The Rothco Ramster -- A Buckmaster 184 Survival Knife Clone

U

Uncle Buckmaster

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Oct 21, 2021
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A few months ago I purchased this interesting knife for just over $40 online. Initially it was purchased as a novelty knife, so my expectations of it weren't by any means high, but it has since surprised me.

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The Rothco Ramster Survival Kit Knife is a Taiwanese clone of the Buckmaster 184. The Buckmaster 184 has some pretty interesting history behind it that's worth looking into if you're interested, but the short version is that it was designed by a military contractor by the name of Qual-A-Tech in collaboration with the US Navy Seals and produced by Buck Knives. It was fielded and tested by the Navy Seals, but never formally adopted. However, the design shares a lineage with the M9 Bayonet, which was the ultimate result of feedback from the Navy after having tested both the Buckmaster 184 and later the 185 which was a full tang design.
The Buckmaster 184 consisted of a 7.5" clip point 425M stainless steel hollow ground blade with two separate types of saw teeth on the spine designed for cutting through rope, wood, ice and even Aluminum attached to a hollow stainless steel handle by a threaded bolt, held in place with a nut and sealed with a generous amount of epoxy. Although such designs are thought to be inherently weak, the Buck 184 is not known to have any issues regarding separation of the blade from the handle. In fact, those spikes on the hand guard were -- according to the patent -- designed to allow the knife to function as a Grappling Hook capable of supporting up to 600 pounds of weight. However, Buck themselves openly advised consumers against use of the Buck 184 as a Grappling Hook for obvious reasons, and has stated that they were ultimately intended to be used as anchors to help the Seals resist ocean currents while remaining in fixed positions. Regardless, the knife is obviously built strong.

Forgive me for mostly speaking of the Buckmaster 184, but being a clone, the Ramster shares most of these specifications in common. The only real differences between the two is that the Ramster has thinner blade stock and the exact composition of the steel is unknown, as it isn't listed anywhere in specific, not on the box, not on the blade, nor even on Rothco's website, but I suspect that it's something cheap like 3CR13 or 420J2.

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I've wanted an authentic Buckmaster 184 Survival Knife since I first laid eyes on one, but unfortunately they've been out of production since 1997, and they tend to be rather expensive on the used market. Some say that you can find one for cheap if you shop around long enough, but I'm not quite devoted enough to search as long as it takes to find one that's 100% complete, isn't $400+, and is in decent condition. Plus, if I were to obtain one, then I wouldn't really be comfortable using it for anything.

The Rothco Ramster, while obviously not on the same level of quality as the original Buckmaster 184, is actully a functional knife. Granted, I didn't buy it with any intensive or practical uses in mind to begin with, but if I'm going to buy a knife, then I want it to be able to function as one, not merely as a paperweight. The Ramster has an MSRP of $57.99, but generally goes for closer to $40, with my example costing a mere $41.99 on Amazon. For $50ish, my overall experience with the knife has concluded that it's worth it. The knife is sharp right out of the box, feels sturdy, and the overall fit and finish is decent. It's well machined, the bead-blasted finish is even, (although it appears to have worn a bit around the edges of the hand guard due to the loose packaging allowing the knife to shift around inside of the box) and everything is tight as it should be.
My only complaint is that the blade grind is extremely uneven at the tip, so much so that at a glance I actually thought that the tip was bent because the grind is so slanted on one edge compared to the other that if it went any farther then it would be a chisel grind. Regardless, it still cuts well, and for the price, I really can't complain too much.

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In addition, the sheath is of good quality as well, although it's all plastic and nylon, (just as it was for the genuine Buckmaster 184) so it's nothing spectacular to begin with. The accessories that make up the kit are also pretty good, but again, they're all just inexpensive odds and ends.

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There are some videos on YouTube by a channel called Survival on Purpose which has tested both the Rothco Ramster and the original Buckmaster 184, and the Ramster appears to be a decent alternative to the Buckmaster 184 (for lack of anything better) based on those tests.

Some may think that this knife is silly, and not without merit, but I personally think that it's really cool. (Well, except for the name, that is silly -- sounds like a cross between Rambo and Hamster.) Of course, I grew up in the 90s and I'm a shameless fan of 80s/90s Action Movies and Video Games, so I have no issue admitting that I find it awesome. So if folks want to make fun of me for it, then have at it, I'm a grown man, I like what I like.
 
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"Rothco Ramster", sounds like the name of a 70's male porn star 😁.

