Greetings All!
A few months ago, Jerry Hossom- http://www.hossom.com - and I were discussing optimal steels for fighting knives and swords. A fighting blade steel has to be: 1. tough- ie., able to withstand incidental blade on blade contact; 2. have good hardenability to attain a sharp edge that doesn't roll easily; and 3. decent edge retention. And it has to achieve this in a stock light enough that it doesn't move like a crowbar in your hand. I am partial to A-2 for my fighting blades because it demonstrates a good balance of these characteristics.
During the course of our discussion, the new CPM-3V steel came up. It has been touted as the next generation D-2- with far better toughness and edge wear resistence, terrific hardenability, and with enough chromium content to be not quite stainless, but close. It is even supposed to be polishable.
Well, Jerry was understandably skeptical, but being the open-minded guy that he is, he called and spoke at length with CPM's head metallurgist. Jerry was intrigued enough after their discussion to order some. Now, after working with the CPM-3V for some time, Jerry is convinced that this steel is superior in every way to ATS-34, A-2, and D-2 for fighting knives. It allows him to use thinner 0.165" stock- where he would otherwise have to use 0.250" stock of A-2, etc.- to achieve similar performance. Thus he can make a lighter, faster fighting blade than previously possible.
But, as we are so fond of saying, "It looks good on paper. How does it do out on the training floor?" That's where I come in
.
Last week, Jerry sent me the new Millennium Black Fighter in CPM-3V for serious testing.
Here is the test fighter:
Gorgeous, isn't it?! The grind lines are perfect and the blade is polished to a beautiful satin finish. The handle- like all of Jerry's handles- feels as if it had been genetically engineered for my hand, vat grown, and then surgically grafted onto the end of my arm. The knife is incredibly light- I have good fighters of the same size that weigh nearly twice as much. And shaving sharp? My hairs are terrified of it- they run at the sight of the edge!
The Stats:
Steel- CPM-3V, 0.165" stock. Heat treated and cryogenically stress-relieved by Paul Boss to Rc. 59-60.
OAL- 13"
Blade length- 8 1/2"
Weight- only 8 oz!
Balance point- Right on the index finger.
Handle- Canvas micarta scales.
Bolsters- 416 stainless steel.
OK, on to the fun stuff.
N.B.- for those of you as yet unfamiliar with my testing methods, I describe them in more detail in my 'Another Awesome Hossom Fighting Bowie' Thread @
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001214.html
and the 'Hossom Bowie Vs. Leg of Lamb" thread @
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001219.html .
Maneuverability- This fighter moves effortlessly, both alone and with a knife or sword in the other hand. It is faster than Thought! Faster by far than any knife of its size I've ever used. Spins, twirls, witiks, redondos, backcuts, whatever, are quicker than lightening. Outstanding.
Accuracy- The fighter thrusts and slashes exactly where I want it to in realtime- full speed, full contact- every time, against both my hanging targets and the training dummy. This fighter is even more accurate than the next generation Millennium Bowie is- which I'd honestly never thought could happen. This is probably a function of the fighter's smaller size and weight.
Ability to Withstand Impact- First I tested it like one would test the flexibility of a sword, by holding the knife at a 45deg. angle to a table the point down on the table, while I applied pressure to the flat of the blade with my other hand. This fighter has a nice tight flex to approx. 15-20deg., snapping back to true.
Next, I slapped it very hard- flat, spine, and edge- multiple times against the edge of an oak desk. No stress whatsoever to the blade. A nice tight flex that instantly returns to true and no damage to the knife at all.
Finally, the dreaded De Cuerda test- which has snapped several inferior blades in its day. This fighter is hands down the finest knife against the De Cuerda that I have ever used. The Bowie performed awesomely in this test- the fighter is better. It actually cut big chunks out of the rattan! I fought the De Cuerda full out- full force witiks and checks with the edge and flat of the blade to the rattan and the aluminum trainers taped to its ends- nooo problem! This knife has an incredible feel against hard targets that I just can't describe. It was not stressed in the least. And fast? The De Cuerda seemed like it was standing still! I can't tell you how many times I thrusted and slashed the hanging tennis balls- truly amazing. And the blade was pristine afterwards- not a scratch, rolled edge, chip, nothing. And it was still scary sharp.
