the role of a police officer

DannyinJapan

DannyinJapan

Joined
Oct 9, 2003
Messages
5,594
I was born in Dallas, Texas in 1971 and I never really had any cause to look at police officers as anything but predators. As a child, I only saw fear and upset when the lights came on behind my parents car, and after it was all over (ticket given) nothing but anger and hatred.
To a certain extent, I can understand my parent's anger and frustration. We were a poor family with 4 kids, the 150$ ticket for an expired registration sticker was an unnecessary hardship that took away money we didnt have.
In Texas cops often do tend to be a tad "copish."
(there's two of them in my family)

What I have come to understand from living in Japan, however, is what place the police officer holds in our political system. Oh yes, the cop has a role in our democracy and you may never know it until you leave America.

The police officer is YOU. He represents us, the average citizens, against the organized crime families, corrupt politicians, and anybody else who wants to prey upon us.

You may not understand this, but I now value the fact the my police have the fastest cars and the best guns and training they can get.

I live in a place where organized crime families took over the govt a long time ago. Police here carry empty pistols, ride mopeds, and, when the gangsters demand it, even give up citizens who run into police stations begging for protection.

The police represent you and me, at the most basic level, against the animals.
They can arrest anybody, even governors or the president of GE or anybody else. That is not so in all countries, let me tell you.

When some local bureacrat rapes some teenage girl, I know that my police will go get him and give him the perp walk just like any other criminal. That aint so in every country.

If you never heard this before, think about it. It's the truth. Believe me, you'd never believe what you were hearing if, when you dialed 911, some police officer gets on and tells you "oh, well, how do we know you're telling the truth? maybe someone is in your house and maybe there isnt. IF we come to your house and there's nobody there, you're going to be in trouble"

Or , if you call to report a drunk driver they say " what do you want us to do about it?"

The secret keystone of a real, free democracy: The police. It's almost like a separate branch of the government from the judiciary...
 
Being adventurous I had the bracelets on as a kid and teenager more than my fair share . Riding motorcycles led to the old wrist restraints being applied a time or two as an adult . I am not a fan of debtors prison .
I think society has a hard time defining what they want as a police force . I would like it if the local police were a tad more polite . I also don,t want a charm school graduate showing up when things go wrong . It sometimes takes a warrior to deal with agressors .(sp)
In truth I think a police force is like a government . You get what you pay for or you change it .

Its hard to look at another country from a distance and judge a police force . I think I would have to know the people as well
 
People are people the world over.

Our US government has done a pretty good job of acknowledging the flaws of it's component members, and instituting a system of checks and balances. We should never forget why checks and balances are needed.

There have been horrendous abuses of LE power in the US. Any of you can probably name some high profile ones. I, at least, can name some that never made the papers. Lives have been altered and destroyed, and some in LE have become powerful and wealthy.

We are fortunate that our system functions as well as it does. There are indeed places where abuses happen more frequently. It could be here too, if we are not vigilant.
 
Thanks for posting this Danny. I have had my share of rude encounters with the police, and I certainly mistrust them. This helps to put things in perspective. After all, look at Edwin Edwards. Four time govenor of Louisianna. Serving 12 years as we speak. Still beloved by the Louisianna people.
 
Howard Wallace said:
There have been horrendous abuses of LE power in the US. Any of you can probably name some high profile ones. I, at least, can name some that never made the papers. Lives have been altered and destroyed, and some in LE have become powerful and wealthy.

We are fortunate that our system functions as well as it does. There are indeed places where abuses happen more frequently. It could be here too, if we are not vigilant.
Click to expand...

It is here, Howard, already. And I happen to live in one of those places that you mentioned above.

During a recent conversation I had with a friend of mine, a defense lawyer who is an activist from waaay back (marched WITH MLK, etc.), the issue came up of rights, civil liberties, and the court's enforcement of them. He said, "There are three groups of people that the court is interested in protecting right now: women, children, and cops."

Unfortunately, he is right.

I don't have an issue with giving protection to those who cannot provide it for themselves -- the weak, the disenfranchised, the vulnerable -- it's part of why we banded together in the caves in the first place. But I have witnessed too much police brutality, corruption, greed and visciousness here in my own community to be willing to cut them any slack. They are not powerless; they are among the least vulnerable public employees, in terms of legal prosecution.

Our problem here locally is worse than it is nationally. We have a bad police force, a worse county sherriff, and a court system and population that isn't really, well.... progressive... informed... concerned. But there is a problem nationally as well, and I think that Danny is, at least in one regard, correct in saying that the cops are "you and me."

In one way, at least. I think they are symptomatic of an issue with many other expressions. Yes, we do get what we pay for, especially when it comes to public institutions. As with teachers, when you pay someone too little for the work or type of work they will be expected to do, you get applicants for those positions who are interested in the job for reasons other than the pay.