Like many other members I have seen post on this forum over the years, I myself have discovered how useful and durable some cheap fixed-blades can be. Below is a pic of my "cheap beater", I got it on close-out sale from Amazon for $8 new (eight dollars). I used this knife on construction sites, and in particular, I used it when inspecting old houses that I was going to renovate, pounding it into old drywall, plaster, and wood, as well as a fair amount of prying (during cursory walk-throughs one of the few tools I carried was a fixed-blade).

The knife never showed any sign of failing, and it actually held a decent edge . It served me well. I came close to giving it to one of my workers when I sold my construction company, but I decided against it. I'm glad I kept it. I carry it once in awhile.

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Here's a pic of the Rothco Ramster. To be frank, it's clearly a direct (identical?) copy of the Buckmaster, right down to the screw-in anchors. For that reason alone I wouldn't own one, but I don't judge or look down on others who do. In the end, it's just a knife, and I'm not going to get bent out of shape over a knife copy, I just won't buy it.

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OK, as much I like to read and dig about such topics, i have a dumb question...
Those two spikes on the guard, why are they there ? I did fiddle with one of those knives, I believe, anyways i tried it, those two sharp things pointing at me were very uncomfortable in any grip and I couldnt figufe it out why they are pointing this way.
 
POCEH KOCEB said:
OK, as much I like to read and dig about such topics, i have a dumb question...
Those two spikes on the guard, why are they there ? I did fiddle with one of those knives, I believe, anyways i tried it, those two sharp things pointing at me were very uncomfortable in any grip and I couldnt figufe it out why they are pointing this way.
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I could be wrong, but I believe I read in some official Buck literature that the knife was originally designed for Navy SEALS, and that they wanted a knife that could be used to anchor a raft on the shoreline without having to tie it up, as well as anchor themselves on the ocean floor during scuba missions.

I don't remember if it was the SEALs, the Navy, or Buck who came up with the idea.

I think the knife actually went through testing, but was ultimately rejected. I don't recall why (I think weight was one issue).
 
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I had both the 184 and 185. The 184 I never carried cause it weighed too much to carry around. Sold it for over $400 like 6-7 years ago. The 185 i used as my scuba diving knife. Lost it somewhere, no idea where now. The originals were very cool knives.

Thank you for the nice write up on the Rothco Ramster. It fills a demand for those who want to capture that coolness. I am not sure however how it would hold up if it tested like all those youtube videos.
 
I bought a 184 here on the exchange because I didn't buy one back in the 80s when I was a kid. I think I paid 400 dollars. A big price for a bit of nostalgia I guess. I totally get where you are coming from.
 
POCEH KOCEB said:
OK, as much I like to read and dig about such topics, i have a dumb question...
Those two spikes on the guard, why are they there ? I did fiddle with one of those knives, I believe, anyways i tried it, those two sharp things pointing at me were very uncomfortable in any grip and I couldnt figufe it out why they are pointing this way.
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There's actually a bit of controversy over this because there are two conflicting reported intended uses for the pins between the designer -- Phrobis -- and the manufacturer -- Buck Knives.

According to the Patent Information by Phrobis, the pins were designed when fitted to the knife to serve as a Grappling Hook capable of supporting weight up to 600lbs. According to Buck Knives, the pins were intended to be used as an anchor capable of supporting up to 300lbs for securing the Navy Seals and their gear in a fixed submerged position during missions.

So I presume that Phrobis designed them to be used as a Grappling Hook, but then Buck found a more practical use for them after the fact and marketed them as such, knowing full well that the end user would likely injure themselves left and right by attempting to use their Buckmaster 184 as a Grappling Hook, to which they would certainly be sued into oblivion.
 
Uncle Buckmaster said:
There's actually a bit of controversy over this because there are two conflicting reported intended uses for the pins between the designer -- Phrobis -- and the manufacturer -- Buck Knives.

According to the Patent Information by Phrobis, the pins were designed when fitted to the knife to serve as a Grappling Hook capable of supporting weight up to 600lbs. According to Buck Knives, the pins were intended to be used as an anchor capable of supporting up to 300lbs for securing the Navy Seals and their gear in a fixed submerged position during missions.

So I presume that Phrobis designed them to be used as a Grappling Hook, but then Buck found a more practical use for them after the fact and marketed them as such, knowing full well that the end user would likely injure themselves left and right by attempting to use their Buckmaster 184 as a Grappling Hook, to which they would certainly be sued into oblivion.
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Am I the only one who still doesn't understand this? It's not your fault, Uncle Buck. I just don't get it.
 
Boombats said:
Not to derail but I really like this. Do you remember what it's called besides "Master USA?"
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Master USA is the brand, the name of the knife is "Alpha Team", and the model # is MU1132.

