Jiki
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What will we do about the zombies then?
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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
The next decade for Traditional Knives...words from the wise desired!
- Thread starter JonMcD
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Headwinds
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I think the problem is that so many of them are excellent politicians - they just aren't very good at anything else.
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I'm going to chime in here from the UK, as much of what people have mentioned has already happened here.
I carry what English law allows me to carry, a slipjoint folder with a blade 3 inches or less. I dare say that most traditional patterns can fall into that category.
Does that stop people in the UK carrying and using knives? No.
Do we still have cutlery producers? Yes.
As many as we did 100 years ago? No.
If I'm in an urban area I reckon I'd find virtually no one carrying any sort of knife. Yet, go into the countryside (I spend a lot of time in rural Yorkshire) and it's unusual to find a lot of the rural workers without a knife of some description. And yet companies like A. Wrights, TEW and Eggington still manufacture traditional knives; (I'll admit some are manufactured abroad). These companies have demonstrated little in the way of innovation or change and yet people are still purchasing their products. Their customer base surely cannot all be collectors over the age of 50; and I'll dare say that knife collecting is very much a niche interest in the UK anyway. So there must be an awful lot of folks buying their knives for the reason I have; to use them.
I'll expand to Europe. Have Laguiole, Opinel, Otter, Puma or Nontron gone out of business? Does the US knife owner require or demand something else in their knives that the French or German pocket knife owner doesn't? So how do all those European companies producing traditional knives survive, and even thrive? The answer; people are buying them, and those people cannot all be collectors over the age of 50. They must be users.
Age has been mentioned. Honestly, can anyone here say they are the same person they were 30 years ago? I'm 47 in 5 weeks; am I the same person I was when I was 20? No I'm most definitely not. The youngsters of today with their whiz-bang multi-tools will be the stag covered toothpick/lambsfoot/coffin lid bearers of the future.
So I'm positive that, aside from the appalling economic rubbish foisted on us by the western globalist political elite (and who can tell where that's going) that Case or GEC will still be going in 10, 20 or even 30 years times.
As to legislation affecting knife sales. I'm sure it has done in the UK but not to an extent that the remaining cutlery producers have gone out of business. But I'll make a political point as others have already done so. I sincerely believe that is not the problem many believe it to be (especially in rural areas). The western political elite who infest the political structure of the West is rapidly loosing it's grip on power. I sincerely belief that these idiots (for various reasons) will be gone in 20 (or less) years. After that whoever/whatever remains will have bigger worries than banning pocket knives.
So rest easy folks. So long as people have the coin in their pockets and the need for one, traditional pocket knives will continue. Does it matter whether their "more" popular than 100 years ago? Does it matter whether their "not as" popular as they were in 1952? There will always be people of whatever age who walk into a shop or browse a website and that Case elk bone covered Barlow will speak to them.
It's like my 16 year old nephew said when he first saw a Jaguar C Type sports car for the first time. After gawping at it for 5 minutes he just said "Why can't modern cars look like that....??"
I carry what English law allows me to carry, a slipjoint folder with a blade 3 inches or less. I dare say that most traditional patterns can fall into that category.
Does that stop people in the UK carrying and using knives? No.
Do we still have cutlery producers? Yes.
As many as we did 100 years ago? No.
If I'm in an urban area I reckon I'd find virtually no one carrying any sort of knife. Yet, go into the countryside (I spend a lot of time in rural Yorkshire) and it's unusual to find a lot of the rural workers without a knife of some description. And yet companies like A. Wrights, TEW and Eggington still manufacture traditional knives; (I'll admit some are manufactured abroad). These companies have demonstrated little in the way of innovation or change and yet people are still purchasing their products. Their customer base surely cannot all be collectors over the age of 50; and I'll dare say that knife collecting is very much a niche interest in the UK anyway. So there must be an awful lot of folks buying their knives for the reason I have; to use them.
I'll expand to Europe. Have Laguiole, Opinel, Otter, Puma or Nontron gone out of business? Does the US knife owner require or demand something else in their knives that the French or German pocket knife owner doesn't? So how do all those European companies producing traditional knives survive, and even thrive? The answer; people are buying them, and those people cannot all be collectors over the age of 50. They must be users.
Age has been mentioned. Honestly, can anyone here say they are the same person they were 30 years ago? I'm 47 in 5 weeks; am I the same person I was when I was 20? No I'm most definitely not. The youngsters of today with their whiz-bang multi-tools will be the stag covered toothpick/lambsfoot/coffin lid bearers of the future.
