The problem with 'survival' knives

bodog said:
A knife that's carried is better than one that's not. You can buy the biggest, baddest knife but if you don't carry it pretty much everywhere, everyday, it's useless. I'd bet SAK knives have gotten more people out of tight situations than Rambo type knives just because people actually carry them.
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Bingo, a tough knife does no good in your safe !!!

Every vehicle I have has at least a leatherman and a medium fixed blade. I try to put a hatchet, large blade or machete in all vehicles as SHTF setup. They are not used unless there is a problem, and I forget about them.
 
This is a very old argument.

"A word as to knife, or knives. These are of prime necessity, and should be of the best, both as to shape and temper. The 'bowies' and 'hunting knives' usually kept on sale, are thick, clumsy affairs, with a sort of ridge along the middle of the blade, murderous looking, but of little use; rather fitted to adorn a dime novel or the belt of 'Billy the Kid,' than the outfit of the hunter. The one shown...is thin in the blade, and handy for skinning, cutting meat, or eating with. The strong double-bladed pocket knife is the best model I have yet found, and, in connection with the sheath knife, is all sufficient for camp use."

Personally I prefer thin knives and hatchets, axes and or wedges made on site. Batoning wood to make fire is rarely needed in my area (Appalachian). Gather dead branches and separate them going from pencil led, pencil, finger, thumb, and so on. Build a fire moving up in size until you have a good coal base able to burn larger rounds. For dry wood avoid the ground look for dead standing underbrush and low hanging dead branches. You can knock dead branches from taller trees though this is dangerous IMO. This is what I personally do when making a fire in the woods. I'm not saying its the only way or even the right way. I'm simply pointing out that batoning wood is not always or even often required depending on environment of course (PNW for example).
 
I personally have total confidence with my Fallkniven A1 as my survival knife, it works for me. The A1 is a large hunk of stainless steel that can cut open almost any wood in the field, chip through walls, and work in any urban or zombie apocalypse survival situation.
 
Interesting thread. Imo, the most important aspect of a knife you want and carry all the time, use for any situation a in which you need an edge, is the comfort and quality. You can carry a large knife that is unbreakable, made from a super steel that never needs resharpened, etc, but if its uncomfortable to use or creates a lot of hot spots on your hand, how often, or will you even want to use it? Then you look at quality. Is it custom or large production? What's the makers reputation? How ergonomic are their knife designs? Thats the most important aspect about any knife. I really like Schrade and Tops knives. Not all Schrades are good but they do have some that are just awesome and work great for many tasks. Same with Tops. I like to carry a large knife when ever I backpack or camp along with my Coast folding knife. My large knife is a Tops Condor Alert. 9" blade and weighs in a 26 ounces. It chops and batons very well, comfy in my hand and holds a shaving sharp edge for a long time. I have even field dressed a deer with it and it worked better than my short 4" Tops Intercepter. Why? Well for one I didn't have to get my hand inside the chest or body when removing the organs, I just cut whatever was holding themnin place and used the knife to scoop them out, therefore my hands didn't get nearly as cold or bloody. It worked great to chop through bone like the neck to remove the head or even the hoofs if you wanted to leave the bone in the thighs and make steaks. I like large knives. , sometimes they do require more practice using them to make feather sticks or to wittle a spoon or bowl from wood vs a thinner smaller knife. Now as far as the "survival" aspect of knives, when one chooses a knife for any kind of wilderness use especially if the area you live in or frequent to is more isolated, the wildlife that resides in that area, thats where the size of knife comes to mind. Imo, a survival knife needs to meet my criteria like fire making capabilities, comfortability, edge retention, quality of steel and heat treatment, self defense capabilities, fine carving capabilities. Every one has their preference and techniques they use. Some people only carry an axe, but can achieve all the same results vs one with a knife. It all comes down to skill sets, preference, location, and the tasks expected to be done.
 
I think the machete might be the best survival knife of all time. A 12" Tramontina bush machete could handle many survival tasks. However, you can also build a shelter without the use of a knife and get a fire going with nothing more than a Bic lighter. You can use a fire as a signal too, to get you rescued. When I'm in big country, I always carry a lighter and my hunting knife and/or my 12" machete.

Another combination I like is the Light My Fire knife and the Bic. That gives you a knife for shelter building and 2 ways to get that all-important fire going. Finally, a lighter and a SAK with a wood saw would get you through a survival situation.

