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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
The Perfect Hunter
- Thread starter Will York
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2006
- Messages
- 386
Will, nice knives and a good solid design. I do like a little more sweep in the clip. This allows a little higher tip and a tad more belly. Just me--I also agree a sharp point is very useful. Every try to work out a cactus thorn with a semi-skinner or a drop point? Kind of lost track and wondered how you are doing. I had chance to test my blades on a Bison hunt (shoot) last year and this year on some Antelope. I like to carry a good all purpose hunter like your design, a small light saw and also a 6 inch fillet for the boning work in the field. The fillet also works out great for the rotor rooter task. Hope you get a chance to do some field testing on these in the near future. 10v is still a favorite--the datum I compare all others to-- also working with CPM 110V and also CPM M4 now. Phil
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2000
- Messages
- 8,888
Hi Phil,
So good to hear from you, and I'm glad you're getting some hunting time in. No surprise that you're experimenting and pushing the envelope with the newest CPM steels--I've known you for ten years and you've always been out there "on the edge". In fact, I think it was your suggestion that I try visiting Bladeforums in the fall of 1999 after I first contacted you about the 10V article you published in Knives Illustrated. I've been a member ten years this month, and without this site would never have approached my current, albeit still meager, understanding of steel, geometry and design. Thank you for that. I still have and enjoy the whisper-thin feather of a hunter you built for me in 10V as a result of our first conversation--truly a field scalpel and one of my all-time favorites.
Will
So good to hear from you, and I'm glad you're getting some hunting time in. No surprise that you're experimenting and pushing the envelope with the newest CPM steels--I've known you for ten years and you've always been out there "on the edge". In fact, I think it was your suggestion that I try visiting Bladeforums in the fall of 1999 after I first contacted you about the 10V article you published in Knives Illustrated. I've been a member ten years this month, and without this site would never have approached my current, albeit still meager, understanding of steel, geometry and design. Thank you for that. I still have and enjoy the whisper-thin feather of a hunter you built for me in 10V as a result of our first conversation--truly a field scalpel and one of my all-time favorites.
Will
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2006
- Messages
- 13,363
Nice solid design and each smith's interpretation of such is interesting.
I like them all, however Jason's would be my choice if put in the
favorable position of obtaining or using one.
Excellent job Will on your part and the maker's. :thumbup:
I like them all, however Jason's would be my choice if put in the
favorable position of obtaining or using one.
Excellent job Will on your part and the maker's. :thumbup:
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2005
- Messages
- 3,972
Somehow missed this thread, but want to add to the compliments. Well thought out design, and great results from all three makers. I have always favored the larger hunters, only with a full 5-inch handle including guard, and your design features make a lot of sense. Handle size needs to be as individuailized as the blade design. Hope to see other maker variations of your design. :thumbup:
- Joe
- Joe
Hi Will, i've got 2 excellent knives that were originally yours and i think, designed by you. a Paul LeBatard Long Hunter and a Wally Watts 4 7/8" Stag Folder. Both top notch excellent knives. maybe one day you'll pass along one of these !
I am surprised by the choice of elephant ivory. Yes it has the most warm smooth feel of all handle materials when dry. but is it not slippery when wet or greasy, both of which are always part of field dressing ? what if you drop it and handle strikes a rock ? does blood stain it ?
did you consider a laynard hole so knife could be 'secured' to wrist ?
i'd post pics of my 2 just to 'show off' but i'm away from my collection for awhile.
roland
I am surprised by the choice of elephant ivory. Yes it has the most warm smooth feel of all handle materials when dry. but is it not slippery when wet or greasy, both of which are always part of field dressing ? what if you drop it and handle strikes a rock ? does blood stain it ?
did you consider a laynard hole so knife could be 'secured' to wrist ?
i'd post pics of my 2 just to 'show off' but i'm away from my collection for awhile.
roland
MVF
Gold Member
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2005
- Messages
- 2,811
Thanks for posting this! I'm not a very experienced hunter, but I really like your design and love hearing the rationale behind each element- and having 3 makers takes on it must be pretty cool! Looks like three great knives, I think I'd like mine in CPM M4 and black canvas micarta.
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2000
- Messages
- 8,888
Thanks again to all who have posted for your comments.
Hi Roland,
Nice to hear from you. Good points on the choice of ivory and the lanyard hole. I thought about addressing both in my original post, but didn’t want to overload it with information some might find tedious.
I like lanyard holes, but over the years I’ve found on this class of knife I don’t use them. If I’m working over water I might use a lanyard for security, but this isn’t a knife I’d use for fishing. And it’s nice to be able to hang a utility knife on a nail over a work area in camp sometimes, but I’m not really comfortable leaving a fine custom knife where it’s exposed to the vagaries of camp life, including use by “unauthorized” persons. So yes, I did consider including a lanyard hole but decided not to bother.
I think your point on ivory becoming slick with blood is a very good one, and what’s good for me I wouldn’t necessarily recommend for others. If I still gutted animals in the traditional way, so the carcass could be hung to cool, I would shy away from ivory for the very reason you mention. Working inside the body cavity means working in blood that has accumulated from the fatal shot as well as other fluids, and bloody ivory gets very slick.
