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Summer is officially here!!!!
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Off Topic The Snark Thread
- Thread starter The Warrior
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- Feb 17, 2013
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Warning - long post...
You know how sometimes people say that they have had a shitty day?
Well, I seem to have had a shitty month.
Right after Memorial Day, I started getting slow toilet gulping with 2 toilets and backflow up one of the shower drains. Checked the septic tank and while time to be pumped (been 5 years), it was not clogged. BUT, when I started checking rod out access ports, the line from the house to the tank was completely full of, well, water and shit. And I noticed that water was running into the tank essentially at a "drip rate".
After a lot of work, I determined that a blockage had occurred near the septic tank where the lines from the house merge near the tank. (Aside - the house is weird - 156 feet long, one room wide for all but the kitchen/master bedroom area in the center. There is a full bath at one end and 90 feet away is the kitchen plumbing and the other two bathrooms, so there are 2 separate lines that merge near the tank.)
After a whole lot more work, I got the blockage cleared using line snakes and hydraulic water pressure.
The blockage is likely the result of the now-mandatory low-flow 1.5 gallon per flush toilets. The lines from the house are the old standard 4" ID lines. The new standard is 3" lines. With 4" lines, low flow flushes and a junction in the pipe, "logs" can be left "high and dry" along the lines and eventually get clogged.
Other than completely ripping out the entire septic system and installing 3" lines AND adding a separate system for each ed of the house to eliminate the junction, the only preventative I have come up with is to not flush the commode until I get ready to take a shower so that the shower water helps flush the poop on down the line.
Okay, so that was 2 weeks ago, so why the "month" reference??
Well, Monday I started getting black water backing up in the tub when letting out a sink full of dish water. I knew that the kitchen sink, shower, tub and bathroom sink ran into a 2" cast iron drain line, separate from the line from the toilet. I had originally found that the kitchen line merged with the toilet line out past the retaining wall when I had to replace the main drain line. Yeah, not knowing any better I replaced the old 4" clay tile segments with 4" PVC. Should have dropped the line to 3" (see above) but I didn't know any better at the time as all work I have ever done on septic involved 4" pipe.
When I replaced the line, I used a clay tile to pvc adapter for tying the kitchen line to the main line. Why dig up perfectly good drain lines if you don't have to? Right?
Well, after working for what seemed like forever, I came to the conclusion that one of the clay tile pipe in the kitchen line had either shifted or collapsed, so I had to start digging a 19" deep by 2 ft wide trench to find the problem. After 2 days of digging in 95ºF heat, I found the problem - it turns out that when the system was installed in 1950, "they" put a damn grease trap in the kitchen drain line, a concrete box WITH A METAL LID. That had collapsed. And allowed the grease trap to fill up with dirt and roots
Now here's the kicker - there is no grease trap on the original house plans. If there had been, I would have known -
a) that there was a grease trap that could be the problem
b) I would have had a basic idea of where to dig
c) would have known there was a grease trap that needed to be cleaned out periodically over the last 67 years.
My mother didn't even know it was there and she was here, albeit a 15 y.o. girl who could not have care less about the plumbing, except that she knew that she wouldn't have to use an outhouse any longer.
So now, I have to excavate the 2 ft by 2 ft by 2 ft concrete box (surrounded by mud made with yucky dishwasher/sink/tub/shower water) that starts about 14" down, and fix the problem.
So my 3 options are -
1 - should I just bridge the gap between the clay tile pipes on either side, eliminating the grease trap
2 - replace the grease trap with a new one and patch the line back together
3 - eliminate the grease trap AND remove the clay tile pipe all together (since I already have half of it at least half exposed) and replace it completely with a new pvc pipe.
1 would be fastest
2 would put back the grease trap to do what it is intended to do (keep grease out of the septic tank, although they are no longer installed in new installations
3 would take the longest with the most work but would eliminate digging up and cleaning the grease trap 1x per year, eliminate the threat of clay tile collapsing, etc.
I know what I THINK I should do, but what are y'all's opinions?
You know how sometimes people say that they have had a shitty day?
Well, I seem to have had a shitty month.