So I'm positive that, aside from the appalling economic rubbish foisted on us by the western globalist political elite (and who can tell where that's going) that Case or GEC will still be going in 10, 20 or even 30 years times.
As to legislation affecting knife sales. I'm sure it has done in the UK but not to an extent that the remaining cutlery producers have gone out of business. But I'll make a political point as others have already done so. I sincerely believe that is not the problem many believe it to be (especially in rural areas). The western political elite who infest the political structure of the West is rapidly loosing it's grip on power. I sincerely belief that these idiots (for various reasons) will be gone in 20 (or less) years. After that whoever/whatever remains will have bigger worries than banning pocket knives.
So rest easy folks. So long as people have the coin in their pockets and the need for one, traditional pocket knives will continue. Does it matter whether their "more" popular than 100 years ago? Does it matter whether their "not as" popular as they were in 1952? There will always be people of whatever age who walk into a shop or browse a website and that Case elk bone covered Barlow will speak to them.
It's like my 16 year old nephew said when he first saw a Jaguar C Type sports car for the first time. After gawping at it for 5 minutes he just said "Why can't modern cars look like that....??"
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knifeswapper
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I think most will agree that there will be traditional knives available for a significant distance into the future.
I have lived in rural farm / ranch country the majority of my life. My generation is currently picking up the reigns from the gentlemen that I came to know as a teenager in a rural farm and ranch store. Most have knives; but they have changed dramatically over the last 30 years. The current will offer no support to traditional traditional manufacturer's.
I have lived in rural farm / ranch country the majority of my life. My generation is currently picking up the reigns from the gentlemen that I came to know as a teenager in a rural farm and ranch store. Most have knives; but they have changed dramatically over the last 30 years. The current will offer no support to traditional traditional manufacturer's.
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I have one of those outdoor edge knives,they certainly appeal to those who won't or can't sharpen a knife. But its ugly,and has blade play. Definitely not suitable for tough jobs. But it fills a niche in the market. Personally I think some of the cutlery companies we've lost was lost due to poor business leadership. Look at Utica,maybe not as noticeable in the market as they once were but they're still around. Almost forgotten but still making knives,yep they make just a handful of traditional patterns nowadays. But overall it is a small portion of their business, they keep afloat making mostly flatware. They also have quite a few modern patterns,and a few other products. They may not be a big star player anymore in the cutlery game,but the point is they found a way to stay in the game.
JonMcD
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One of the reasons I originally posed this question was to see if any concern would arise about flipping and issues with the secondary market. Of all the very quality comments, none have really seem to pose concern there.
I have not really had a collecting hobby since going nuts over baseball cards as a kid in the heyday of Ken Griffey Jr. insanity. When getting into traditional knives, I was intrigued to see a hand full of models being aggressively flipped on eBay.
Being new, my curiosity grew on whether you guys felt this was a large or small issue on the radar of the upcoming success of the industry. Just wanted to make sure I wasn’t getting into an era of pocket knife collecting that was trending to become “beanie babies for older dudes”
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I’ll stay on course to buy what brings me joy and what I want to pass on to my kids - and I think I’ll be just fine!
I have not really had a collecting hobby since going nuts over baseball cards as a kid in the heyday of Ken Griffey Jr. insanity. When getting into traditional knives, I was intrigued to see a hand full of models being aggressively flipped on eBay.
Being new, my curiosity grew on whether you guys felt this was a large or small issue on the radar of the upcoming success of the industry. Just wanted to make sure I wasn’t getting into an era of pocket knife collecting that was trending to become “beanie babies for older dudes”
.I’ll stay on course to buy what brings me joy and what I want to pass on to my kids - and I think I’ll be just fine!
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Mike, what do you mean by this? The post baby boomer generations?
knifeswapper
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It may make more sense together with the rest of the paragraph than alone.
What I meant was that the local farmer/rancher in the 45-60 year old range that is now coming into the patriarchy in my area - if asked to put their knife on the table - would leave a table with very few (if any) knives that would garner much interest in the sub-forum. Blister pack knives or the occasional Bear made Moore Maker. Whereas their fathers introduced me to older Case, Remington, Bulldog, Eye Brand, etc.
