The problem with 'survival' knives

The opposite of survival is dying. Never in my life ( I'm 53) have I heard of someone dying in the woods because their "survival" knife broke or that the knife wasn't able to batton.

Ask yourself , Did I ever read or hear this?

" Hiker found dead in woods with broken knife."

Or: " I almost didn't make it because I couldn't batton firewood to start a fire."

" Survival knife" is the biggest marketing ploy in the whole knife industry .
 
The problem isn't with the knives, they have their use. The problem is with people's understanding of what you need to survive.

I worked with a guy a while back that was a "YouTube survivalist". He didn't make the videos, just studied them. I took him out backpacking once. Just a single overnight trip in late September. He showed up with a 90lb pack! 90! I went through his "necessary" gear before we set out and forced him to leave 2/3rds of it in the car. He was clearly nervous.

Two things happened:

First, after 3 miles or so he started complaining about how heavy his pack was with just 40lbs left in it.

Second, the next morning he realized he hadn't used most of the stuff he brought. Including the BK9 he was so proud of.

I don't generally carry a large survival knife, but if I know it's likely to rain I will. They really do make processing wet wood MUCH easier.
 
ATwistedStaple said:
The problem isn't with the knives, they have their use. The problem is with people's understanding of what you need to survive.

I worked with a guy a while back that was a "YouTube survivalist". He didn't make the videos, just studied them. I took him out backpacking once. Just a single overnight trip in late September. He showed up with a 90lb pack! 90! I went through his "necessary" gear before we set out and forced him to leave 2/3rds of it in the car. He was clearly nervous.

Two things happened:

First, after 3 miles or so he started complaining about how heavy his pack was with just 40lbs left in it.

Second, the next morning he realized he hadn't used most of the stuff he brought. Including the BK9 he was so proud of.

I don't generally carry a large survival knife, but if I know it's likely to rain I will. They really do make processing wet wood MUCH easier.
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Yeah. That has been my experience with fixed blades in general. For the most part, they are unneeded unless you just prefer to use a fixed blade. The BK-9 does carry pretty well, but it is still a big knife. One needs to think clearly as to just what they might need a big knife for camping especially when you are carrying food, shelter, and other necessary things with you already. Depending on the environment, I could see wanting to have something to pound tent stakes or cut them if that is what you do. Most of my thinking continually goes back to a hatchet as the most useful tool camping. I dislike hatchets, but they are useful. I would much rather "play around" with a knife, but the hatchet is more flexible and you are not likely to be concerned about breaking it.

I just ordered a tomahawk with a flat head. Honestly, it will probably just sit in my garage after playing with it, but I wanted to play with it. I keep thinking (the practical side of me) what I really want or need is a small high quality hatchet with a wood handle.
 
Yeah. I think Rambo started most of the fad for the masses back in 1982. I know it affected my thinking. I dismissed buying any of the Rambo knives as being "junk". On the other hand, I keep thinking that I would like to have one.
 
HwangJino said:
If survival, i think a large knife is useful.
If bushcrafting, just a simple scandi ground knife will do.
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If bushcraft is basically managing to live and survive in the wilderness - it is basically survival - and if this is the case, then why can you get along with scandi and or why could not scandi knife be survival knife? What makes survival situation so different that you need different kind of knife?
 
check out mora knives light my fire it batons wood makes fires, fillets fish and is razor sharp plus did i mention its a small light pack blade i prefer over my big bastards!
 
To survive, one needs air within minutes, water within days, and food within a month. If it's freezing, then warmth. Apart from those, whatever knife helps you do those things is useful for survival.
 
Other Doc said:
If you guys have not seen LastViking's Dogs head thread, you should check it out. Not only entertaining, but may put things in perspective.
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+1 on this. That is one of the best threads I've read on this forum and very relevant.