Right after Memorial Day, I started getting slow toilet gulping with 2 toilets and backflow up one of the shower drains. Checked the septic tank and while time to be pumped (been 5 years), it was not clogged. BUT, when I started checking rod out access ports, the line from the house to the tank was completely full of, well, water and shit. And I noticed that water was running into the tank essentially at a "drip rate".
After a lot of work, I determined that a blockage had occurred near the septic tank where the lines from the house merge near the tank. (Aside - the house is weird - 156 feet long, one room wide for all but the kitchen/master bedroom area in the center. There is a full bath at one end and 90 feet away is the kitchen plumbing and the other two bathrooms, so there are 2 separate lines that merge near the tank.)
After a whole lot more work, I got the blockage cleared using line snakes and hydraulic water pressure.
The blockage is likely the result of the now-mandatory low-flow 1.5 gallon per flush toilets. The lines from the house are the old standard 4" ID lines. The new standard is 3" lines. With 4" lines, low flow flushes and a junction in the pipe, "logs" can be left "high and dry" along the lines and eventually get clogged.
Other than completely ripping out the entire septic system and installing 3" lines AND adding a separate system for each ed of the house to eliminate the junction, the only preventative I have come up with is to not flush the commode until I get ready to take a shower so that the shower water helps flush the poop on down the line.
Okay, so that was 2 weeks ago, so why the "month" reference??
Well, Monday I started getting black water backing up in the tub when letting out a sink full of dish water. I knew that the kitchen sink, shower, tub and bathroom sink ran into a 2" cast iron drain line, separate from the line from the toilet. I had originally found that the kitchen line merged with the toilet line out past the retaining wall when I had to replace the main drain line. Yeah, not knowing any better I replaced the old 4" clay tile segments with 4" PVC. Should have dropped the line to 3" (see above) but I didn't know any better at the time as all work I have ever done on septic involved 4" pipe.
When I replaced the line, I used a clay tile to pvc adapter for tying the kitchen line to the main line. Why dig up perfectly good drain lines if you don't have to? Right?
Well, after working for what seemed like forever, I came to the conclusion that one of the clay tile pipe in the kitchen line had either shifted or collapsed, so I had to start digging a 19" deep by 2 ft wide trench to find the problem. After 2 days of digging in 95ºF heat, I found the problem - it turns out that when the system was installed in 1950, "they" put a damn grease trap in the kitchen drain line, a concrete box WITH A METAL LID. That had collapsed. And allowed the grease trap to fill up with dirt and roots
Now here's the kicker - there is no grease trap on the original house plans. If there had been, I would have known -
a) that there was a grease trap that could be the problem
b) I would have had a basic idea of where to dig
c) would have known there was a grease trap that needed to be cleaned out periodically over the last 67 years.
My mother didn't even know it was there and she was here, albeit a 15 y.o. girl who could not have care less about the plumbing, except that she knew that she wouldn't have to use an outhouse any longer.
So now, I have to excavate the 2 ft by 2 ft by 2 ft concrete box (surrounded by mud made with yucky dishwasher/sink/tub/shower water) that starts about 14" down, and fix the problem.
So my 3 options are -
1 - should I just bridge the gap between the clay tile pipes on either side, eliminating the grease trap
2 - replace the grease trap with a new one and patch the line back together
3 - eliminate the grease trap AND remove the clay tile pipe all together (since I already have half of it at least half exposed) and replace it completely with a new pvc pipe.
1 would be fastest
2 would put back the grease trap to do what it is intended to do (keep grease out of the septic tank, although they are no longer installed in new installations
3 would take the longest with the most work but would eliminate digging up and cleaning the grease trap 1x per year, eliminate the threat of clay tile collapsing, etc.
I know what I THINK I should do, but what are y'all's opinions?
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2011
- Messages
- 2,348
Haha yeah. I had an MRI today on my spine and I was nervous drinking last night. I'm very claustrophobic and dont fit in MRI 's very well. Luckily they put me in an open side one instead of the coffin tube kind. Wasn't too bad, still a tight squeeze but my head was in the open so I was nervous for nothing.
That sounds nice. Well the rain not the dust. We had a bunch of black clouds overhead today but never turned into rain. I was hoping to let the rain water my tomato plants today instead of me.
I sure hope the weather is good Sunday. Fathers day is one of the few days I can easily convince my wife and teenage daughter to go to the mountains with me. My 12 year old always wants to go but she caught Becker fever at an early age.