Joe
 
Frisky said:
I think the machete might be the best survival knife of all time. A 12" Tramontina bush machete could handle many survival tasks. However, you can also build a shelter without the use of a knife and get a fire going with nothing more than a Bic lighter. You can use a fire as a signal too, to get you rescued. When I'm in big country, I always carry a lighter and my hunting knife and/or my 12" machete.

Another combination I like is the Light My Fire knife and the Bic. That gives you a knife for shelter building and 2 ways to get that all-important fire going. Finally, a lighter and a SAK with a wood saw would get you through a survival situation.

Joe
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I agree for the most part. But having an axe or a quality blade can be more beneficial. Just last week, here in Nebraska we had freezing rain. Everything was coated in ice and about an inch of snow on the ground. A BIC lighter alone will not get a fire started. Its times like these is when you need to access enough dry wood to start a fire and get it hot enough to slowly start placing smaller sticks gradually working up to larger sticks or small logs. The fire has to be hot and stable enough to melt the ice and burn the materials placed on it. You can use a machete to baton some small stuff, but the machete was not designed for that. I used my large 9" knife to baton a 3"piece of round I cut from a large dead fall, which was covered in ice, batoned it down in quarters, then split those in half, split them.in half again, used four pieces to feather stick, which I had a large pile of feathers, then I just feathered a piece of fat wood, used my BIC to light that and thats how I started my fire. Once I got that going I then placed all the rest I split on the fire then I started to add smaller sticks which was covered in ice and in about a half hour, I had a good hot fire. The point Im trying to make is that a good hatchet/axe or knife in combo with a saw is most beneficial in areas that receive a lot of precipitation and gets well below freezing. If we're in the south American jungle, then different tools would be better. It all just depends on your location and weather and the tasks expected to be done.
I see your from Minnesota, so I know you know how different tools come into play, especially depending on weather conditions. I'm originally from Michigan so I know all about heavy snow fall, lol. In Nebraska we dont get as much snow but more ice and its always fricken windy here! I thought 0°F was cold in Michigan, well when its 3°F here, and a 40-50 MPH wind gusts, that -30 to -55° wind chill is killer! Never had instant brain freeze before until I moved here lol.
 
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In my opinion, there are many uses for a knife in a survival situation. Batoning is not one of them. I consider it extremely stupid because if your technique isn't perfect, you're risking your most important tool.

A survival knife can make a wedge that you can use to baton with instead. A large knife is useful defensively (bears, insane college kids who are 1/2 hillbilly, etc.), for breaking bone in game and for chopping wood and other things; I would prefer an axe or similar tool for such things. A survival knife doesn't have to be a beast. A stockman can make a perfectly usable survival knife. What matters most is that you have it on you.

My point is that you can use a knife for so much more than batoning; it's a silly thing to focus on. Just my opinion, YMMV
 
I think it's easy to get caught up in labels and terminology. Survival has become just like Tactical -- a good marketing term used by manufacturers to boost sales. Paint a knife black and call it something like the Navy Seal Bone Crusher model and it is guaranteed to increase sales. Its still just the same old knife painted black though.
 
I used to carry some pretty hefty knives on all my backwooods trips. Busse, Becker, MMHW, Lile, Crain, I've owned them all. It's hard to relay this through a post without sounding like an ass, but I eventually found them too large and frankly unnecessary. I will admit I had a bit of Rambo fantasy in my head when packing those hunks of steel! Don't get me wrong, I still like all the big choppers, but really cannot justify a need for them in my personal use. I can't fathom a situation I would be in where a smaller knife would not work just fine. If I broke a leg, got lost, or any other wilderness emergency, I don't think a massive knife would help me any better. The main thing is to carry a knife that you are actually comfortable using.
 
Kwon Kwang said:
In my opinion, there are many uses for a knife in a survival situation. Batoning is not one of them. I consider it extremely stupid because if your technique isn't perfect, you're risking your most important tool.

A survival knife can make a wedge that you can use to baton with instead. A large knife is useful defensively (bears, insane college kids who are 1/2 hillbilly, etc.), for breaking bone in game and for chopping wood and other things; I would prefer an axe or similar tool for such things. A survival knife doesn't have to be a beast. A stockman can make a perfectly usable survival knife. What matters most is that you have it on you.

My point is that you can use a knife for so much more than batoning; it's a silly thing to focus on. Just my opinion, YMMV
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The videos of folks hammering knives with tree trucks are strange; wedges are great; and a myopic focus on batoning to the exclusion of all other uses of a knife would be less than fully informative - probably why we almost never see it.

