The Problem with Flippers: Thumb Hot Spots

They call them fingers, but I've never seen 'em fing.

I don't understand how even with small hands your thumb is finding it's way onto the back of the scales where that space is. What on the knife is preventing you from choking up your grip to the point where you can rest your thumb on the spine of the blade rather than that space?
 
I thought someone would relate to this issue, but I guess not. (I didn't expect everyone to shout, "Me, too!" but seriously, no one relates? Wow.) So be it. As a point of reference, though, my hand is very comfortable on the Manix 2 back lock version. My thumb can easily extend to the jimping, without strain. That's the kind of feel that I would like. I would rather not have to stretch out so that my thumb webbing is completely taught. But then again, maybe that's just what I need to do to enjoy one of these flippers.
 
We're not trying to insult you at all. Just trying to understand what the problem is. Perhaps it is the way you are gripping the knife somehow. I think even as a child I wouldn't have to stretch my thumb to the point of pulling the webbing taught to reach the jimping on the back of hardly any folder. It seems to me you would have to be holding the knife way down by the butt for that to be a problem. Still I don't know what your hands are like.

However I think that the knife is comfortable for most people. It may be that your hands are just not suited to this type of knife. Perhaps as suggested backlocks or other knives with fully enclosed backs to the handles will be more suitable for your uses.
 
I'm also very picky with my hobbies, but this just isn't computing Josh.
I also have a 562cf and find it uncomfortable to place my thumb there and cut stuff. In a 'normal' grip my thing sits on top of the blade.
Maybe a pic??
Joe

Josh G said:
T.L.E.: I don't even know where to start with your post. Did someone put a hex on your thumb? Yes, I have normal sensation in my thumb, but I am kind of picky about the way things feel, admittedly. OK, I'm kind of picky in general, but I do think a $220 (now $240) knife should be rather comfortable.
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I don't think you guys are insulting me, so that's not an issue. And Joe, I'd provide a picture, but I no longer have the knife, since I sent it back. I feel kind of embarrassed to buy it again from the same seller, so if I get it again, I'll just buy from a different vendor.

Thanks for your replies, folks. Guess I'm a(n extremely) minority opinion. It happens.
 
Josh G said:
I thought someone would relate to this issue, but I guess not. (I didn't expect everyone to shout, "Me, too!" but seriously, no one relates? Wow.) So be it. As a point of reference, though, my hand is very comfortable on the Manix 2 back lock version. My thumb can easily extend to the jimping, without strain. That's the kind of feel that I would like. I would rather not have to stretch out so that my thumb webbing is completely taught. But then again, maybe that's just what I need to do to enjoy one of these flippers.
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It's just a personal preference of yours. Nothing wrong with it. I don't like milled pocket clips because they're generally uncomfortable and tear up upholstery, but a lot of people prefer them.
 
Josh G said:
I thought someone would relate to this issue, but I guess not. (I didn't expect everyone to shout, "Me, too!" but seriously, no one relates? Wow.) So be it. As a point of reference, though, my hand is very comfortable on the Manix 2 back lock version. My thumb can easily extend to the jimping, without strain. That's the kind of feel that I would like. I would rather not have to stretch out so that my thumb webbing is completely taught. But then again, maybe that's just what I need to do to enjoy one of these flippers.
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This sounds quite strange to me too. I don't have to stretch my thumb at all to have it on top of the tang or blade spine, in fact the base of my thumb is right up against the rest of my hand when I grip a knife tightly.

Here's a picture of what my grip looks like, I could easily put my thumb halfway out on the spine if I wanted to, and as I said earlier my hands are on the smaller side for a guy. (FWIW I'm right handed so my left grip is a bit awkward, but I couldn't hold the camera left-handed.)

DSCF3119 by MaxArcherEDC, on Flickr
 
OP - I wish I could say "me too!"

Having owned two 0562 and one 0562cf AND with small hands, I honestly do not see what you described as a problem to me. What is wrong with the thumb resting on the back of scales, between which there is a space? It is not like your thumb is so thin/tiny that it would squeeze entirely inside the scales. Also, the cf scale mates perfectly with the liner such that together they are with the same thickness as the lockside ti scale. The edges of the liner and the ti scale are chamfered so they really do not "cut" into your thumb even if you push hard.