I know a lot of educators, am proud to call them my friends. They make crap for money, chump change. They love their work. And they believe in it. They aren't in it for the money.

I know and know of a lot of cops who also say they love their work. Some were drawn to the job because they are sadistic, under-educated, egomaniacal, racist thugs. And now they get to pull a paycheck for it, however small.

I am not saying there are not good, even great cops out there. There are, just as there are great teachers. I am saying that we, as a society, are not being careful enough with the kinds of people we are putting onto our streets, armed and dangerous. We aren't screening them carefully enough, and then we aren't training them enough.

And we definately need more accountability -- try filing a complaint against a cop sometime. You will file it with... the police. We desperately need some checks and balances: no organization is very good at investigating itself.

We need to pay them more, and ask more of them. Until we do so, we are going to all too often get more of the same: thugs, in uniforms, working from behind the protection of a badge, unaccountable and unanswerable for their actions.

I am sure this is going to ruffle a few feathers; that's okay. I am not saying that all LE officers are bad people. I AM saying that currently, it seems to be a profession that attracts a lot of questionable characters with questionable motives for being in their profession. And we need to do something about that.
 
I've been beaten by cops. Having said this, I still think most cops, like most people, are pretty good. With the exception of New Orleans. (Something's wrong there or they would not have fled their posts)

You know, we have this same discussion about teachers. We could have it about engineers- why in heck did we send our super Hubble looking-glass into space with a warped lens? People are flawed, people have weakness. It's not Doctors or politicians or Cops or whatever:

in my old age I've come to think it is just us.

munk
 
I am a cop. In a nutshell the "you get what you pay for" saying was never more true. If you want to go on the cheap for your law enforcement then beware. People fear screwing up and loosing a good job more than they do a minimum wage job and their actions will show that more often than not. You also do not realize how much the "culture" of any individual department can vary greatly from the dept. one town/city over. My dept's policies, attitudes and performance are vastly different from some of the other neighboring jurisdictions in my part of the state. We have our screw-ups like any other job, but they get pretty swift and fair treatment for their indiscretions. Ultimately its an issue of police leadership.
 
Good to hear, G22, and welcome.
I've seen many a bureacracy destroyed from the top down. A few good leaders can really change an operation of any kind if it involves people working together.





munk
 
Thank you.

That is true. I became a Cop fairly late in life (32) and have some non-cop experience under my belt to base some comparisons on. Most peoples experience with cops is on traffic stops and receiving traffic summons. Their usual complaint is about rudeness. From my side of the car door, and as a police supervisor, many (not all but many) people stopped start out with the "why are you stopping me?!!", "this is bull ****!!", "whats your badge number?" crap right off the bat. Then they call in a complaint saying the officer was "rude" to them. There are always two sides to an interaction and the ones you see on the internet are typically slanted to one side. Thats not to say that there are no Cops out there with "issues". I know that there are, but we also have no idea what "type" (read criminal history) of person we are listening to when we hear these "police horror stories" on the internet either.

My 2 cents.
 
G22 said:
I am a cop. In a nutshell the "you get what you pay for" saying was never more true. If you want to go on the cheap for your law enforcement then beware.
Click to expand...

This is one of the most true statements I have ever heard. Same with teachers. In most places a hairdresser can earn more money than a cop or teacher. Shows what our society values.

I have no problems with law enforcement here. There are so few that they basically leave you alone as long as you aren't bothering anybody, speeding or driving drunk, and if I call 9/11 I got somebody here within 30 minutes
 
There are good and bad cops all over. For the most part, the police in this area a pretty good to great...IMHO. Most police officers I have had to deal with seemed educated, dutiful, and fair. I was very grateful to a Sherrif's Dep. that fielded my wife's car accident last week. He was there on the spot, listened to everyone, kept the traffic moving as it was already pretty backed up due to flooding, and finally he gave my wife a ride to my office (maybe 3 or 4 miles away) so that we could meet up and talk about our next move.
Briefly, I studdied to become an LEO in college. However, as time went on I found that my particular choice in a woman would not fair well having to deal with the stress of having a cop for a husband;) Besides, I had a family business to turn to.
On the other side of the coin, there are some really lousy cops out there...just like there are lousy members of every profession. In my hometown where I went to highschool it is a big time good ol' boy situation with the police. There is an officer that likes to bust up highschool parties just to corner some of the girls and make them squirm and throw the book at the guys. There are cops that were bullied in highschool. Now they pack a chip on their shoulder and gun on their hip. An odd little town, really. One this is small and unimportant, yet EVERYONE seems to feel like they are better than everyone else. There was one really, really great cop, but even he left after 6 or 7 years to work at a Toyota plant making more in overtime a year, then he would the whole year a police officer.