Cutting Ability- Well, the De Cuerda results should give you some indication of how well this fighter cuts. But, onto the more formal cutting tests.
First, I cut a single hanging piece of paper. Each cut was perfectly straight and clean at any angle of attack with no snagging.
Encouraged, I hung a sheet of flimsy tissue paper. Again the cuts were perfect with no snagging whatsoever. Outstanding.
Next, I made a single layer roll of newpaper and stood it up on a table and cut it horizontally- this is a common test of the cutting ability of Japanese Nihonto(swords). The fighter transected it cleanly! With only an 8 1/2" blade! That's truly awesome. The CPM's thin blade profile and Jerry's wonderful reinforced-edge hollow grind did the trick.
Next, firmer targets.
First the training dummy- the fighter slashed, witiked, backcut, and thrust effortlessly through the dummy's thick(many-layered) ducktape "skin" and its "10 yr" foam "flesh" all the way down to the wood core. Every time. This knife laid the dummy wide open! The cuts were surgical, absolutely beautiful.
Next, the hanging roll of exam room paper- again, the knife cut all the way through the thick roll of paper and its cardboard core to the rattan rod underneath effortlessly. All in realtime.
This knife with its thinner CPM-3V blade cuts as well against these dense targets as the longer ATS-34 Bowie. That's impressive.
Finally, the Piece du Resistance- the Hanging Leg of Lamb test:
This leg of lamb came from the freezer and was only semi-thawed when I cut it, making the test even more difficult. The shank measured 15" long. It was some 9" by 7" at the top- its widest diameter- and 3" by 3" at its tip.
I hung it from its femur and took an exploratory #3 angle horizontal forehand slash about one-third of the way up from its tip. The fighter transected it as if it wasn't there- 5" by 4" thick at the cut- perfectly clean, no tearing.
Next, I took a #1 forehand diagonal slash through the thickest section of shank. It cut through 9" by 7" of fascia, muscle, and a 1 1/2 diameter bone, leaving the cut piece hanging by a 1/4" thick bit of gristle! That's tremendous!
Encouraged, I took a #2 backhand slash again through the thickest section of the shank- this time I neatly cut it in two- bone and all! That's incredible for blade this length. And through semi-frozen meat!
Finally, I threw several thrusts at the remaining hanging shank- the fighter thrust through the shank as if it wasn't even there- all the way through to the guard each and every time.
The blade after all of this was pristine- as if it had never been used. Still shaving sharp with no rolled edge, chip, nick, scratch- nothing.
This knife- with its thinner edge- cuts through flesh and bone as well as the larger ATS-34 Bowie. You feel the movement of the blade through the bone slightly more than with the bowie, but it is not irritating to the hand in any way. Nor, BTW, was my hand or arm jarred or fatigued at all after over 2 1/2 hrs of testing.
In my professional opinion, this knife will easily amputate an arm, and will decapitate if the swing is executed correctly.
The Negatives: First, this fighter's handle is made for a smaller hand than mine and therefore doesn't quite feel as good as the Bowie's. That, of course, just proves the value of having a fighting knife custom tailored to you.
Second, IMO the fighter needs a longer lower guard like the bowie's to protect the fingers more from an opponent's blade. Jerry is aware of this and will lengthen the lower guard in future fighters. And, of course, a double guard can be profiled instead for those who prefer that style.
So, what's my verdict?
The CPM-3V performed as well as we could have imagined. It is an ideal steel for fighting knives. Jerry Hossom's Millennium Black CPM-3V Fighter sets a new standard for fighting knife performance. It is truly in a league of its own. All my fighting blades from now on will be in CPM-3V. Yes, its expensive stock, and a royal b**th for the knife maker to work with, but IMO its so much better than even A-2 that it is well worth the extra cost. And just imagine what Jerry will achieve using this steel for longer blade lengths- where its superiority will stand out even more.
Mario
------------------
Gaucho
Tuvo muy mala suerte...se callo en mi cuchillo.
[This message has been edited by Gaucho (edited 02-14-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Gaucho (edited 02-14-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Gaucho (edited 02-14-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Gaucho (edited 02-14-2000).]