Last edited:
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- Feb 28, 2003
- Messages
- 19,851
do it the hard way, so you don't have to do it again?
do you use weekly / monthly enzymes to help the flow / tank?
going to to have to look up grease trap - never heard of that for my area...
might be useful to keep a 5 gallon bucket near those lame flow toilets, and dump 5 gallons of hot water all at once down the lines now and then - you can even use shower water while you're doing your thing - partial gray water === no waste
my plumber wants to replace the last 5 feet inside the house and up to 15 feet outside but i'm thinking the kind of digging is insane and it's simpler to do the inside first.
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- May 19, 2012
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- 2,913
#3 all the way
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- Sep 8, 2014
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- Feb 15, 2015
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I got my eagle becker pack in the mail today. It's MASSIVE. Way bigger than my Blackhawk version. I thought there were only two versions of this pack: regular and large. Nope, three versions. There is one is the middle called the ranger. It's only slightly smaller than the larger version. The ranger version has an extra pocket in the inside for a radio and extra padded shoulder straps. Also has the eagle aluminum frame and a hidden tear away panel for "jump capabilities" not really sure what that means. Anyway I would really like the standard smaller version of this pack. If anyone wants to trade let me know. I'm probably just going to sell both my packs and wait for a standard one to pop up on eBay for a good price.
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- May 18, 2015
- Messages
- 5,217
QUOTE="zzyzzogeton, post: 17230891, member: 338122"]Warning - long post...
You know how sometimes people say that they have had a shitty day?
Well, I seem to have had a shitty month.
Right after Memorial Day, I started getting slow toilet gulping with 2 toilets and backflow up one of the shower drains. Checked the septic tank and while time to be pumped (been 5 years), it was not clogged. BUT, when I started checking rod out access ports, the line from the house to the tank was completely full of, well, water and shit. And I noticed that water was running into the tank essentially at a "drip rate".
After a lot of work, I determined that a blockage had occurred near the septic tank where the lines from the house merge near the tank. (Aside - the house is weird - 156 feet long, one room wide for all but the kitchen/master bedroom area in the center. There is a full bath at one end and 90 feet away is the kitchen plumbing and the other two bathrooms, so there are 2 separate lines that merge near the tank.)
After a whole lot more work, I got the blockage cleared using line snakes and hydraulic water pressure.
The blockage is likely the result of the now-mandatory low-flow 1.5 gallon per flush toilets. The lines from the house are the old standard 4" ID lines. The new standard is 3" lines. With 4" lines, low flow flushes and a junction in the pipe, "logs" can be left "high and dry" along the lines and eventually get clogged.
Other than completely ripping out the entire septic system and installing 3" lines AND adding a separate system for each ed of the house to eliminate the junction, the only preventative I have come up with is to not flush the commode until I get ready to take a shower so that the shower water helps flush the poop on down the line.
Okay, so that was 2 weeks ago, so why the "month" reference??
Well, Monday I started getting black water backing up in the tub when letting out a sink full of dish water. I knew that the kitchen sink, shower, tub and bathroom sink ran into a 2" cast iron drain line, separate from the line from the toilet. I had originally found that the kitchen line merged with the toilet line out past the retaining wall when I had to replace the main drain line. Yeah, not knowing any better I replaced the old 4" clay tile segments with 4" PVC. Should have dropped the line to 3" (see above) but I didn't know any better at the time as all work I have ever done on septic involved 4" pipe.
When I replaced the line, I used a clay tile to pvc adapter for tying the kitchen line to the main line. Why dig up perfectly good drain lines if you don't have to? Right?
Well, after working for what seemed like forever, I came to the conclusion that one of the clay tile pipe in the kitchen line had either shifted or collapsed, so I had to start digging a 19" deep by 2 ft wide trench to find the problem. After 2 days of digging in 95ºF heat, I found the problem - it turns out that when the system was installed in 1950, "they" put a damn grease trap in the kitchen drain line, a concrete box WITH A METAL LID. That had collapsed. And allowed the grease trap to fill up with dirt and roots
Now here's the kicker - there is no grease trap on the original house plans. If there had been, I would have known -
a) that there was a grease trap that could be the problem
b) I would have had a basic idea of where to dig
c) would have known there was a grease trap that needed to be cleaned out periodically over the last 67 years.