Welcome, G22. I totally agree with you on the "rude" factor people gripe about. I have run into a few rude cops. Mostly in college when someone on my dorm floor pulled the firealarm. However, everytime I have been pulled over (all two times:D) the cops have been very civil with me. One gave me a ticket, but gave me a break so i wouldn't have to go to traffic school (84 in a 65). Trooper King was his name. That was very nice of him to knock off 4mph so that I wouldn't have to do something unpleasent. I was friendly and civil, so he got the drift that I was just a college kid in a hurry to get back home for the weekend. Had i started in with the "This is bull$h|t!" then i'm sure he would have been more than happy to slap me with everything he could. I know i would have:D People just can't seem to get it through their heads that as much of a pain as it is to stop and get ticketed, it is worse for the cop as he has to pull over 20 foul-mouthed motorists before his day wraps up.

Jake
 
Steely_Gunz said:
People just can't seem to get it through their heads that as much of a pain as it is to stop and get ticketed, it is worse for the cop as he has to pull over 20 foul-mouthed motorists before his day wraps up.

Jake
Click to expand...

Yes. You, as the person pulled over know that you are just an "average joe" on his way to work, home, the store etc. who now has to deal with a ticket. I on the other hand dont know if its your paperwork or a gun you are digging in your glove box for, or if you just robbed a bank 20 min ago and would rather shoot it out than go to jail. We just had a state trooper here killed when he stopped for what he thought was a disabled vehicle. It was 3 guys switching cars after a bank robbery. They shot and killed the trooper. He managed to shoot and wound 2 of them.
 
The trick when getting pulled over where I live is to pretend you speak french. Being in Canada they are required to speak whatever official language you do. I live in BC though where pretty much no one speaks french including cops, more often then not you'll be left alone.
 
Yeah, well, the part of this country that I live in, Grob, speaking French to a cop just might land you a mouth full of broken teeth.

"Don't you know them French hate freedom... boy?"

And I know, G22, that departments have tremendous variance between them. The cultural, social, economic, racial and educational climate in this part of Florida is, unfortunately, about as backward and opressive as it gets. Last election season I worked my butt off trying to get a new candidate elected for sheriff -- he was a career MP with the Air Force, really moderate, open minded. Probably put in close to five hundred hours with his campaign.

He lost the election, and everyone I know that worked on that campain received threats of some sort. Some worse than others.

If that gives you an idea of the climate in this neck o' the woods.
 
Danny, I agree with your sentiment, but disagree on the semantics. What you're describing isn't the police so much as a responsible citizenry. The police (most of them) are a part of that citizenry, but every individual has a degree of responsibility to keep the peace. America has a strong tradition of that kind of responsibility from our pioneer days, when there were no designated lawmen. That tradition is being eroded today, but it's still there to some degree. Criminals still fear the wrath of honest citizens and that of the police, in most places at least. Places in which the general population is denied access to the tools needed to protect themselves (NYC, Washington D.C.) are usually more dangerous places to live because of it. So yes, the police are a part of the equation, but so are responsible and self-sufficient citizens.
 
As a retired LEO, nothing grinds me more than a crooked cop. We have one in the small town where I shop for groceries. This guy uses marijuana (at least) and often jacks up kids, takes their dope, and says "Run along now, and I won't charge you..." Every kid in town knows this cop on a first name basis, but can't name the good ones to save their soul. The mayor used to be the Chief of Police....I stopped him and asked when he was going to get rid of the one making us all look bad....his answer "We don't want to swing at him and miss...WE want to get him the first time". Corruption is like Cancer.....you gotta cut it out NOW, or you're going to have a lot more. This guy needs to be face down, but he's got four kids coming thru my school system....What chance do they have??? :grumpy:
 
This guy needs to be face down, but he's got four kids coming thru my school system....What chance do they have??? >>>> JN

Great place to begin a discussion; the kids are at a disadvantage, and if they internalize their sociopathic father's ways their kids in turn will bring it forth. But out of all kinds of bizarre circumstance and hardship Life does reach; children have an amazing capacity to move on. So what do we do?

Well, busting the Dad may or may not help his sons, but it sure would help the surrounding 'society'.

Our society is crying for role models right now. Not crack selling, hoop dreaming gansta rappers; but garbagemen, carpenters, policemen, librarians, clerks, mail men, brick layers, computer nerds, steel workers, donut bakers.

If we'd don't consciously make a concerted effort to celebrate our lives, to bestow esteem and self respect upon each other, we are opening the door for our own slaughter as a people and species.


munk
 
Well, we got a little thread drift, but that's ok. It wasnt bad drift.
LAst year, some gangsters were trying to beat up some guy here in Tokyo. He managed to get away from them and run into a police station. The gangsters went to the police station and demanded that the police send out the victim.
They did.

There is a message in there for us all and it tells you a great deal about Japan.
Who's in charge? Well, it aint John Q. Ohashi.

Strong, agressive, effective (but fair) police means "We are not going to take it."
We will not become the invisible slaves of some massive organized crime syndicate, which is the situation in Italy and Japan and Russia and probably many other countries.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top