I grew up like most being taught to gut and hang animal carcasses to cool, but I don't do that anymore. I take all the meat off the outside of the carcass without ever opening the animal up, which saves time and avoids contacting the entrails. When my father was alive, he timed me one day from when we had a whitetail hanging on a singletree and I had first drawn my knife until all the meat had been removed and deposited in an ice chest. Twenty minutes. To me, that's progress. The only thing left hanging was the spinal column, ribcage, and hind leg bones, with the entrails still enclosed behind the diaphragm wall.
One thing I think may have gone unnoticed in my first post was that I always carry a 3-4" blade folder in the field besides a larger fixed-blade, and I use the folder for finer, delicate work. I do typically go in under the spine just behind the ribcage to take out the "tenders", and I've learned to do that blind with a pocket knife, so the only thing I don't harvest is the heart and liver--and of course the ribs. But the meat value of ribs on wild game is nominal at best, at least in my experience, which is why many states with laws against wasting meat now exclude the neck and ribcage from such prohibitions. This may be more information than anyone wanted to know—sorry.
Anyhow, when working to remove the meat in this way, I don’t deal with fluids in the body cavity and my knife doesn’t get wet. The handle actually gets a little “tackier” with the meat and fat residue it collects, and I find ivory feels even a little more secure in hand with that stickiness. Plus, as you say, nothing feels warmer or more satisfying in hand than ivory. For those who still gut animals the old fashioned way, however, I wouldn’t recommend ivory for the very reason you suggest. As to durability and staining with ivory, I haven’t had a problem with either other than ivory’s tendency to develop cracks in dry climate. Here in New Mexico that is a concern, but one I decided to risk on these two knives.
BTW, your LeBatard I bought from a third party and was not involved in its design, but I did “collaborate” with Wally on that big stag-handled lockback you have, and it’s a honey—glad you’re enjoying it.
Will
Hi Roland,
Nice to hear from you. Good points on the choice of ivory and the lanyard hole. I thought about addressing both in my original post, but didn’t want to overload it with information some might find tedious.
I like lanyard holes, but over the years I’ve found on this class of knife I don’t use them. If I’m working over water I might use a lanyard for security, but this isn’t a knife I’d use for fishing. And it’s nice to be able to hang a utility knife on a nail over a work area in camp sometimes, but I’m not really comfortable leaving a fine custom knife where it’s exposed to the vagaries of camp life, including use by “unauthorized” persons. So yes, I did consider including a lanyard hole but decided not to bother.
I think your point on ivory becoming slick with blood is a very good one, and what’s good for me I wouldn’t necessarily recommend for others. If I still gutted animals in the traditional way, so the carcass could be hung to cool, I would shy away from ivory for the very reason you mention. Working inside the body cavity means working in blood that has accumulated from the fatal shot as well as other fluids, and bloody ivory gets very slick.
I grew up like most being taught to gut and hang animal carcasses to cool, but I don't do that anymore. I take all the meat off the outside of the carcass without ever opening the animal up, which saves time and avoids contacting the entrails. When my father was alive, he timed me one day from when we had a whitetail hanging on a singletree and I had first drawn my knife until all the meat had been removed and deposited in an ice chest. Twenty minutes. To me, that's progress. The only thing left hanging was the spinal column, ribcage, and hind leg bones, with the entrails still enclosed behind the diaphragm wall.
One thing I think may have gone unnoticed in my first post was that I always carry a 3-4" blade folder in the field besides a larger fixed-blade, and I use the folder for finer, delicate work. I do typically go in under the spine just behind the ribcage to take out the "tenders", and I've learned to do that blind with a pocket knife, so the only thing I don't harvest is the heart and liver--and of course the ribs. But the meat value of ribs on wild game is nominal at best, at least in my experience, which is why many states with laws against wasting meat now exclude the neck and ribcage from such prohibitions. This may be more information than anyone wanted to know—sorry.
Anyhow, when working to remove the meat in this way, I don’t deal with fluids in the body cavity and my knife doesn’t get wet. The handle actually gets a little “tackier” with the meat and fat residue it collects, and I find ivory feels even a little more secure in hand with that stickiness. Plus, as you say, nothing feels warmer or more satisfying in hand than ivory. For those who still gut animals the old fashioned way, however, I wouldn’t recommend ivory for the very reason you suggest. As to durability and staining with ivory, I haven’t had a problem with either other than ivory’s tendency to develop cracks in dry climate. Here in New Mexico that is a concern, but one I decided to risk on these two knives.
BTW, your LeBatard I bought from a third party and was not involved in its design, but I did “collaborate” with Wally on that big stag-handled lockback you have, and it’s a honey—glad you’re enjoying it.