But the ability of a knife to be able to prepare small wood for a fire is an accepted functionality. So we mentally-challenged types will probably listen to the siren song of Wiseman, Kochanski, and Mears, and ignore your opinion -- just in case we don't have an axe on hand when it hits the fan.
 
The Bic can start fires in wet, icy conditions with ease, providing you prepare tinder and can get dry wood. I found my machete works great for shaving off bark and getting to dry stuff. I can make useable fuzzy sticks with my Tram!

Joe
 
Big knives can do big and little jobs. Little knives can do little jobs.


I don't baton often, but when I do I make sure I own a knife that will not fail

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Kwon Kwang said:
I consider it extremely stupid because if your technique isn't perfect, you're risking your most important tool.
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My batonig technique is certainly not perfect yet I have never broken a knife while batoning. Perhaps you should upgrade your equipment if you are breaking your knives :thumbup:
 
Kwon Kwang said:
In my opinion, there are many uses for a knife in a survival situation. Batoning is not one of them. I consider it extremely stupid because if your technique isn't perfect, you're risking your most important tool.

A survival knife can make a wedge that you can use to baton with instead. A large knife is useful defensively (bears, insane college kids who are 1/2 hillbilly, etc.), for breaking bone in game and for chopping wood and other things; I would prefer an axe or similar tool for such things. A survival knife doesn't have to be a beast. A stockman can make a perfectly usable survival knife. What matters most is that you have it on you.

My point is that you can use a knife for so much more than batoning; it's a silly thing to focus on. Just my opinion, YMMV
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Thanks for sharing, and yes a stockman can get the job done but remember, time can be a factor. It's going to be faster to just baton then carve out wedges to split wood and make tender.

Also its's not the techniques as much a its proper wood selection.
Soft wood, knot free, straight grain doesn't risk anything.

Batoning is too useful to cast off as too much of a risk.
 
Wormil said:
I think if extra thick knives were useful they would have been the norm prior to the 19th century.
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The norm prior to the 19th century was to carry an ax. We have better steels and methods now, and can make much sturdier knives without relying on sheer bulk.
 
Kwon Kwang said:
In my opinion, there are many uses for a knife in a survival situation. Batoning is not one of them. I consider it extremely stupid because if your technique isn't perfect, you're risking your most important tool.

A survival knife can make a wedge that you can use to baton with instead. A large knife is useful defensively (bears, insane college kids who are 1/2 hillbilly, etc.), for breaking bone in game and for chopping wood and other things; I would prefer an axe or similar tool for such things. A survival knife doesn't have to be a beast. A stockman can make a perfectly usable survival knife. What matters most is that you have it on you.

My point is that you can use a knife for so much more than batoning; it's a silly thing to focus on. Just my opinion, YMMV
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Thats why you practice your techniques. Batoning with a knife has been done since the early pioneer times. Granted they used an Axe much more but all we have done is learn how to make and treat steels more efficiently and better geometries, in which I think can be safer than swinging an axe. I know the limits of my knife and what I feel comfortable doing with it. But I still have an axe if I really need it. However I rarely carry it. My folding saw and my large knife is plenty at getting what I need done. People need to realize one thing here, the technique you use to achieve the end result is a success. There is no wrong way or right way. Everybody has different skill sets and what they are and are not comfortable with. Its good to see others opinions and learn other techniques for us to practice, but to down right call it stupid makes no sense, its a proven technique thas been around for many years and proved to be effient when done smart. We're not on YT pushing our knife to the limits by batoning the largest, knotty, twisted hard wood we can find, we're going to look for something more sensible than that, I wouldn't use an axe in that situation either if I can avoid it which Im sure I can.
 
Frisky said:
I think the machete might be the best survival knife of all time. A 12" Tramontina bush machete could handle many survival tasks. However, you can also build a shelter without the use of a knife and get a fire going with nothing more than a Bic lighter. You can use a fire as a signal too, to get you rescued. When I'm in big country, I always carry a lighter and my hunting knife and/or my 12" machete.

Another combination I like is the Light My Fire knife and the Bic. That gives you a knife for shelter building and 2 ways to get that all-important fire going. Finally, a lighter and a SAK with a wood saw would get you through a survival situation.

Joe
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Can't argue with a small machete. They are also easy to sharpen. Oh and they are cheap and can be purchased just about anywhere in the world.
 
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