The reality of steel prep for damascus

I've always done it, because that is how I was taught to do it. But, the fact that the joints would be tighter does make some sense. So, I think I'll try it the other way for a while and see what my results are.

Besides, why grind away good steel, if you don't have to?

Ickie
 
I suppose we should define 'how much scale ' in this discussion .A thin layer shouldn't be a problem ,a thick layer would....Your hammer blow sequence should not be random but should tend to squeeze out the slag [flux and scale] so keep your surfaces flat .
 
I have done both and cant say if it did or did not make a difference. I won't gamble on it. It only adds a few minutes to each piece.
I always grind when I make the folds. You can head off a lot of inclusions by
doing this. Do most makers here grind when making the folds?

I edited after looking at metes post. I agree that flat pieces weld best. After I flux, I square or block the billet in the press on all sides before it reaches welding heat.

Fred
 
scottickes said:
Aside from the scale issue, on whether to grind it off or not, what about grinding a crown into the pieces? I've been told that it is very beneficial by quite a few bladesmiths. I've been told that it gives the flux a place to squeeze out of the billet, instead of getting trapped inside. Is it necessary, or is it a waste of time?
Click to expand...

I've done it both ways and now I just keep things flat. Not that a slight crown wasn't working, but it's easier to just clean things up and move along. I also feel that the closer a joint I can get BEFORE the weld, the less likely I'll trap stuff in it. It also means I can use a lot less flux. I generally flux until the surface has a glassy coating and then stop. Any more is just making a mess and adding flux to get trapped in a weld later IMHO.

Also, if you plan to get into mosaics, etc and you want laser straight lines, you'd HAVE to have it all flat...


-d
 
Fred.Rowe said:
I always grind when I make the folds. You can head off a lot of inclusions by
doing this. Do most makers here grind when making the folds?
Click to expand...

ABSOLUTELY! If I'm welding it it's ground clean. I'm a real stickler about it as well, I keep grinding until there are no little pits with any scale in them...

-d
 
The factory mill scale is so thin and the pits are so small it doesnt need to be ground away but when folding or re-stacking the billet the scale is very thick and deformed enough to cause all sorts of problems so I always grind the mating surfaces. If they are big billets I also dome the faces to allow the flux to escape but if the dry method is used there is no reason to dome them.
 
One tip to not having to grind on the folds: (Jim Batson taught me this )
If it drops to black heat, hard scale will form and it must be ground off. If you fold and weld ,never letting the billet get below red heat, you can just keep folding and welding. Using a press you can make a bar of damascus to 448 layers in about one hour (seven bar stack X six folds). No problems with the welds not sticking or scale inclusions. The way to do it is to hot cut the billet, (I brush it off with a steel brush constantly while working the billet, BTW), flux,fold and weld. The procedure is roughly this:

Stack and stick weld up the ends of the billet.

Heat, flux, more heat, flux, bring to welding heat, flux lightly, bring back to welding heat, set the weld gently by hand hammer, quickly re-heat, weld in the press. (Wire brushing just prior to the weld)

Draw out the billet to twice its length, hot cut nearly through, fold, flux set by hand, weld in the press. (bringing the billet to welding heat of course, and brushing)

Repeat five more times. = 448 layers. If you started with 6X1.5X1/8" stock, you should end up with (after clean up and grinding) a 12X1.25X1/4" bar.

I made a die up for my press that has a 2.5" hot cut and a 4.5" welding surface (parallel and flat) side by side. The drawing dies have a 7" drawing surface (both domed) . Since the press is horizontal, the dies just drop in, requiring only seconds to change. Having the hot cut and welding die together makes the fold go quick and easy.

Remember to keep the anvil, press, hammer, etc. completely clean of scale and anything that can get stuck to the billet and included into the steel. Also have the forge atmosphere as neutral as possible (and still at welding heat).

Stacy
 
The guys brought up a good point. When time to "fold" I cut my billets into pieces with the chop saw. Grind them clean with a 9" side-grinder (THIS scale is much thicker and tougher than the 1080/1084 mill scale!) Stack the billets up, then tack weld together.

This is for mosaics.

If you're doing a random pattern, twists, ladder, etc. I do it very similar to what Stacy just wrote out. I do cut and stack most times though.

:)
 
The scale on Mace/Bruno's 1084 is almost nonexistent, I don't grind this off and the 15n20 from Kelly has no scale, rust is not a problem, unless it's deeply pitted.

I stack 12 layers, weld and draw out to 30" long, grind clean, cut into 6 pieces, re-stack, weld, draw, grind, cut into 5 pieces, stack and weld for 360 layers with 3 welding heats.

This is quick, easy and works for me.
 
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