But a couple of things, I think it's long discontinued (I got it on closeout sale back around 2016), and mine has been modified. It originally had a spear-point blade (I ground the rounded false-edge straight), and the butt-end of the handle hooked downward ( I ground off the "hook" so I could better grip the handle with gloves on). It also had a triangular lanyard loop/skull-cracker sticking out from the end (I cut that off to reduce weight).

Still, in it's original condition I found it to be a very appealing knife (5-1/4" long, 3/16" thick blade, full tang, G10 handles). I first became aware of them, and liked what I saw, when another member here posted a pic of theirs, and then I went searching for one.

The original sheath was crappy.

If you're still interested, I wish you luck. Maybe there are still some around.

EDIT- I just did a Google search, and an ebay search, and I couldn't find a single one. Looks like Master is using the "Alpha Team' name for a different knife now.
 
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Mister Coffee said:
Am I the only one who still doesn't understand this? It's not your fault, Uncle Buck. I just don't get it.
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Back in the 1980's knife makers were looking for all kinds of ways to distinguish their "survival" knives and appeal to buyers with various gimmicks, gadgetry, and enhanced "survival" features.

One maker produced a knife with a scabbard that actually converted into a crossbow. I think they (or another maker) had a scabbard that converted into a slingshot.

Since Buck was a serious knife maker, I assume they had the best of intentions with the "anchors". But yeah, the idea of using (throwing) your knife as a grappling hook, in a survival situation, when your knife is likely your most vital piece of survival gear, does challenge comprehension.



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Uncle Buckmaster said:
There's actually a bit of controversy over this because there are two conflicting reported intended uses for the pins between the designer -- Phrobis -- and the manufacturer -- Buck Knives.

According to the Patent Information by Phrobis, the pins were designed when fitted to the knife to serve as a Grappling Hook capable of supporting weight up to 600lbs. According to Buck Knives, the pins were intended to be used as an anchor capable of supporting up to 300lbs for securing the Navy Seals and their gear in a fixed submerged position during missions.

So I presume that Phrobis designed them to be used as a Grappling Hook, but then Buck found a more practical use for them after the fact and marketed them as such, knowing full well that the end user would likely injure themselves left and right by attempting to use their Buckmaster 184 as a Grappling Hook, to which they would certainly be sued into oblivion.
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However useful, there is a patent from the mid 80s. Do we know if Rothco licensed the patent ? Any respective notes on the packaging ?

Funnily enough, the hooks are not included in the product pictures from Rothco.

Just wondering,

Roland.
 
ferider said:
However useful, there is a patent from the mid 80s. Do we know if Rothco licensed the patent ? Any respective notes on the packaging ?

Funnily enough, the hooks are not included in the product pictures from Rothco.

Just wondering,

Roland.
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I honestly don't know. I've actually seen a couple of posts online claiming that the Ramster is a licensed clone of the Buckmaster 184, but Rothco themselves makes no such claims, nor do they even so much as reference any possible connection whatsoever to the Buckmaster 184, so I highly doubt that it's a licensed clone, otherwise they would probably use that as a selling point.

Perhaps at one point in time it may have been a licensed copy, but I can find no evidence that it ever was. Also, I would presume that whatever patents Phrobis once held for the Buckmaster 184 design are long since expired, as there have been clones of the 184 in circulation since the early 90s, many of which were sold by companies which presumably would have been sued for Patent Infringement if Phrobis held any claim to the design.

In fact, in 1994 Phrobis actually tried to sue Buck Knives over the Buckmaster 184, 188 M9 Field Knife, and the 639 Fieldmate for a variety of different reasons, and as near as I can tell, none of them succeeded because Buck continued to sell the 184 and 188 until 1997.

To my knowledge, there has never been any officially licensed copy of the Buckmaster 184 on the market.
 
Nice. I don't need it, any more than I needed a 184 back in the day, though I did like them. (Just as well. I couldn't afford a 184 then or now)
I think for my "survival" needs, a Puukko or a 110 or a 6OT or 7OT, along with a large stockman, and a 4 blade Scout/Camp/Demo knife, will take care of all my "survival" knife needs. Add a cable saw or a folding saw, for wood processing. Why would I want to beat on my knife? If I ever need to split a log, I can whittle/carve a wooden wedge, and beat on that. 😊
 
While the Ramster could serve as a Survival Knife, I bought it mostly for kicks and grins. The idea of sawing/batoning through a log with it sounds fun, but if I were going out into the woods then I would probably pack something smaller or at least lighter in weight.

I wish that Buck (or anybody for that matter) was still making the 639 Fieldmate, as it seems like a fantastic knife for wilderness carry, but I'm hesitant to use mine since it's rare and the prices are on the rise.

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