In decades of backpacking and mountaineering, all I've really needed was my Leatherman PST. I carried my Buck 119 for years and still carry a rat 1 on trips. But to be honest I don't think I ever needed them. And I've been in some scary and nasty situations. All that said.... I really want a BK9. And just to confirm my own hypocrisy, I don't even believe in batoning
 
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22-rimfire said:
Yeah. That has been my experience with fixed blades in general. For the most part, they are unneeded unless you just prefer to use a fixed blade. The BK-9 does carry pretty well, but it is still a big knife. One needs to think clearly as to just what they might need a big knife for camping especially when you are carrying food, shelter, and other necessary things with you already. Depending on the environment, I could see wanting to have something to pound tent stakes or cut them if that is what you do. Most of my thinking continually goes back to a hatchet as the most useful tool camping. I dislike hatchets, but they are useful. I would much rather "play around" with a knife, but the hatchet is more flexible and you are not likely to be concerned about breaking it.

I just ordered a tomahawk with a flat head. Honestly, it will probably just sit in my garage after playing with it, but I wanted to play with it. I keep thinking (the practical side of me) what I really want or need is a small high quality hatchet with a wood handle.
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I've almost always carried a small axe. Most recently the Marbles Camp Axe. I like something between a hatchet and a boy's axe.

If someone asked though, what I used the axed for I'd tell them I don't carry an axe. I carry a hammer with a blade on the other side. It gets used FAR more often as a hammer than to chop.
 
Camillus said:
Fact is, like a lot of people I would like to hit upon a sound and logical reason to carry a larger blade, but when I went looking for one, I couldn't find any reason to justify it,
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How about, I don't like thorns in my face?
The place I go to most often has about 100 yards of thorny trees and such to get through before it opens up at all.
I find that the Junglas works great for keeping those thorns out of my face, which makes the day much better. :thumbup:

It also chops trees for making a shelter (I've posted the pics a zillion times before, so I'll refrain this time ;) ), and yes, it'll split wood.
However, I don't bash it through wood that is too hard; I have put wood aside when it was too hard, and saved it for when the fire was going well enough to get it going, at which point it burned very well. :)

A big knife can also do "small" knife tasks a lot of the time; that same Junglas will slice onions in the kitchen, make a notch for a trap, cut paracord or jute twine, make spears (wooden ones, NOT tying it to a stick), make feather sticks, etc.

But the big thing it does better than, say, the 4 inch blade folder in my pocket is keep those damned thorns out of my face.
 
pinnah said:
But even in a case like this, I can't get my mind to the dropped in the middle of nowhere fantasy. All I see is people wandering into the backcountry without adequate knowledge or gear.
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But there are a bunch of those out there.
Lots of people go for a hike, planning on a three hour tour (cue Gilligan's Island music :D), and bring a couple of granola bars and a liter of water.
Many don't even bring a flashlight, because they plan on being home before dark...but then they get lost.

Most of those folks wouldn't be helped much by a "survival knife" of any sort...
However, if they were thinking about "survival knives", they'd probably also bring a "survival lighter", maybe a "survival water filter", etc.
 
pinnah said:
I think this is a busted topic to start with.

But even in a case like this, I can't get my mind to the dropped in the middle of nowhere fantasy. All I see is people wandering into the backcountry without adequate knowledge or gear.
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In these days of greater leisure time and abundant off-road vehicles, parks and bike paths, I don't find this a particularly useful comment... A bike break-down dropped me in the middle of nowhere, and I wasn't even properly outside urban boundaries... It was a kind of semi-rural industrial wasteland, and temperatures suddenly dropped: I broke into some outlying shed to get out of the wind, and the Randall Model 14 I happened to be carrying meant everything for that, as the small saw I had would have been useless without that first thick plank dug out... I carried the knife strictly for fun, not imagining for a minute it would get used... The point is, you never know what can happen, and it isn't all fantasy: Here's what a sawback hollow handle did for a guy, and the handle was wisely chosen as an ALL PLASTIC design (and yes, that was the actual mystery steel Chinese-made knife used, right down to the funky handle color):

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Oh, and if this had broken, then you would have heard of a hiker dead because of the broken knife by his side... He had his arm in the bear's mouth at one point... Good thing he had the good sense to rely on a Chinese all-plastic 6" moulded hollow handle... Gosh, I'd hate to think where a Mora would have gotten him...