My mother didn't even know it was there and she was here, albeit a 15 y.o. girl who could not have care less about the plumbing, except that she knew that she wouldn't have to use an outhouse any longer.
So now, I have to excavate the 2 ft by 2 ft by 2 ft concrete box (surrounded by mud made with yucky dishwasher/sink/tub/shower water) that starts about 14" down, and fix the problem.
So my 3 options are -
1 - should I just bridge the gap between the clay tile pipes on either side, eliminating the grease trap
2 - replace the grease trap with a new one and patch the line back together
3 - eliminate the grease trap AND remove the clay tile pipe all together (since I already have half of it at least half exposed) and replace it completely with a new pvc pipe.
1 would be fastest
2 would put back the grease trap to do what it is intended to do (keep grease out of the septic tank, although they are no longer installed in new installations
3 would take the longest with the most work but would eliminate digging up and cleaning the grease trap 1x per year, eliminate the threat of clay tile collapsing, etc.
I know what I THINK I should do, but what are y'all's opinions?[/QUOTE]
#3
You know how sometimes people say that they have had a shitty day?
Well, I seem to have had a shitty month.
Right after Memorial Day, I started getting slow toilet gulping with 2 toilets and backflow up one of the shower drains. Checked the septic tank and while time to be pumped (been 5 years), it was not clogged. BUT, when I started checking rod out access ports, the line from the house to the tank was completely full of, well, water and shit. And I noticed that water was running into the tank essentially at a "drip rate".
After a lot of work, I determined that a blockage had occurred near the septic tank where the lines from the house merge near the tank. (Aside - the house is weird - 156 feet long, one room wide for all but the kitchen/master bedroom area in the center. There is a full bath at one end and 90 feet away is the kitchen plumbing and the other two bathrooms, so there are 2 separate lines that merge near the tank.)
After a whole lot more work, I got the blockage cleared using line snakes and hydraulic water pressure.
The blockage is likely the result of the now-mandatory low-flow 1.5 gallon per flush toilets. The lines from the house are the old standard 4" ID lines. The new standard is 3" lines. With 4" lines, low flow flushes and a junction in the pipe, "logs" can be left "high and dry" along the lines and eventually get clogged.
Other than completely ripping out the entire septic system and installing 3" lines AND adding a separate system for each ed of the house to eliminate the junction, the only preventative I have come up with is to not flush the commode until I get ready to take a shower so that the shower water helps flush the poop on down the line.
Okay, so that was 2 weeks ago, so why the "month" reference??
Well, Monday I started getting black water backing up in the tub when letting out a sink full of dish water. I knew that the kitchen sink, shower, tub and bathroom sink ran into a 2" cast iron drain line, separate from the line from the toilet. I had originally found that the kitchen line merged with the toilet line out past the retaining wall when I had to replace the main drain line. Yeah, not knowing any better I replaced the old 4" clay tile segments with 4" PVC. Should have dropped the line to 3" (see above) but I didn't know any better at the time as all work I have ever done on septic involved 4" pipe.
When I replaced the line, I used a clay tile to pvc adapter for tying the kitchen line to the main line. Why dig up perfectly good drain lines if you don't have to? Right?
Well, after working for what seemed like forever, I came to the conclusion that one of the clay tile pipe in the kitchen line had either shifted or collapsed, so I had to start digging a 19" deep by 2 ft wide trench to find the problem. After 2 days of digging in 95ºF heat, I found the problem - it turns out that when the system was installed in 1950, "they" put a damn grease trap in the kitchen drain line, a concrete box WITH A METAL LID. That had collapsed. And allowed the grease trap to fill up with dirt and roots
Now here's the kicker - there is no grease trap on the original house plans. If there had been, I would have known -
a) that there was a grease trap that could be the problem
b) I would have had a basic idea of where to dig
c) would have known there was a grease trap that needed to be cleaned out periodically over the last 67 years.
My mother didn't even know it was there and she was here, albeit a 15 y.o. girl who could not have care less about the plumbing, except that she knew that she wouldn't have to use an outhouse any longer.
So now, I have to excavate the 2 ft by 2 ft by 2 ft concrete box (surrounded by mud made with yucky dishwasher/sink/tub/shower water) that starts about 14" down, and fix the problem.