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At one time, knife users and knife collectors / hobbyists pretty much had the same pool of knives to draw upon. And the community of users was not just people who needed a cutting tool in their daily work lives, but included the general populace of (mostly) men who were used to having a pocket knife of some kind on them, maybe another in the tackle box, glove compartment of the car, kitchen drawer, tool box at home or in the trunk of the car.
Sure, in some cases this would be a box cutter or utility knife, and still is. But would also be a pretty hefty variety of what was on the counter display at the hardware store, gas station (before they were convenience stores with pumps), sporting goods store, or five-and-ten.
These days, many of the same niches are taken up by modern-styled knives, and fewer men routinely carry a pocket knife for general utility. And those that do carry a knife, are still grabbing them off the display at the auto-parts store, at the big chain mega-stores and department stores. They are still inexpensive, basic cutting tools, mostly imported now.
In our world of increasing convenience, so much stuff either doesn't require cutting at all, or requires industrial hydraulic shears (clamshell packaging). Workplaces, which are only concerned about lawsuits, routinely ban carrying of anything, with a zero tolerance policy because it's easier for them to enforce than to say "Oh, this little Case Peanut is OK, just nothing big and scary looking." So most people just say, eh, I can live without.
So the user pool is dwindling, and shifting to other things. Collectors, on the other hand, are still around. That is Case's whole business model. GEC, too, for that matter. Both do sell quite usable knives, but they are not trying to crank out the same knives year in, year out, selling to people who use them regularly, and who only buy more when they wear out, break, or lose the first one. No, they both sell to people who already have plenty of knives, and who want plenty more.
So as long as there are people around who want to spend their disposable income on accumulating a lot more things than they actually need, and if those people's tastes continue in the direction of what we consider to be traditional knives, there should be a healthy market for them.
But there is some component of it that is based on those older designs being associated with memories of youth, or of shared experiences or memories of times spent with (generally male) family members. I.e., Granddaddy had knives like these.
Well, I am old enough to be a granddaddy myself, and the era of modern knives had begun when I was a young man. I still have a very nice Gerber Bolt-Action folder I got back in the early 80s, which replaced my Buck 110 on my work belt because it was a lot lighter. So theoretically, my grandchildren (if I had any) might remember that old black-handled, drop-point locking folder as "grampaw's knife."
So the question is more, what will the 20 to 30-somethings of the future feel like spending their money on, when their moms, dads, aunts, uncles, and grandparents were carrying those old-timey assisted opening tactical knives?
Sure, in some cases this would be a box cutter or utility knife, and still is. But would also be a pretty hefty variety of what was on the counter display at the hardware store, gas station (before they were convenience stores with pumps), sporting goods store, or five-and-ten.
These days, many of the same niches are taken up by modern-styled knives, and fewer men routinely carry a pocket knife for general utility. And those that do carry a knife, are still grabbing them off the display at the auto-parts store, at the big chain mega-stores and department stores. They are still inexpensive, basic cutting tools, mostly imported now.
In our world of increasing convenience, so much stuff either doesn't require cutting at all, or requires industrial hydraulic shears (clamshell packaging). Workplaces, which are only concerned about lawsuits, routinely ban carrying of anything, with a zero tolerance policy because it's easier for them to enforce than to say "Oh, this little Case Peanut is OK, just nothing big and scary looking." So most people just say, eh, I can live without.
So the user pool is dwindling, and shifting to other things. Collectors, on the other hand, are still around. That is Case's whole business model. GEC, too, for that matter. Both do sell quite usable knives, but they are not trying to crank out the same knives year in, year out, selling to people who use them regularly, and who only buy more when they wear out, break, or lose the first one. No, they both sell to people who already have plenty of knives, and who want plenty more.
So as long as there are people around who want to spend their disposable income on accumulating a lot more things than they actually need, and if those people's tastes continue in the direction of what we consider to be traditional knives, there should be a healthy market for them.
But there is some component of it that is based on those older designs being associated with memories of youth, or of shared experiences or memories of times spent with (generally male) family members. I.e., Granddaddy had knives like these.
Well, I am old enough to be a granddaddy myself, and the era of modern knives had begun when I was a young man. I still have a very nice Gerber Bolt-Action folder I got back in the early 80s, which replaced my Buck 110 on my work belt because it was a lot lighter. So theoretically, my grandchildren (if I had any) might remember that old black-handled, drop-point locking folder as "grampaw's knife."