Gaston
 
If survival, i think a large knife is useful.
If bushcrafting, just a simple scandi ground knife will do.
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A.L. said:
If bushcraft is basically managing to live and survive in the wilderness - it is basically survival - and if this is the case, then why can you get along with scandi and or why could not scandi knife be survival knife? What makes survival situation so different that you need different kind of knife?
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People have used sharpened bone, bamboo, obsidian and chert to make knives. Why indeed should a knife need to be a Scandi? Russia's Siberia is much more vast than Scandinavia and they don't have an exclusive preference to scandi grinds. Plenty of ways to skin a cat. A scandi gets the job done, but it isn't the only design that can do it.
The whole bushcraft knife ideaology is nonsense when you make it into a mental exercise without doing it yourself to get a feel for it. It is mostly about adapting to an enviroment.
 
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stabman said:
How about, I don't like thorns in my face?
<snip>
But the big thing it does better than, say, the 4 inch blade folder in my pocket is keep those damned thorns out of my face.
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I have machetes for that and would carry one if I were in your situation. Need is always situational.
 
22-rimfire said:
I have machetes for that and would carry one if I were in your situation. Need is always situational.
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The machete is a tad long to carry for the amount of stuff to get through.
If it extended further, a machete would be the way to go.

For the woods around here, the Junglas makes a good "Northern Machete".
In a jungle, machete for sure. :thumbup:

I actually did bring a full sized machete out there once, and for that area, the Junglas did as well.

Actually, the blue handled monstrosity I made works well for that also, except for being on the heavy side; it's more of a chopper.
 
My view is that marketing's job is to create categorized problems (which are endlessly discussed and worried over), then they present their company's solution(s) to said problem(s).

The category called "survival knives" is a perfect example of this. And this thread, plus uncountable similar ones on BF, illustrate that point perfectly.

Whether the product is audio gear, camera gear, high-end bicycles, whatever — sales is done through making inexperienced people feel anxious over some particular category or technical specification. This provides an opening for marketing to zoom in to make a sale.

Just stand back, get some relevant first-hand, personal experience, and your buying will be a lot more knowledgeable. You may even find the "issue" or "category" is entirely false and contrived.
 
I like the idea of a versatile, sturdy fixed blade, along with a mid. to larger sized folder with versatility, as well,
along with decent steels that can hold good edges.
The versatility included in the selection of each knife would include several tasks that each knife will excell.
The stronger, stout fixed blade then becomes reserved for it's specific heavier tasks, and the folder becomes the go to
blade for the tasks that it was primarily designed for.
-If one is looking for a single knife, in hopes of covering all possible scenarios, that would be a hard choice,
My opinion would be a good steel, moderate sized fixed blade that would be able to handle some heavier tasks, but would
also have the ability to handle fish / game processing, etc. B.T.B.
 
AreBeeBee said:
My view is that marketing's job is to create categorized problems (which are endlessly discussed and worried over), then they present their company's solution(s) to said problem(s).

The category called "survival knives" is a perfect example of this. And this thread, plus uncountable similar ones on BF, illustrate that point perfectly.

Whether the product is audio gear, camera gear, high-end bicycles, whatever — sales is done through making inexperienced people feel anxious over some particular category or technical specification. This provides an opening for marketing to zoom in to make a sale.

Just stand back, get some relevant first-hand, personal experience, and your buying will be a lot more knowledgeable. You may even find the "issue" or "category" is entirely false and contrived.
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+1 to this. My problem with this thread and the ones like it is this: the little knife guy says the big knife guy is silly. The big knife guy says the little knife guy is not prepared. The hatchet guy says they both are doomed... All with authority and experience. Yes, i am generalizing, but to illustrate a point. I don't think pointing this out is impolite or rude, but the way this was originally posted was meant to irritate a segment of knife users and get a response. This doesn't educate, it only causes a long, useless argument that has been had to no conclusion over and over. You ever watched "Dual Survival"? Those guys had approaches that couldn't have been more different, and yet both were successful in their ways. As AreBeeBee said, let experience drive your decisions (paraphrasing).
 
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