So my 3 options are -
1 - should I just bridge the gap between the clay tile pipes on either side, eliminating the grease trap
2 - replace the grease trap with a new one and patch the line back together
3 - eliminate the grease trap AND remove the clay tile pipe all together (since I already have half of it at least half exposed) and replace it completely with a new pvc pipe.
1 would be fastest
2 would put back the grease trap to do what it is intended to do (keep grease out of the septic tank, although they are no longer installed in new installations
3 would take the longest with the most work but would eliminate digging up and cleaning the grease trap 1x per year, eliminate the threat of clay tile collapsing, etc.
I know what I THINK I should do, but what are y'all's opinions?[/QUOTE]
#3
Seen a couple on the bay 10mins ago.
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- Feb 15, 2015
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- 1,369
The ones on eBay are so beyond over priced.
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- Dec 9, 2013
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Unless you are frying on an almost daily basis, I'd forgo the grease trap. And as long as I don't have to drive up and help, I say #3.
And until then, I'd probably fill the tub while I was handling my business and let it drain when I flushed rather than letting it sit until I showered.
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Bought this saw called a Corona 20 bucks at Lowes I was there and it was there so I bought it. Wow was I impressed. 15 minutes later green eastern cedar stump is cut almost flush. Cuts on the pull comfy handle no binding. Pulled its way thru the stump.
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- Jan 4, 2012
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Pull saws are great. And that seems like a good deal for $20!Bought this saw called a Corona 20 bucks at Lowes I was there and it was there so I bought it. Wow was I impressed. 15 minutes later green eastern cedar stump is cut almost flush. Cuts on the pull comfy handle no binding. Pulled its way thru the stump.
Feeling a bit sore today. Took delivery of three skids of guidebooks last night. There were 140 boxes and each box weighed 40 lbs. Hand to hand carry each box to the basement. Good workout, but not one I'm looking to repeat anytime soon.
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- May 18, 2015
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QUOTE="gmoneyluv, post: 17233476, member: 309826"]Pull saws are great. And that seems like a good deal for $20!
Feeling a bit sore today. Took delivery of three skids of guidebooks last night. There were 140 boxes and each box weighed 40 lbs. Hand to hand carry each box to the basement. Good workout, but not one I'm looking to repeat anytime soon.[/QUOTE]
5,600lbs So you carried a pickup truck to your basement lol. Wouldn't have hurt so much if it was ammo cans.
Feeling a bit sore today. Took delivery of three skids of guidebooks last night. There were 140 boxes and each box weighed 40 lbs. Hand to hand carry each box to the basement. Good workout, but not one I'm looking to repeat anytime soon.[/QUOTE]
5,600lbs So you carried a pickup truck to your basement lol. Wouldn't have hurt so much if it was ammo cans.
KingMC
The Pun-isher
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I remember the good ol' days where I worked for a used book seller, I used to move over 5 tons of books a day putting them up for sale, stayed in decent shape during that time. No stairs, thankfully, that would have sucked.
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- Feb 17, 2013
- Messages
- 6,168
More on the septic tank saga.
I decided to go ahead and go with option #3, remove the grease trap permanently and replace the clay tile pipe section with pvc.
Well, best laid plans and all that..... Commenced to digging. Dug all day off and on, yesterday. I could dig for about 30 to 45 minutes and then I'd have to go inside to cool off and rehydrate even more than I was doing while digging.
First, I dug down stream 5 feet to get to where the pipe joins the primary line. Got that done. So I started going up stream from the grease trap. Went less than a foot and found that the line makes a 90 degree turn and heads directly for the retaining wall between the various drain lines and the house. I had figured that the line went west for 4 to 5 feet before turning to head directly at the common drain line for the kitchen sink/washing machine/shower/tub/bathroom sink drain.
The retaining wall that was built OVER the drain line a year or so after the house was built. Yeah, an 8 inch thick concrete wall that the drain pipe runs under. Obviously, my grandfather wasn't thinking about future maintenance when he had all this work done back in 1950-51.
The devil in the details is I found that there is a 2 foot wide "blob" of concrete right over the pipe attached to the retaining walls, apparently to provide anti-tilt stability.