So the question is more, what will the 20 to 30-somethings of the future feel like spending their money on, when their moms, dads, aunts, uncles, and grandparents were carrying those old-timey assisted opening tactical knives?
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I fear traditionals will slowly fall out of favor as those of us old in the tooth die off. Maybe not in 10 years, but in several decades there won't be many young ones that had a grandpa with a Case slimline trapper in his pocket and used it every time he cut an apple as a character building influence. Back when our grandpa's were still around, that's pretty much all you could buy at the general store were traditional slipjoints. When todays young fathers get old, most (albeit not all fortunately) of them will have likely carried a modern tactical of some kind if they carry a knife at all. I'm just fearful that over time, slipjoints will be in less favor due to the younger generations love of tacticals.
The only saving grace as I see it (political rant loading) ... is if those left of center get their way & knife regulations follow the same course as gun regulation, people will be forced to get rid of their scary looking locking pocket knives and gravitate to non-locking traditional cutlery, as is right now the case in England as I have read. So ... what do I know - there could eventually be a resurgence in slip joints if that comes to pass ...
The only saving grace as I see it (political rant loading) ... is if those left of center get their way & knife regulations follow the same course as gun regulation, people will be forced to get rid of their scary looking locking pocket knives and gravitate to non-locking traditional cutlery, as is right now the case in England as I have read. So ... what do I know - there could eventually be a resurgence in slip joints if that comes to pass ...
One of the reasons I originally posed this question was to see if any concern would arise about flipping and issues with the secondary market. Of all the very quality comments, none have really seem to pose concern there.
I have not really had a collecting hobby since going nuts over baseball cards as a kid in the heyday of Ken Griffey Jr. insanity. When getting into traditional knives, I was intrigued to see a hand full of models being aggressively flipped on eBay.
Being new, my curiosity grew on whether you guys felt this was a large or small issue on the radar of the upcoming success of the industry. Just wanted to make sure I wasn’t getting into an era of pocket knife collecting that was trending to become “beanie babies for older dudes”
I’ll stay on course to buy what brings me joy and what I want to pass on to my kids - and I think I’ll be just fine!
Flipping is just a part of every healthy collecting based hobby. If you collected cards in the 90s (like I did) then you probably witnessed a lot of pre internet flipping at card shops and shows held in the mall. I watched a guy at a Revco buy every box of 95 NBA fleer ultras they had and then saw him a couple weeks later flipping them at a card show...I don't recall what the hot card was that year....but everyone was looking for it.
Knives will sell for what the market will bear.
I think we are probably at peak frenzy right now. GEC really found their niche in the collectors market. Hopefully Bill wants to keep it up for years to come.
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This why we need to gift young people knives we like. Some will undoubtedly latch onto them,some will not. I'll be 41 in march and have no children, but my 20 year old nephew gets a traditional knife as gifts from me. He really like the 110 he got last Christmas. In March his daughter will be 1 year old, as long as I'm around she'll get traditionals when she's old enough. A few weeks ago I seen a 19-20 something young man pull a stockman from his pocket to open a bulk box to restock a shelf at a local hardware store. Looked like a Case but at the time I didn't have time to comment on it. I've also seen young well dressed Mexican men with a belt sheath with a trapper sticking out the top while at a large flea market I go to. I post allot of the pics I share here on imgur, and I get questions and comments. I often get questions about the shape of the one arm blade on my Case barlow and F&F Calfpen. Then I get an opportunity to tell someone something they didn't know about pocket knives. Maybe someone will give a traditional a try after seeing one of my post,I can certainly hope so.
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One of the reasons I originally posed this question was to see if any concern would arise about flipping and issues with the secondary market. Of all the very quality comments, none have really seem to pose concern there.
I have not really had a collecting hobby since going nuts over baseball cards as a kid in the heyday of Ken Griffey Jr. insanity. When getting into traditional knives, I was intrigued to see a hand full of models being aggressively flipped on eBay.
Being new, my curiosity grew on whether you guys felt this was a large or small issue on the radar of the upcoming success of the industry. Just wanted to make sure I wasn’t getting into an era of pocket knife collecting that was trending to become “beanie babies for older dudes”
I’ll stay on course to buy what brings me joy and what I want to pass on to my kids - and I think I’ll be just fine!
