a hell of a lot closer to fighting for every day survival than we are and I'm sure they would not romanticize about being a slave to technology. We're all slaves to technology in one way or another, it's not like there is a firebow and drill tree or shrub you can go pick these items from, they are "technology."
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You missed the point!!! You missed the point in a huge way.
What I said is "you need to know how to make a fire by friction" It is a skill set. When you have that skill set all other methods of fire making become infinitely easier.
Many times I have read here of how some one failed to get a fire going with there fire steel or other, and admittedly better, methods. I find that appalling. The failyer comes from not knowing how to prepare a fire. Had they learned the skills of taking a cold stick and generating a tiny ember then nurturing that ember to a flame, they would have had a skill that would have made starting a fire with a spark seam as easy as turning on a gas range.
40+ years ago I got a Boyscout fire steel. I wore a big notch in it trying to start a fire with tinder that would easily light with a match. Finley my Step-dad came over and took the steel away. Showed me how to make a bow&drill and how to prepare for the ember. Then we made fire. after I had made about 10 fires with a bow&drill I was given a piece of flint. Not a fire steel but real flint. Learned to make char from punk wood, Oak galls, and tree fungus. and how to anneal spring steel to make a striker. After I made a few fires with the flint I was given my fire steel back. That steel seamed like a torch! I put the same little Boyscout steel on my dog-tag chain and carried it there for 14 years. Very lightly used because I have a skill set learned from primitive technology.
I taught Marines survival skills for many years. I taught the Primitive and admittedly harder skills first. I wasn't trying to turn combat troops in to cavemen. I was giving them a skill. The skill carries forward.

I really don't understand how, when I advocate learning a skill, it seams to offend some people. I guess I'm just a "dense Neanderthal" Never ever have I ever recommended being in some way less prepared or leaving your matches and lighters or ferrrods at home. I have repeatedly recommended learning a skill. It carries forward.

I learned to drive on a ancient John Deer tractor. But I took my drivers test with an automatic. Man what an easy test.


(((You are promoting primitive technology and it is a set of primitive technologies that will not save your life if you are cold and you are not carrying them -)))
This comment really bugs me. Almost more than being referred to as a "dense Neanderthal" YES it will save your life. Been there done that.
 
bikermikearchery said:
You missed the point!!! You missed the point in a huge way.
Click to expand...

What I said is "you need to know how to make a fire by friction" It is a skill set. When you have that skill set all other methods of fire making become infinitely easier.
Click to expand...

They can become easier. I am interested in fire by friction for a few different reasons, I just don't consider them to be lifesaving skills except under certain circumstances.

Many times I have read here of how some one failed to get a fire going with there fire steel or other, and admittedly better, methods. I find that appalling. The failyer comes from not knowing how to prepare a fire.

Had they learned the skills of taking a cold stick and generating a tiny ember then nurturing that ember to a flame, they would have had a skill that would have made starting a fire with a spark seam as easy as turning on a gas range.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct that these people you cite don't know how to properly construct a fire! People come in here and say, "I don't know why people carry those magnesium firestarters, they suck! They don't work!" It's because they don't know how to make a fire.

All of that having been said, learning to properly construct a fire, how to lay a fire, is not exclusive to the fire by friction methods. You have made it so in your life, which is fine. My Dad taught me how to make a "one match fire" which means you properly lay a fire and one match will set it right off. It's the same skill and you don't have to use a fire bow and drill to learn how to do that.

I really don't understand how, when I advocate learning a skill, it seams to offend some people. I guess I'm just a "dense Neanderthal" Never ever have I ever recommended being in some way less prepared or leaving your matches and lighters or ferrrods at home. I have repeatedly recommended learning a skill. It carries forward.
Click to expand...

I'm not offended and I chose a poor way of expressing myself and I apologize for that.

I learned to drive on a ancient John Deer tractor. But I took my drivers test with an automatic. Man what an easy test.
Click to expand...

But you wouldn't choose the tractor to get you to the hospital in a life-threatening situation over something faster, etc. Would you?

(((You are promoting primitive technology and it is a set of primitive technologies that will not save your life if you are cold and you are not carrying them -)))
This comment really bugs me. Almost more than being referred to as a "dense Neanderthal" YES it will save your life. Been there done that.
Click to expand...


When you said we shouldn't be a "slave to technology," I simply responded that you were promoting a primitive technology. Do you not consider fire bow and drill and other fire by friction methods to be "technologies?" ALL of our ancestors were "slaves to technologies" and developed ways to carry hot coals, etc., these are all technologies.

I was also saying that if you are in danger of dying of hypothermia, you wouldn't be running around looking for the proper materials to make these things and if you are carrying these primitive tools, there are better things to carry.

I don't have any problem with anyone learning any type of skill like this, I just don't think it has a place in the realm of lifesaving. You also don't have to learn this in order to build a proper fire although fire by friction can be, as you pointed out, a good vehicle to show someone how.
 
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