Am I missing sth? Oh yeah - half of my thumb is gone due to resting on the back of the scales of my ZT 0562cf.
 
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I just don't understand how, even with very tiny hands, if you are holding the knife so your forefinger is against the flipper your thumb will not naturally fall on the back of the spine where the jimping is. The flipper on the open knife is like a guard and my forefinger rests against it, in that position I would have to contort my hand awkwardly for my thumb to fall on the back where the space between the scales is.
 
I don't have that particular problem, but I found the 0562 immediately uncomfortable upon holding it and got rid of it. Ergos are important, don't use knives you find uncomfortable.
 
I have a feeling that IM just hit the nail on the head, at least with the 562.
Maybe that particular knife just doesn't for your hand as it should Josh.
IM hated that knife the second he held it, I remember when he posted about it. I'll bet that is the problem more than flippers in general.
Maybe?????

Insipid Moniker said:
I don't have that particular problem, but I found the 0562 immediately uncomfortable upon holding it and got rid of it. Ergos are important, don't use knives you find uncomfortable.
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Aaach! I just realized that I listed the wrong model. I meant the 0452CF, not the 0562CF. Does that change things a bit, or not? Sorry for the confusion (but then again, ZT didn't have to name all their knives just through this numbering scheme)!
 
Seriously, this sounds like something nick shabazz would complain about.

Perhaps you need a sharp knife- so you dont have to press your bodyweight into your thumb to get it to cut.
 
So I got out a couple of my open construction folders and adjusted my grip so that my thumb was completely resting on the back of the open frame. If I then exerted a lot of pressure, the meat from the pad of my thumb would squeeze into the gap between the frame panels, and sure enough, it was uncomfortable. I am a big guy, 6' 2", with proportional hands to my height, so that was not my normal way to grip a knife. I am a keyboard jockey by profession and so don't have the toughened hands of a person who works with their hands a lot, so maybe it's easier for me to replicate the OPs experience.

I also usually don't ever have to put that much pressure on a knife while in use. This was from me intentionally pressing down as hard as I could. I have never really noticed any particular thumb pain when just using my knives for normal cutting tasks (ZT 0560 and 0770cf used in this experiment).

I compared it to a Spyderco Delica with a closed back, and it was quite an obvious difference, applying the same amount of pressure with my thumb.

So I can see where, if you are doing some sort of cutting where you are applying a lot of downward pressure, with your thumb on the back of the open frame of a knife, that it could cause some hot spots there. It would also seem that if you use your knife a lot in that manner, that eventually the thumb would toughen up a bit and it would become a non-problem. You could also wear work gloves when doing a lot of heavy duty cutting work.
 
My hands are probably larger than yours, but when I grasp my 0452CF, my thumbs rest either right on the jimping or atop and in between the two scales like you mentioned. However, I don't notice any discomfort whatsoever from any sharp edges on the top side of the scales digging into my thumb. My thumbs are roughly an inch wide fwiw.

With all this said though, you should be using knives that feel comfortable for YOU and that you like. So if open flow-through designs (especially flipper designs) are physically uncomfortable for you to hold and use, then look elsewhere! There are plenty of great back locks out there as others have suggested.
 
My problem with flippers is that my thumb slips down into the frame. It's not uncomfortable per se but after some hard use it will get jammed in there. I sometimes have to lube it up just to get my thumb out of the frame.
 
As mentioned above, find a knife that's comfortable for you and disregard the peanut gallery. Ergonomics are personal and we are definitely spoiled for choice, so if you're gonna drop that kind of cash on a folder there's no reason to settle for something you're not satisfied with. For ergos that may be more to your liking I would recommend checking out the Cold Steel Ultimate Hunter. I find it to be one of the most comfortable folders I've handled and it's a very, very functional knife in general. On the other hand, if you want something a little closer in form factor to the 0452, you might wait for the Spyderco Police 4 to hit the shelves. Being a lockback, it shouldn't present the same issues.
 
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