A few months ago, Jerry Hossom- http://www.hossom.com - and I were discussing optimal steels for fighting knives and swords. A fighting blade steel has to be: 1. tough- ie., able to withstand incidental blade on blade contact; 2. have good hardenability to attain a sharp edge that doesn't roll easily; and 3. decent edge retention. And it has to achieve this in a stock light enough that it doesn't move like a crowbar in your hand. I am partial to A-2 for my fighting blades because it demonstrates a good balance of these characteristics.
During the course of our discussion, the new CPM-3V steel came up. It has been touted as the next generation D-2- with far better toughness and edge wear resistence, terrific hardenability, and with enough chromium content to be not quite stainless, but close. It is even supposed to be polishable.
Well, Jerry was understandably skeptical, but being the open-minded guy that he is, he called and spoke at length with CPM's head metallurgist. Jerry was intrigued enough after their discussion to order some. Now, after working with the CPM-3V for some time, Jerry is convinced that this steel is superior in every way to ATS-34, A-2, and D-2 for fighting knives. It allows him to use thinner 0.165" stock- where he would otherwise have to use 0.250" stock of A-2, etc.- to achieve similar performance. Thus he can make a lighter, faster fighting blade than previously possible.
But, as we are so fond of saying, "It looks good on paper. How does it do out on the training floor?" That's where I come in
Last week, Jerry sent me the new Millennium Black Fighter in CPM-3V for serious testing.
Here is the test fighter:
Gorgeous, isn't it?! The grind lines are perfect and the blade is polished to a beautiful satin finish. The handle- like all of Jerry's handles- feels as if it had been genetically engineered for my hand, vat grown, and then surgically grafted onto the end of my arm. The knife is incredibly light- I have good fighters of the same size that weigh nearly twice as much. And shaving sharp? My hairs are terrified of it- they run at the sight of the edge!
The Stats:
Steel- CPM-3V, 0.165" stock. Heat treated and cryogenically stress-relieved by Paul Boss to Rc. 59-60.
OAL- 13"
Blade length- 8 1/2"
Weight- only 8 oz!
Balance point- Right on the index finger.
Handle- Canvas micarta scales.
Bolsters- 416 stainless steel.
OK, on to the fun stuff.
N.B.- for those of you as yet unfamiliar with my testing methods, I describe them in more detail in my 'Another Awesome Hossom Fighting Bowie' Thread @
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001214.html
and the 'Hossom Bowie Vs. Leg of Lamb" thread @
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001219.html .
Maneuverability- This fighter moves effortlessly, both alone and with a knife or sword in the other hand. It is faster than Thought! Faster by far than any knife of its size I've ever used. Spins, twirls, witiks, redondos, backcuts, whatever, are quicker than lightening. Outstanding.
Accuracy- The fighter thrusts and slashes exactly where I want it to in realtime- full speed, full contact- every time, against both my hanging targets and the training dummy. This fighter is even more accurate than the next generation Millennium Bowie is- which I'd honestly never thought could happen. This is probably a function of the fighter's smaller size and weight.
Ability to Withstand Impact- First I tested it like one would test the flexibility of a sword, by holding the knife at a 45deg. angle to a table the point down on the table, while I applied pressure to the flat of the blade with my other hand. This fighter has a nice tight flex to approx. 15-20deg., snapping back to true.
Next, I slapped it very hard- flat, spine, and edge- multiple times against the edge of an oak desk. No stress whatsoever to the blade. A nice tight flex that instantly returns to true and no damage to the knife at all.
Finally, the dreaded De Cuerda test- which has snapped several inferior blades in its day. This fighter is hands down the finest knife against the De Cuerda that I have ever used. The Bowie performed awesomely in this test- the fighter is better. It actually cut big chunks out of the rattan! I fought the De Cuerda full out- full force witiks and checks with the edge and flat of the blade to the rattan and the aluminum trainers taped to its ends- nooo problem! This knife has an incredible feel against hard targets that I just can't describe. It was not stressed in the least. And fast? The De Cuerda seemed like it was standing still! I can't tell you how many times I thrusted and slashed the hanging tennis balls- truly amazing. And the blade was pristine afterwards- not a scratch, rolled edge, chip, nothing. And it was still scary sharp.