There is no way in @#% I am going to be able to dig a 2 foot wide trench (for my "wide" ass to fit in while working under nearly 3 feet of concrete sticking nearly 34 inches into the ground so that I can replace the pipe.
Oh, yeah, the pipe - the outlet pipe for the grease trap was completely collapsed for 3 feet and plugged solid with mud, so who knows how long the water has jest been dispersing by leaking out through the holes rotted in the grease trap's metal walls.
SO, I go OK, I'll just hook onto the outlet pipe with a clay-to-pvc adapter.
Uh, nope. That pipe was open for the first 6 inches and then it was solid packed blackish-grey oozey goop. I was able t force a snake up the line for 18 inches, with a LOT of effort. But that was as far as I could ram it up the line. It came back totally covers with big blobs of the goop.
Put a can under the drain to catch any water passing through the line from the house end to see how fast water would seep through the goop, trying to get a feel for how deep the crap was. Ran water in the tub until it backed up and filled the tub about 2 inches.
Went back outside and nothing was dripping out. 1/2 hour later, and only a teaspoon of water had dripped into the can. Granted, some probably evaporated in the 97ºF heat, but there should have been more. Took an hour for the tub to drain. Still not much in the can. So, the water is slowly going some where, but who knows where.
So the next step is I gotta get a real plumber out here to re-route the 2" auxiliary drain line just outside the house and connect it to the 4" main line from the commode.
Since the plumbers are charging $150 to $175 per hour for jobs out in the rural areas, I guess that means I need to dig out a trench for them before they get here. I can't see paying someone $300 to $400 to dig a hole.
I decided to go ahead and go with option #3, remove the grease trap permanently and replace the clay tile pipe section with pvc.
Well, best laid plans and all that..... Commenced to digging. Dug all day off and on, yesterday. I could dig for about 30 to 45 minutes and then I'd have to go inside to cool off and rehydrate even more than I was doing while digging.
First, I dug down stream 5 feet to get to where the pipe joins the primary line. Got that done. So I started going up stream from the grease trap. Went less than a foot and found that the line makes a 90 degree turn and heads directly for the retaining wall between the various drain lines and the house. I had figured that the line went west for 4 to 5 feet before turning to head directly at the common drain line for the kitchen sink/washing machine/shower/tub/bathroom sink drain.
The retaining wall that was built OVER the drain line a year or so after the house was built. Yeah, an 8 inch thick concrete wall that the drain pipe runs under. Obviously, my grandfather wasn't thinking about future maintenance when he had all this work done back in 1950-51.
The devil in the details is I found that there is a 2 foot wide "blob" of concrete right over the pipe attached to the retaining walls, apparently to provide anti-tilt stability.
There is no way in @#% I am going to be able to dig a 2 foot wide trench (for my "wide" ass to fit in while working under nearly 3 feet of concrete sticking nearly 34 inches into the ground so that I can replace the pipe.
Oh, yeah, the pipe - the outlet pipe for the grease trap was completely collapsed for 3 feet and plugged solid with mud, so who knows how long the water has jest been dispersing by leaking out through the holes rotted in the grease trap's metal walls.
SO, I go OK, I'll just hook onto the outlet pipe with a clay-to-pvc adapter.
Uh, nope. That pipe was open for the first 6 inches and then it was solid packed blackish-grey oozey goop. I was able t force a snake up the line for 18 inches, with a LOT of effort. But that was as far as I could ram it up the line. It came back totally covers with big blobs of the goop.
Put a can under the drain to catch any water passing through the line from the house end to see how fast water would seep through the goop, trying to get a feel for how deep the crap was. Ran water in the tub until it backed up and filled the tub about 2 inches.
Went back outside and nothing was dripping out. 1/2 hour later, and only a teaspoon of water had dripped into the can. Granted, some probably evaporated in the 97ºF heat, but there should have been more. Took an hour for the tub to drain. Still not much in the can. So, the water is slowly going some where, but who knows where.
So the next step is I gotta get a real plumber out here to re-route the 2" auxiliary drain line just outside the house and connect it to the 4" main line from the commode.
Since the plumbers are charging $150 to $175 per hour for jobs out in the rural areas, I guess that means I need to dig out a trench for them before they get here. I can't see paying someone $300 to $400 to dig a hole.
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