Will
Will, thanks for your most informative reply. did your 20 minutes(which for most of us would be more like 1-2 hours) include skinning first ?
i have de-boned and packed out quite a few times but have always found the resulting meat to be a little tougher. so if i'm close to truck or ATV, i prefer to gut and hang hide on for a few days. it's steep mountains here so what's above a road is venison, what's below are deer (or elk).
roland
i have de-boned and packed out quite a few times but have always found the resulting meat to be a little tougher. so if i'm close to truck or ATV, i prefer to gut and hang hide on for a few days. it's steep mountains here so what's above a road is venison, what's below are deer (or elk).
roland
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2006
- Messages
- 15,019
Will I can seee you know your way around animals.
The only time I gut is when I can not remove all the meat in a timely fashion
none of these sheep where gutted and all deboned and packed out at least the meat that went in my pack with full capes
Don't get me wrong all the local deer we shoot I gut in the field haul them out hang them in my nice warm garage and buthcher them in front of my wood stove. I mostly do this to keep the guts away from my house my dogs got a knack of finding gut piles and eating and rolling in them. The carcass is just an easy drag away from the house and I have an old sink hole on my property that I call the bone pile. Great for predator hunting over.
Again Will great knives and if ya ever get tired of that knight I now where there is a good home for it
The only time I gut is when I can not remove all the meat in a timely fashion
none of these sheep where gutted and all deboned and packed out at least the meat that went in my pack with full capes
Don't get me wrong all the local deer we shoot I gut in the field haul them out hang them in my nice warm garage and buthcher them in front of my wood stove. I mostly do this to keep the guts away from my house my dogs got a knack of finding gut piles and eating and rolling in them. The carcass is just an easy drag away from the house and I have an old sink hole on my property that I call the bone pile. Great for predator hunting over.
Again Will great knives and if ya ever get tired of that knight I now where there is a good home for it
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2006
- Messages
- 13,363
Great photos Joe.
Ivory can get a little slick under field conditions. One of the reason's I prefer Jason's version is that the handle shape and more the profound 'beak' to the rear looks to provide a better grip than the others in my opinion.
Ivory can get a little slick under field conditions. One of the reason's I prefer Jason's version is that the handle shape and more the profound 'beak' to the rear looks to provide a better grip than the others in my opinion.
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2000
- Messages
- 8,888
I've quit trying to salvage hides--have plenty of deerskin and elkskin accessories, and it's just not economical to pay taxidermy fees for a couple yards of tanned leather these days. So I take the hide off as I go, piecemeal, then the meat beneath.
A quick tip on quick-skinning a carcass if you have a vehicle available and can hang the carcass--make your first cut just ahead of the ears on the forehead and then down around the neck, then make your standard skinning cuts along the underside of the animal, along the insides of the legs and around the legs at the knee joints. Hang the animal by its horns or skin the hide back from the head with ears attached and hang by a loop around the neck snug up against the skull. Then tie a cord around the bunched hide right behind the ears (the ears are just for bulk, to keep the cord from slipping off the hide) and the other end to your vehicle bumper or frame, and let the vehicle do the work of pulling the hide off the animal. With two people, one can drive/back up and the other can touch any stubborn places with a knife edge as the hide peels back. Once the animal is hung and the starter cuts have been made, it takes less than five minutes to skin a deer this way--or a hog, which is my least favorite animal to skin.
It certainly does tenderize meat to hang it, I agree. I think fresh meat that hasn't been hung is actually better after it's been frozen--the freezing process tenderizes it. One more tip--the next time you bone out a carcass, try leaving the meat on ice for 2-3 days, continually pouring off the bloody water and replacing melted ice. This both drains the meat of blood and makes it milder/less gamey tasting.
Joe--
You put all my lifetime of hunting in the shade with those photos, pard. And don't tell me that's Denali poking up through the mist in the photo with the moose antlers--too cool! Congratulations!
I like your idea of using carcasses as predator bait. Another good use for remains I've found on private ranches is that if you have any problems with cross-fence poaching on a property, place butchered carcases on game trails where they leave your property right at the fence line. That will put a stop to game crowding the fence line and offering targets to "fence hunters" who aren't above shooting into your pasture.
Best to all,
Will
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- Dec 23, 2006
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- 15,019
No Will that was in the Wrangell's
Most my hunting has been for local stuff mostly deer and squirrel's and such . Huntings hunting and Ive elevated my heart rate sneaking around trees with my recure to shoot a groundhawg in my yard as much as I have any other critter.
Back to your knives . They prove a hunter can have some flare and does not need to be your standard blade shape it can have personality.
Will over the next few days give me a call would love to talk
Most my hunting has been for local stuff mostly deer and squirrel's and such . Huntings hunting and Ive elevated my heart rate sneaking around trees with my recure to shoot a groundhawg in my yard as much as I have any other critter.
Back to your knives . They prove a hunter can have some flare and does not need to be your standard blade shape it can have personality.
Will over the next few days give me a call would love to talk
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- Joined
- Jan 21, 2000
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- 8,888
I enjoyed our conversation, and was honored to hear you ordered a hunter from Jason based on my design. I hope you find pleasure using it for many years to come.
W
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