Cutting Ability- Well, the De Cuerda results should give you some indication of how well this fighter cuts. But, onto the more formal cutting tests.
First, I cut a single hanging piece of paper. Each cut was perfectly straight and clean at any angle of attack with no snagging.
Encouraged, I hung a sheet of flimsy tissue paper. Again the cuts were perfect with no snagging whatsoever. Outstanding.
Next, I made a single layer roll of newpaper and stood it up on a table and cut it horizontally- this is a common test of the cutting ability of Japanese Nihonto(swords). The fighter transected it cleanly! With only an 8 1/2" blade! That's truly awesome. The CPM's thin blade profile and Jerry's wonderful reinforced-edge hollow grind did the trick.
Next, firmer targets.
First the training dummy- the fighter slashed, witiked, backcut, and thrust effortlessly through the dummy's thick(many-layered) ducktape "skin" and its "10 yr" foam "flesh" all the way down to the wood core. Every time. This knife laid the dummy wide open! The cuts were surgical, absolutely beautiful.
Next, the hanging roll of exam room paper- again, the knife cut all the way through the thick roll of paper and its cardboard core to the rattan rod underneath effortlessly. All in realtime.
This knife with its thinner CPM-3V blade cuts as well against these dense targets as the longer ATS-34 Bowie. That's impressive.
Finally, the Piece du Resistance- the Hanging Leg of Lamb test:
This leg of lamb came from the freezer and was only semi-thawed when I cut it, making the test even more difficult. The shank measured 15" long. It was some 9" by 7" at the top- its widest diameter- and 3" by 3" at its tip.
I hung it from its femur and took an exploratory #3 angle horizontal forehand slash about one-third of the way up from its tip. The fighter transected it as if it wasn't there- 5" by 4" thick at the cut- perfectly clean, no tearing.
Next, I took a #1 forehand diagonal slash through the thickest section of shank. It cut through 9" by 7" of fascia, muscle, and a 1 1/2 diameter bone, leaving the cut piece hanging by a 1/4" thick bit of gristle! That's tremendous!
Encouraged, I took a #2 backhand slash again through the thickest section of the shank- this time I neatly cut it in two- bone and all! That's incredible for blade this length. And through semi-frozen meat!
Finally, I threw several thrusts at the remaining hanging shank- the fighter thrust through the shank as if it wasn't even there- all the way through to the guard each and every time.
The blade after all of this was pristine- as if it had never been used. Still shaving sharp with no rolled edge, chip, nick, scratch- nothing.
This knife- with its thinner edge- cuts through flesh and bone as well as the larger ATS-34 Bowie. You feel the movement of the blade through the bone slightly more than with the bowie, but it is not irritating to the hand in any way. Nor, BTW, was my hand or arm jarred or fatigued at all after over 2 1/2 hrs of testing.
In my professional opinion, this knife will easily amputate an arm, and will decapitate if the swing is executed correctly.
The Negatives: First, this fighter's handle is made for a smaller hand than mine and therefore doesn't quite feel as good as the Bowie's. That, of course, just proves the value of having a fighting knife custom tailored to you.
Second, IMO the fighter needs a longer lower guard like the bowie's to protect the fingers more from an opponent's blade. Jerry is aware of this and will lengthen the lower guard in future fighters. And, of course, a double guard can be profiled instead for those who prefer that style.
So, what's my verdict?
The CPM-3V performed as well as we could have imagined. It is an ideal steel for fighting knives. Jerry Hossom's Millennium Black CPM-3V Fighter sets a new standard for fighting knife performance. It is truly in a league of its own. All my fighting blades from now on will be in CPM-3V. Yes, its expensive stock, and a royal b**th for the knife maker to work with, but IMO its so much better than even A-2 that it is well worth the extra cost. And just imagine what Jerry will achieve using this steel for longer blade lengths- where its superiority will stand out even more.
Mario
------------------
Gaucho
Tuvo muy mala suerte...se callo en mi cuchillo.
[This message has been edited by Gaucho (edited 02-14-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Gaucho (edited 02-14-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Gaucho (edited 02-14-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Gaucho (edited 02-14-2000).]