While I'm not a fan of the practice I also don't care. I don't get at all worked up about "flippers". They paid their money just like everyone else did or could have and they are now free to do with their property as they wish. If people wouldn't pay the inflated prices, there wouldn't be an incentive for the flippers. No one needs these knives so the only thing being risked by ignoring a grossly overpriced sale is some disappointment.
I won't engage them but obviously, many people do.
Now, if traditionals continue to dwindle in production numbers, I can see the secondary market prices increasing accordingly but I don't think that would be considered flipping. Just market response.
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It's an interesting hypothetical to ask a bunch of today's farmers to empty their pockets out on the table to see what they're carrying. Since globalization began to take hold in the '80s, it's no wonder the farmers don't have what their fathers did for knives. Heck, they'd be lucky to have any piece of clothing on them from this country. Gobalization has changed so much so fast.
We're a long way from a Case in your pocket, a Zenith in the living room and an Oldsmobile in the driveway
And we're moving further away from everyday people even needing knives, as some have mentioned.
What's become of us
I find it interesting that Mike says the industry (in the USA at least) just can't support the grinding / fitting of every piece anymore, esp crafting knives to the standard of us afficionados. I guess it stands to reason our Traditionals might soon be only available from Asia and Europe. The industry has changed and adapted just like we now see robots building Fords.
But who knows? Supposedly GEC is getting CNC equipment. Case might already have some. If this allows them to stay in business, here-here!
It's an interesting time to be a traditional knife knut.
We're a long way from a Case in your pocket, a Zenith in the living room and an Oldsmobile in the driveway
And we're moving further away from everyday people even needing knives, as some have mentioned.
What's become of us
I find it interesting that Mike says the industry (in the USA at least) just can't support the grinding / fitting of every piece anymore, esp crafting knives to the standard of us afficionados. I guess it stands to reason our Traditionals might soon be only available from Asia and Europe. The industry has changed and adapted just like we now see robots building Fords.
But who knows? Supposedly GEC is getting CNC equipment. Case might already have some. If this allows them to stay in business, here-here!
It's an interesting time to be a traditional knife knut.
knifeswapper
Knife Peddler
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Not really a now versus then comparison. The fathers are mostly still alive and carry different knives than the sons. Not because it is what they have had for 30 years - because they last purchased (recently) with a different mentality. One of the largest ranchers in this area was complaining that his Bear Moore Maker just couldn't keep an edge; so I gifted him a GEC made Schrade #73. He had it in his pocket every time I saw him and had a running count (in the high thousands) of how many calves it had castrated. It is that sense of disposable versus quality and modern versus traditional that was the gist.
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Yeah, the disposable mindset definitely has taken hold since globalization flooded our markets with cheap goods. We're all guilty of it in one fashion or another.
Nice gesture on gifting the knife.
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One of the reasons I originally posed this question was to see if any concern would arise about flipping and issues with the secondary market. Of all the very quality comments, none have really seem to pose concern there.
Being new, my curiosity grew on whether you guys felt this was a large or small issue on the radar of the upcoming success of the industry. Just wanted to make sure I wasn’t getting into an era of pocket knife collecting that was trending to become “beanie babies for older dudes”
It's certainly possible the secondary market for traditional slip joints is in a bubble state right now. But even if the resale value of our knives tanks over the coming decade, in my mind they will never be like Beanie Babies or a sports cards for the simple reason that well made knives are useful tools, even if no one else wants to buy them from you.
Regarding collecting, the best advice I've heard is to collect what you enjoy. Collecting as an investment is a risky proposition.
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I have a warehouse and employ 50 people. Almost every new hire has no personal pocket knife when they start we have utility knives available to cut things open they are kept in a box in a centralized area and must be returned after using. I have always carried a traditional in my pocket so anywhere I am located I can cut the shrink wrap or twine or packing strap without going and getting a utility knife and saves me time and sometimes a long walk. After awhile the people see the time savings and start showing up with a pocket knife they have purchased. It usually starts out as an inexpensive big box store purchase. Then you see a second or third due to the poor quality of the knives they choose because of the price point or choice they think they have available to them. That will eventually lead to the question I see you have the same knife all the time with you. Now is when the education starts with these people about quality and manufacturers and sharping. Not all but a good percentage of these people with a little guidance purchase a better knife and learn how to sharpen it. Some have traditionals some have modern flippers some carry and use both. Some think the patina on a knife is a badge of honor. In closing I do not think traditionals will go away in 10 or 20 years if us older people help educate the next generation.
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